AMD's Gaming Evolved snags FarCry3

[3DVagabond]

I never said such a thing I have said:

Proprietary may offer division, fragmentation and chaos but it also may bring innovation, choice and improved gaming experiences, which hopefully creates awareness so the important players may forge standards to mature so many more gamers may enjoy.

The key is the view is actually realistic and balanced.

I don't think there's any need to speak in hypotheticals. There's plenty on the record to go by. Unfortunately there isn't anything that I can think of that's happened to lead us to the positives you are listing as possibilities.

It has divided and fragmented because it's been implemented merely to differentiate between the two companies products. I haven't seen/heard of anything new coming from PhysX. It's been just a way of accomplishing the same effects that can be done on both company's products but limiting them to only one so they can claim they are better. What's realistic is what has actually happened and what has happened is in no way created balance. and that's not the purpose. It's purpose is to cut out the competition to give people a reason not to buy their products.

 

[f1sherman]

This is about Borderlands 2, isn't it?
Nvidia not handing out free stuff, when really they should, right?
Well I'd be pissed too, if I had AMD gpu.

Hybrid PhysX was never supported because the heck is NV suppose to do when they find bug on AMD?
Hand out moar free stuff and fix it for them? Too much trouble, not enough profit.

When buying GPU, everyone knew full well what he was getting.
If someone is going to argue that PhysX is just a gimmick, more power to him. Just set it to Low, and you won't be missing out on anything.
It's still a damn good game. One notch bellow Alan Wake, and one above Max Payne 3 in my book.

Back to BL2. Next station Metro: Last Light

 

[SirPauly]

Unfortunately there isn't anything that I can think of that's happened to lead us to the positives you are listing as possibilities.

Who is us?

GPU Physics isn't innovative is like saying GPU Processing isn't innovative! Choice is not a positive at all. Trying to improve the gaming experience and immersion isn't a positive -- nothing good at all.

It's just division, fragmentation and chaos? Only one side of the coin? Noticed you didn't disagree with me there!

 

[railven]

Hybrid PhysX was never supported because the heck is NV suppose to do when they find bug on AMD?
Hand out moar free stuff and fix it for them? Too much trouble, not enough profit.

Question: what is their to support? From what I've experienced as a Hybrid user, I get zero penalty compared to someone who uses just one card, and I get the same eye candy.

The only bugs found so far were intentionally introduced by nVidia to divert the use of Hybrid systems, which is rather low. It's so easy now to get Hybrid PhysX working that I can't think of any reason for nVidia not to embrace and thus give PhysX more support (and directly gain a sale or two from users like me who are in the process of upgrading their 9800 GTX+.)

PhysX Hybrid worked day 1 for BL2.

 

[Spjut]

Nvidia could let dedicated physX cards run in combination with AMD GPUs and just put a sign that says "Compatibility only guaranteed with other Nvidia GPUs", problem solved.

Very cheap to prevent it from working together with AMD GPUs, people actually did pay for their physX capable Nvidia cards.

I'd hack the drivers and use my old 8800GT if it weren't broke. Others who have had Nvidia and now upgrade could also put use those cards for physX.

 

[SirPauly]

NV has shown they will take every opportunity to lock out features on competing hardware, never mind the end user. Batman, Hawx etc. are proof of this. And you chose to ignore one thing, there is NO technical reason that a person should not be allowed to run PhysX on a system with an AMD card. People do it all the time with hacks, what NV is doing is quite honestly anti competitive and probably violates anti trust laws. When you buy an Nvidia card one of the advertised features is PhysX, but I don't recall seeing anywhere on the box that says I can only use it in the absence of an AMD video card.

Personally would like to see nVidia rethink this and spend the extra resources considering it still is a nVidia GPU after all. Have said this countless times but nVidia has offered they don't desire to spend resources on mix vendors with driver support. It's their company -- their decision. Don't agree with it but I'm not full of vile, venom and emotion over it.

If an AMD user truly desired to have AMD PhysX hybrid mode - there are ways.

And now you're saying PhysX is only for modest enhancements?

I said GPU Physics to me encompass three aspects: fidelity, realism and game-play -- offered game-play enhancements have been modest -- offered clearly why they have been.

I thought you said you were a realist?

Indeed! I don't allow idealism to be the enemy of good.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I really don't' see it as a big deal. Okay, so physx gives the nvidia brand some value for users - yet we have been getting about 1 title per year that utilizes it, with differeng results. Sometimes the performance hit for physx is super high, and then at other times the effects are either non existant (metro 2033) or ridiciulous (mafia 2).

It does give value to nvidia for some users, that is why nvidia wants to keep it for themselves. I don't see it as a big deal, really because of the reasons outlined above - lack of titles, mixed results, sometimes a ridiculous performance hit for use. Those who like it can use it, but its not something that would weigh on a purchasing decision for me. At least, more titles need to utilize it, the rate of titles using it is pretty anemic.

Most titles are using CPU physics anyway, with most of them using havoc. Unlike 6 years ago there really isn't a need to keep phsics off the cpu, the cpu has a TON of power and can chew through that stuff like it's nothing these days. The only thing that could change this is maybe UE3? If that has more physx use that could be a win for nvidia - but on the other hand, it IS meant to be cross platform. A lot of time devs won't bother with phsyx on multiplatform titles, although there are exceptions.

I agree, it was not a big deal. Like I said, I think the population of Radeon + Nvidia for Physx users was probably pretty small. But, there were still gamers who bought Nvidia cards for that reason. I just think the principle of it is the thing, really. Like I said, could you imagine AMD doing something like that if the driver detected an Intel chipset? Obviously a lot more people would be hit with something like that. But that is what Nvidia did, the only reason there wasn't much uproar about it is because there weren't a lot of gamers with that combo, and Physx so far has been pretty quiet, very few games actually use it for anything.

 

[NIGELG]

Nvidia could let dedicated physX cards run in combination with AMD GPUs and just put a sign that says "Compatibility only guaranteed with other Nvidia GPUs", problem solved.

Very cheap to prevent it from working together with AMD GPUs, people actually did pay for their physX capable Nvidia cards.

I'd hack the drivers and use my old 8800GT if it weren't broke. Others who have had Nvidia and now upgrade could also put use those cards for physX.

For those AMD owners who wanted the hassle of getting the ridiculous looking effects in games like Mafia 2 and Alice this would have been a good solution.A good old disclaimer by Nvidia.

The truth is Nvidia didn't want to do it this way.Who really knows why?But they will never promote GPU physics the way they are doing it.And GPU physics doesn't yet look 'natural' or 'realistic' to me.

It's better to have nothing than to have crap.

 

[railven]

Nvidia could let dedicated physX cards run in combination with AMD GPUs and just put a sign that says "Compatibility only guaranteed with other Nvidia GPUs", problem solved.

Very cheap to prevent it from working together with AMD GPUs, people actually did pay for their physX capable Nvidia cards.

I'd hack the drivers and use my old 8800GT if it weren't broke. Others who have had Nvidia and now upgrade could also put use those cards for physX.

Exactly. They don't even have to show any support, but going out of their way to lock it, and in other instances introduce bugs, that's just dirty.

The 9800 GTX+ my GF upgraded from was sitting in a closet until I read about Hybrid setups. Since then I've pretty much used it for all the PhysX games that come around with zero problems (however, BL2 is the first one to show the 9800 GTX+'s age. Going to use the GTX 460 she upgraded from and finally retire the 9800 GTX+ for good.)

 

[SirPauly]

Or stops supporting 3D gaming or something?

I seem to recall an in-game Stereo 3d for Deus EX that only supported AMD cards. Ideally, it didn't help all gamers, some division and fragmentation but there was a lot of good: Amd customers could enjoy it, commitment from AMD on Stereo 3d and HD3d -- awareness for 3d stereo and trying to push it forward.

 

[SirPauly]

It's better to have nothing than to have crap.

IQ tastes and tolerances are subjective after all.

 

[f1sherman]

Question: what is their to support? From what I've experienced as a Hybrid user, I get zero penalty compared to someone who uses just one card, and I get the same eye candy.

Support, as an official support ensuring that the product you bought works as intended. Means you can bug them, and they have to help you

What you're describing is "if it works it works, if not - tough luck".
But yeah I am aware that sooner or later savvy users manage to get hybrid PhysX working on particular title.

So it's not that NV is actively pursuing that Hybrid doesn't work. It's just that they don't officially support it.

 

[NIGELG]

I seem to recall an in-game Stereo 3d for Deus EX that only supported AMD cards.

If AMD did that then it's a dick move just like GPU PhysX. I don't condone that behaviour from either company.

Have you got a link for this 3D on AMD cards only claim?

 

[railven]

Support, as an official support ensuring that the product you bought works as intended. Means you can bug them, and they have to help you

What you're describing is "if it works it works, if not - tough luck".
But yeah I am aware that sooner or later savvy users manage to get hybrid PhysX working on particular title.

So it's not that NV is actively pursuing that Hybrid doesn't work. It's just that they don't officially support it.

Again, as you said in your closer - what is there to support? If the card doesn't work with AMD products, it wasn't intended to. Support ends.

They don't have to block it. They themselves proved it works when they gaffed and released the Beta drivers without the lock.

Oh wells, just a stupid move in my opinion, it would have been a good move. Hell, even sell PhysX PPU for the specific purpose of offloading, sounds like a winner.

 

[SirPauly]

Have you got a link for this 3D on AMD cards only claim?

http://3dvision-blog.com/5917-the-game-deus-ex-human-revolution-and-its-stereo-3d-support/

So what can you do if you are one of the gamers with a stereoscopic 3D capable computer, but are left out by the game’s native AMD HD3D only support? Well, you need to either play the game in 2D mode or do some things in order to make it somewhat playable in stereo 3D mode.

Instead of offering vile, venom, emotion, pointing the dreaded finger at AMD -- simply offered constructive views towards nVidia to work with the developers to improve the 3d stereo experience for 3dvision in Deus EX.

I thought it was still good to see native 3d stereo support from AMD even though I had 3d vision. In time, with nVidia working with the developers of Deus EX, 3d stereo improved for nVidia owners with an excellent rating.

 

[NIGELG]

http://3dvision-blog.com/5917-the-game-deus-ex-human-revolution-and-its-stereo-3d-support/



Instead of offering vile, venom, emotion, pointing the dreaded finger at AMD -- simply offered constructive views towards nVidia to work with the developers to improve the 3d stereo experience for 3dvision in Deus EX.

I thought it was still good to see native 3d stereo support from AMD even though I had 3d vision. In time, with nVidia working with the developers of Deus EX, 3d stereo improved for nVidia owners with an excellent rating.

After years of interacting with you I think you will put up with any thing these companies dish out to you....especially Nvidia.

Farcry 3 is a game I'm looking forward to being a true sequel to Farcry and I hope it runs and looks good for all PC gamers.

 

[SirPauly]

After years of interacting with you I think you will put up with any thing these companies dish out to you....especially Nvidia.

They're just video cards and GPU's. Hopefully they both continue to work hard, innovate and dish out!

 

[thilanliyan]

I would venture to say that if Nvidia were to make Physx more open but still require a dedicated PPU if not using a Nvidia GPU, then more developers would implement PhysX in their games

I absolutely agree with you on this.

But disagree with this:

Nvidia would make more money of the increased sales of weaker cards as PPUs rather than the occasional choice of a larger GPU because someone wanted to specifically be able to used PhysX effects in one of the rare PhysX games.

If nVidia thought they could make MORE money from the situation you describe, they would have done it. It is in their interest to keep PhysX locked to their cards...it is a "feature" they can advertise (and in turn it is something we all can argue about lol), and it assures that most people wanting PhysX will buy not just a low end nVidia card, but something higher end.

 

[Red Hawk]

I seem to recall an in-game Stereo 3d for Deus EX that only supported AMD cards. Ideally, it didn't help all gamers, some division and fragmentation but there was a lot of good: Amd customers could enjoy it, commitment from AMD on Stereo 3d and HD3d -- awareness for 3d stereo and trying to push it forward.

Initially Deus Ex only supported Eyefinity and AMD's HD3D, yes. After a few months though they added support for Nvidia 3D Surround.

If nVidia thought they could make MORE money from the situation you describe, they would have done it. It is in their interest to keep PhysX locked to their cards...it is a "feature" they can advertise (and in turn it is something we all can argue about lol), and it assures that most people wanting PhysX will buy not just a low end nVidia card, but something higher end.

It doesn't necessarily have to be about making money. Nvidia could very well just be locking AMD out so that they cut into AMD's profits that much.

 

[SirPauly]

PhysXInfo.com: What do you think about Hybrid PhysX? Isn’t it for good?

Rev Lebaredian: Good at what cost?

Supporting it would be a huge amount of QA for us, and it would be weird too – if we’ll find a bug in AMD’s drivers, what will we do?

Ashu Rege: For the foreseeable future we will not supporting it officially. If it works- it works, if some guys can figure out how to make it work – great for them.

http://physxinfo.com/news/6419/exclusive-nvidia-talks-present-and-future-of-physx-technology/

Ideally, would like to see nVidia rethink this based on it still is a nVidia GPU.

 

[thilanliyan]

Nvidia could very well just be locking AMD out so that they cut into AMD's profits that much.

If someone was considering buying an AMD card, but is instead convinced to buy an nVidia card, well then they made more money right there and cut into AMD's proft. It is definitely about money...it is a publicly traded company after all.

 

[Red Hawk]

http://physxinfo.com/news/6419/exclusive-nvidia-talks-present-and-future-of-physx-technology/

Ideally, would like to see nVidia rethink this based on it still is a nVidia GPU.

Blatant dishonesty. Fun fact -- there is a non-GPU accelerated version of PhysX that a lot more games use, which Nvidia supports regardless of the platform. If support was really a problem, that would not be happening. They are also lying about it being "great for people" if they figure out how to make it work. Nvidia actively prevents AMD cards from being used in hybrid PhysX. WHen that lockout is hacked, hybrid PhysX works great. If they don't want to make the effort to support it, fine. Just don't block it and let users figure out how to make it work. But these statements combined with the reality of what Nvidia does to prevent hybrid PhysX makes it seem like Nvidia is lying through their teeth on this one.

 

[Lonbjerg]

In the world of technology, proprietary standards generally fail. It takes industry wide standardization for a new innovative technology to truly take off.

- VHS

Google: BetaMax...

The inferior solution won...

 

[railven]

Blatant dishonesty. Fun fact -- there is a non-GPU accelerated version of PhysX that a lot more games use, which Nvidia supports regardless of the platform. If support was really a problem, that would not be happening. They are also lying about it being "great for people" if they figure out how to make it work. Nvidia actively prevents AMD cards from being used in hybrid PhysX. WHen that lockout is hacked, hybrid PhysX works great. If they don't want to make the effort to support it, fine. Just don't block it and let users figure out how to make it work. But these statements combined with the reality of what Nvidia does to prevent hybrid PhysX makes it seem like Nvidia is lying through their teeth on this one.

nVidia went on record saying it *wouldn't* work and then they gaffed and released a Beta driver without the lock which made that statement a flat out lie.

They are intentionally blocking it and have gone through the trouble of adding bugs (such as reverse gravity.)

Google: BetaMax...

The inferior solution won...

I dunno, if you argue solely on IQ, then yes, but VHS had more time for record, was cheaper, wasn't as restrictive as BetaMax to buyers, and had better audio (if I recall correctly.)

 

[Final8ty]

Google: BetaMax...

The inferior solution won...

The point was about industry wide standardization, which one was better was not the point.
And it was said that VHS had the most porn which is what im told helped VHS win.