AMD's response to Titan?

[lavaheadache]

how do you bring notice that the 9800 gtx was a rebrand yet fail to know that the 3870 was too? Maybe not a rebrand, but a redo of the hd2900 chip

 

[Vesku]

All GF gpus since the 8800gtx, with the exception of the 9800gtx rebrand, were built at around 500mm^2; The gtx 280 is the largest nvidia gpu at 570mm^2, and it was released when all AMD had was the scrubby hd3870, which couldn't even outperform nvidia's last gen.

So ... yeah...

Except again, 28nm prices changed it all. They knew it would get more expensive not less.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Even if AMD is going to hold out on a refresh (which I think is unlikely), it's highly unlikely that Nvidia will.

They need to refresh their product stack to gain interest and acquire new sales, it works the same way as it does with Intel.

Intel could have sat on the original Core i series and remained competitive with AMD, but they aren't really competing with AMD they're competing with their user base, attempting to get people who already own their stuff to upgrade - even if they don't need to.

 

[-Slacker-]

how do you bring notice that the 9800 gtx was a rebrand yet fail to know that the 3870 was too?

How do I fail to know? Same way people fail to know things in general ... not sure why that makes you curious though.

...Wait ... was I supposed to mention that the 3870 was a rebrand? ... The hell?...

More importantly, what does it have to do with the discussion above, anyway? The point I made was that Nvidia had an incentive to build a huge die gpu even though there was no pressure from AMD's top card, which was slower than nvidia's last gen.

Maybe not a rebrand, but a redo of the hd2900 chip

What does it mater?

Except again, 28nm prices changed it all. They knew it would get more expensive not less.

Not that I'm disagreeing but, you know, unless you have access to price charts from then and now, we can't speculate much on any of the two manufacturer's ability and intent to refresh their lineup one these kinds of estimates ... it's not really enough to say that 28nm is more expensive now than 55nm was then, because there are other factors that come into play, like AMD putting more pressure on nvidia's current high end, or the fact that nvidia still has a lot of room to increase the die size even below 500mm^2. It doesn't have to be 575mm like the gtx 280.

 

[lavaheadache]

My point was that you were implying that the 3870 was some kind of completion to the 280. The 3870 was reasonably competitive to the 8800gt which was only slower than the 8800 GTX by 10% or so.

What's awesome is that it seems as though we have yet another hot head in the forums ready to bark at everyone.

 

[Vesku]

Not that I'm disagreeing but, you know, unless you have access to price charts from then and now, we can't speculate much on any of the two manufacturer's ability and intent to refresh their lineup one these kinds of estimates ... it's not really enough to say that 28nm is more expensive now than 55nm was then, because there are other factors that come into play, like AMD putting more pressure on nvidia's current high end, or the fact that nvidia still has a lot of room to increase the die size even below 500mm^2. It doesn't have to be 575mm like the gtx 280.

Nvidia did a PR blitz about it: http://www.extremetech.com/computin...y-with-tsmc-claims-22nm-essentially-worthless

No one challenged their pricing graphs, I doubt they'd outright lie about such a thing when browbeating their supplier.

AMD got in some jabs saying their GCN architecture was better for this higher wafer price trend.

 

[-Slacker-]

My point was that you were implying that the 3870 was some kind of completion to the 280. The 3870 was reasonably competitive to the 8800gt which was only slower than the 8800 GTX by 10% or so.

Then you need to re-read my post again, and then read vesku's post, to which I was replying. I brought up the 3870 as a counter argument for his assertion that one of the reasons nvidia wouldn't make a large die refresh is because they aren't pressured by amd's offering or, more to the point, not only that the 3870 wasn't supposed to compete with the gtx 280, but it barely competed with the 9800gtx+, and nvidia still released the largest die gpu yet.

What's awesome is that it seems as though we have yet another hot head in the forums ready to bark at everyone.

A hothead is someone who "barks" at people for no good reason. If you want people to be polite toward you, make an effort and exercise some reading comprehension before you get all confrontational, or at least don't interpret the exact opposite of what they say, like you did in the above paragraph.

Nvidia did a PR blitz about it: http://www.extremetech.com/computing...ally-worthless

No one challenged their pricing graphs, I doubt they'd outright lie about such a thing when browbeating their supplier.

AMD got in some jabs saying their GCN architecture was better for this higher wafer price trend.

That's an interesting read. It does sound like tsmc's 28nm output is kind of screwed.

 

[psolord]

Rumor has it that AMD will respond to Titian with an Assian!

Market analysts afraid that it will only be shipped in China.

 

[Will Robinson]

Ggrrrr...its T I T A N please use the correct spelling.
3870 wasn't a "re do" of 2900XT.
2900XT had a 512bit ringbus memory subsystem and used a different architecture to 3870.

 

[Dribble]

Not only that but some think Nvidia had piles of these on the market. For all we know there were a couple thousand or only hundreds.

They've got loads of chips, thing is titan is the poor man's version - nvidia can make much more money selling them as tesla or quadro cards. It's just there to give nvidia the all important top card which drives sales of lesser cards. So they set price really high and sell enough to fill that niche but keep most for the higher margin cards (not that I expect margin on titan's is exactly low).

I really hope AMD do pull out something as prices are this high due to lack of competition but seems unlikely. AMD corporate doesn't seem to be focusing on high end graphics.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Not only that but some think Nvidia had piles of these on the market. For all we know there were a couple thousand or only hundreds.

I dont think Denmark got half the batch. I can buy the first 1000 Titan cards in here alone.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

They have responded they did a press Q&A and when asked what their response would be, they said that Titan wasn't a threat to their line up, or some such.

Basically they have nothing to retaliate with and their response is to downplay losing the performance crown. Usually I would not have brought this up but AMDs teams answers to the press questions was pretty diabolical they need to be shown up for their poor behavior and lack of honesty.

 

[jacktesterson]

So AMD has nothing to counter the GTX Titian?

Its a pointless market. Literally 0.5% of there GPU Market.

Unless they have something on the back burner now to do this, it makes no sense.

Especially since you can buy THREE 7970's for the same price that will smoke a Titan.

 

[jacktesterson]

You do realize that AMD is stretched to the limit right now? Yes, they have the better consumer card at the moment, but it's virtually a miracle for them. Nvidia, on the other hand, had this chip in development for years and only now just released it for consumers.

Sorry, but AMD is floating by at the moment. IMO, AMD is better off folding and selling their GPU department to a company with the resources to make something truly work.

You honestly don't know what your talking about. Your stating what many others assume. Show us any proof of your claims - that AMD is better off folding the GPU department.

You know what thought did? Thought wanted to fart but shat himself. He thought he had to fart.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Pointless market?

Just because Nvidia priced it high doesn't change the fact that AMD is well behind in performance on 28nm right now.

What's that doing for mindshare?

Prior to Titan:

 

[lavaheadache]

Ggrrrr...its T I T A N please use the correct spelling.
3870 wasn't a "re do" of 2900XT.
2900XT had a 512bit ringbus memory subsystem and used a different architecture to 3870.

http://firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_rv670_performance_preview/page2.asp

The RV670 GPU

At the heart of the Radeon HD 3850 and 3870 lies AMD’s brand new RV670 GPU. RV670 is built largely on the R600 GPU used today in the Radeon HD 2900 XT, the chip features 320 stream processors, just like R600, only it has been updated to include support for UVD, providing full HD decode for H.264 and VC-1. RV670 has also been updated to support DirectX 10.1 and PCI Express 2.0.


http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2007/11/30/rv670_amd_ati_radeon_hd_3870/4

RV670 - almost all of R600 (and more) at half the size...
The Radeon HD 3800-series is based on AMD’s RV670 graphics processor. The architecture behind this chip is largely the same as the one behind the R600 chip for which it is replacing, but that’s not to say there haven’t been some changes made.

Want me to find more for you? There is plenty more info around the web just like that to back up the claim

 

[Creig]

AMD's response to Titan?

When they found out the MSRP it probably went something along the lines of....



BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[lavaheadache]

When they found out the MSRP it probably went something along the lines of....



BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

lol. No kidding. The Titan is awesome but I'm starting to have a bit of buyers remorse. If I sell it I can put a decent set of aftermarket rims on my Hoopdee.

 

[Grooveriding]

I'm sure AMD would like to have their own $1000 card that they are making somewhere in the realm of $750 a piece in profit off of. Nvidia already had this chip prepped and ready as they always do, but have shifted how they deal with GeForce from using their big compute chip for the mainstream flagship, to using it for a supposed 'boutique' card and charging massive premiums on it.

At the $1000 price they're not going to move tons of them, but since they already have it available, obviously they will use it. AMD has Tahiti and that is it, it performs well and is hugely less costly than the Titan. Titan is targeting a pretty small niche.

I don't know, it's only a week after the official launch and I can find them in stock every day. It's not like they're flying off the shelves. Another month or so and they'll be piles of them around and eventually the price will start to drop.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

At which point once Titan doesn't move, they'll release either a GK114 780 or more likely imo a GK110 780 without the DP, custom cooler, and $300 name.

Nvidia is just ahead of the curve, a curve which they created to milk maximum profits from. $1000 Titan uncontested, $700-800 GK110 without DP would also be uncontested, even a cut SMX version will be above the GHz but at that point they'll be close enough performance wise that the card will be contested as in $500 instead of $600.

 

[Silverforce11]

I cant see many gamers willing to folk out that much $$ for a gpu.. unless they are old with a good job and single, without a wife to say "NO!!".

 

[Rvenger]

lol. No kidding. The Titan is awesome but I'm starting to have a bit of buyers remorse. If I sell it I can put a decent set of aftermarket rims AND TIRES on my Hoopdee.

 

[Rvenger]

At which point once Titan doesn't move, they'll release either a GK114 780 or more likely imo a GK110 780 without the DP, custom cooler, and $300 name.

Nvidia is just ahead of the curve, a curve which they created to milk maximum profits from. $1000 Titan uncontested, $700-800 GK110 without DP would also be uncontested, even a cut SMX version will be above the GHz but at that point they'll be close enough performance wise that the card will be contested as in $500 instead of $600.

The 7970 would perform better if it had 48 ROPS. I really think its ROP limited at this point but we will see what the memory rewrite does. I think another 10% can be eeked out.

 

[Face2Face]

lol. No kidding. The Titan is awesome but I'm starting to have a bit of buyers remorse. If I sell it I can put a decent set of aftermarket rims on my Hoopdee.

Daddy like

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/Exotic118-2/370Z/Nissan-370Z_V710.jpg

 

[x3sphere]

Its a pointless market. Literally 0.5% of there GPU Market.

Unless they have something on the back burner now to do this, it makes no sense.

Especially since you can buy THREE 7970's for the same price that will smoke a Titan.

Don't know if I'm a minority but I have been with AMD for the past 5 years and recently got a Titan. Even though it gets more raw frames, 3x7970 stutters quite a bit in Crysis 3 at 2560x1600, yet perfectly playable and super smooth on the Titan (almost always a locked 30 with SMAA, only dips below that with heavy DoF during cutscenes). A 7970 clocked at 1.1Ghz was not playable at the same settings, and I'm only running the Titan stock.

If AMD would've countered the Titan with a $800 card I probably would have gotten it. Nvidia will keep me as a customer for awhile from this point forward if they keep holding the single GPU crown.