AMD X2 6400+ F3 Black edition max multi is stock?

[taltamir]

So I got myself a drop in replacement upgrade for a processor... AMD X2 6400+ windsor F3 Black edition 3.2ghz.. I figured I will run it in stock, maybe up the multiplier from 16 to 17 or 18 with a good heatsink...

Well, I got it and tried it with my stock HS/Fan from my previous CPU, an X2 3800+ windsor F2 at 2.0ghz (10x multiplier). I had to downclock it to multiplier 14x 2.8ghz for it to be stable then, with 55c idle and 67c load...

Pretty horrible.. but I guess thats why they didn't include a fan, because you have to run it with a quality fan... no problems then, I ordered me a nice Zalman CNPS 9500 AM2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...pk=zalman%2b9500%2bam2

With this HS/Fan I can run it at stock, 3.2 ghz, and it gets 44c idle 55c load... pretty high, but much better.

But one things bothers me. It seems like the multiplier does not go beyond 16x, which is what it is set to as stock. What the hell kind of black edition processor IS this where the max multiplier is the stock multiplier? ALL the AMD processors can have their multiplier reduced, the whole point of black edition is increasing the multiplier rather then the FSB.

Is this possibly the fault of my motherboard? or is the 6400+ BE a huge ripoff? I should have probably gotten a brisbane black edition, or better, swapped my motherboard and gotten a C2D...



EDIT: The verdict it is... the Black Edition X2 6400+ does not have an unlocked multiplier like OTHER black edition AMD processors... Confusing naming schemes are apperantly not limited to nVidia (with the 8800WTF)

 

[j0j081]

the interesting thing is there is actually a new 6400+ on newegg that comes with a fan like the regular cpus and is not called a black edition. I wonder if the 6400+ BE was a screwup to begin with. check into the mobo possibly being the problem though, what kinda do you have?

Update: read this thread all the way to the bottom. apparently it is a bios issue.

 

[taltamir]

Read what thread?

Anyways I have an ASUS M2N-E. Which is based on nforce 570 ultra

 

[j0j081]

oops I forgot to post the link lmao. can't find it again now. anyway basically it said some of the 6400+ allow you to raise the multiplier above 16 as long as the board permits it. another person in the same thread though contradicted that so who knows.

 

[taltamir]

so I should be bitching at asus then?

ok... gotcha.. I will try asking them about it... doubt I will get a useful response considering my last correspondence with them.

 

[j0j081]

yeah I am trying to decide between that processor and the 6000+. not sure if $30 is worth the few extra mhz because for that price I could get the e6750.

 

[taltamir]

the 6400 comes without a fan... and you need a 50$ to get it to run at STOCK SPEEDS... the stock fan from a 3800+ X2 had it running 55c idle 67c load on a 400mhz UNDERCLOCK.

And the intels overclock extremely well... so if you don't have a mobo get a e6750 with a p35 board or better.

This was the worse purchase of my life. 240$ down the drain. At least I got 60% more mhz from the whole deal but still a sour deal.

 

[j0j081]

well like I said in my original post if you check newegg there is a new 6400+ that includes a cooler (stock amd one I'm assuming). So you are saying the fan they provide wouldn't be good in enough? In that case I probably am a lot better off with the 6000+.

 

[waffleironhead]

Hes saying the stock fan from his OLD processor wont keep this new one cool. I am guessing that the stock fan/heatsink on the 3800+ is inferior to the one that comes with the 6400. The newer/faster x2's are capable of producing alot more heat than their siblings.

Taltimir, can you show me where it says that the black edition is supposed to have an unlocked multilpier, and where it says it is supposed to run stable using the stock heatsink from a older cpu. The tdp of your 3800+ is 65watts while the tdp of the 6400 is 125 watts. You are expecting a heatsink fan rated for 65 watt tdp to cool a proc that is 125 tdp?

 

[SexyK]

Originally posted by: waffleironhead
Hes saying the stock fan from his OLD processor wont keep this new one cool. I am guessing that the stock fan/heatsink on the 3800+ is inferior to the one that comes with the 6400. The newer/faster x2's are capable of producing alot more heat than their siblings.

Taltimir, can you show me where it says that the black edition is supposed to have an unlocked multilpier, and where it says it is supposed to run stable using the stock heatsink from a older cpu. The tdp of your 3800+ is 65watts while the tdp of the 6400 is 125 watts. You are expecting a heatsink fan rated for 65 watt tdp to cool a proc that is 125 tdp?

Not going to argue with you about the HSF, but the entire point of the "Black Edition" line is that they have an unlocked multi to appeal to OCers. See link.

 

[j0j081]

if you type into google "amd 6400+ any good" into google you can find a lot of links to various articles talking about it having an unlocked multiplier.

 

[Gikaseixas]

6400+ BE max multiplier is 16, the 5000+ BE is fully unlocked. See my sig, same motherboard as yours but with a Zalman 9700 i get 33 @ idle and 48 @ load.

 

[j0j081]

well isn't that also the default multiplier? how is it a black edition then you can lower the multiplier of any cpu can't u?

ps how loud is that zalman cooler?

 

[Gikaseixas]

Originally posted by: j0j081
well isn't that also the default multiplier? how is it a black edition then you can lower the multiplier of any cpu can't u?

ps how loud is that zalman cooler?

yes that's the default multi, you can only go down, kinda dumb IMO cuz it should be fully unlocked.

Man that Zalman cooler is very loud but i rather put up with the noise than have my cpu runing in the highs 30's.

 

[j0j081]

yeah I'm thinking the 6000+ might be better for me then afterall, I definitely do not want to have to live with a loud cooler as this will be in my bedroom.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Originally posted by: j0j081
yeah I'm thinking the 6000+ might be better for me then afterall, I definitely do not want to have to live with a loud cooler as this will be in my bedroom.

Get a Big Typhoon if noise is the problem, it's a nice cooler and now they come also with a speed fan control just like Zalman.

 

[GeezerMan]

Because of the multiplier of the 6000+ X2 , DDR2-800 runs at 750mhz, unless you want to overclock the CPU. Not that big of a deal I guess

Link

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: waffleironhead
Hes saying the stock fan from his OLD processor wont keep this new one cool. I am guessing that the stock fan/heatsink on the 3800+ is inferior to the one that comes with the 6400. The newer/faster x2's are capable of producing alot more heat than their siblings.

Taltimir, can you show me where it says that the black edition is supposed to have an unlocked multilpier, and where it says it is supposed to run stable using the stock heatsink from a older cpu. The tdp of your 3800+ is 65watts while the tdp of the 6400 is 125 watts. You are expecting a heatsink fan rated for 65 watt tdp to cool a proc that is 125 tdp?

My old cpu is a 3800 WINDSOR, same as the new one... the only difference is an F2 vs F3... in fact my old cpu is ALSO 125watts and slightly less efficient to boot (with it being an older revision of the windsor). The 65watt version is the brisbane 65nm edition...

And the black edition is the unlocked multiplier edition. It is supposed to be unlocked multiplier.

well like I said in my original post if you check newegg there is a new 6400+ that includes a cooler (stock amd one I'm assuming). So you are saying the fan they provide wouldn't be good in enough? In that case I probably am a lot better off with the 6000+.

@ jojo81: I got a 6000+ windsor for my moms computer and the stock cpu it comes with is better then the stock cpu for the 3800... so if you but the non black edition 6400 then you should be fine. The point is that it should have been enough to get it to STOCK speeds... but the thing is so damn hot that even with a giant 50$ HS/fan made by some of the best makers... that gets 30c on C2D processors, I get 44c / 55c on stock...
This thing is a BEAST.

 

[j0j081]

yeah, I'm wondering though if the one on newegg that includes the amd cooler is the same as the black edition anyway considering the multiplier is only unlocked for going down.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: taltamir
My old cpu is a 3800 WINDSOR, same as the new one... the only difference is an F2 vs F3... in fact my old cpu is ALSO 125watts and slightly less efficient to boot (with it being an older revision of the windsor). The 65watt version is the brisbane 65nm edition...

Actually, the non-Brisbane X2 3800's are only 89 watts, whether they're F2's or F3's, or even Manchester's or Toledo's.

 

[bryanW1995]

the 6400+ black edition has never had an unlocked multiplier. usually the unlocked multis are reserved for FX processors, but amd decided to make a 5000+ BE with an unlocked multi for no discernable reason earlier this year. It appears that they called the 6400+ a black edition b/c it was the highest performing cpu that they had I guess 6400+ wasn't confusing enough.

 

[taltamir]

thanks for the correction myocardia.


EDIT: For gods sake people this isn't flame about AMD. I documented my EXACT step by step experiences with this CPU in case someone needs to reference it for a similar reason.
And asked one simple question. "Why can't I increase my multiplier beyond stock".

j0j081 replied that he thinks its a bios issue on my motherboard preventing me from going higher.
- thanks, I will look into it.

bryan answered that its because black edition is the unlocked multi for brisbane, for windsor it just meant its the fastest with a locked multi (compared to FX, the fastest with unlocked multi).
- After some looking into it seems bryan is correct. I was duped by confusing naming, I guess the 8800WTF isn't the only convoluted naming scheme in the industry after all
Thank you.

Since I appearance missed the "no refunds" policy this processor had in tiger direct for some reason I will either just keep it, or put it up on ebay and get a brisbane 5000+ black edition and set the multi on THAT to 16x. (for lower heat and power with the same performance)

 

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: taltamir


j0j081 replied that he thinks its a bios issue on my motherboard preventing me from going higher.
- thanks, I will look into it.

bryan answered that its because black edition is the unlocked multi for brisbane, for windsor it just meant its the fastest with a locked multi (compared to FX, the fastest with unlocked multi).
- After some looking into it seems bryan is correct. I was duped by confusing naming, I guess the 8800WTF isn't the only convoluted naming scheme in the industry after all
Thank you.

Since I appearance missed the "no refunds" policy this processor had in tiger direct for some reason I will either just keep it, or put it up on ebay and get a brisbane 5000+ black edition and set the multi on THAT to 16x. (for lower heat and power with the same performance)

yeah well that's what I read somewhere else but then found out the same thing you did late yesterday. the 6400+ regardless of it being a standard cpu should still be faster than the 5000+ though at the same clock speed because at least it has the larger cache size.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: j0j081
the 6400+ regardless of it being a standard cpu should still be faster than the 5000+ though at the same clock speed because at least it has the larger cache size.

I was just going to say that. Also, the multiplier is so high that you only need to bump HTT up to 225 to be able to hit the same overclock as with an 18 multiplier. However, good luck on that... I suspect the chip does not have 400MHz left in it (on average).

 

[Leohart]

I am in the same situation as well. Got nearly the same rig as Gikaseixas. Paid good money for this CPU and now found out that its multiplier cannot go beyond the stock 16x with my Asus M2N-SLI motherboard. Well I am still sticking it to AMD after this. I will do better research next time.

Also, a fan that is similar to the Zalman 9700 is a good thing to have for this processor.