[AMD] World's First Shipping FreeSync-Enabled Displays (CES)

[Silverforce11]

Some of the most popular games atm are League of Legends, Dota and CS: GO, all run just fine on crap intel GPUs. Like it or not, Intel is the giant gorilla in the room.

If NV won't support FS, they are asking their loyal customers to folk out a significant chunk extra for a Gsync monitor, on top of a significant chunk extra as premium tax for NV GPUs. I guess they reward loyalty?

 

[5150Joker]

Some of the most popular games atm are League of Legends, Dota and CS: GO, all run just fine on crap intel GPUs. Like it or not, Intel is the giant gorilla in the room.

If NV won't support FS, they are asking their loyal customers to folk out a significant chunk extra for a Gsync monitor, on top of a significant chunk extra as premium tax for NV GPUs. I guess they reward loyalty?

None of those igfx customers are "loyal customers" of NVIDIA if they are using Intel gfx so they are irrelevant in this discussion. If they decide to purchase an NVIDIA graphics adapter and subsequently a G-Sync display, they will appreciate the benefits the NVIDIA ecosystem offers them. As for costs, NVIDIA has always been a premium brand and it obviously puts that R&D money to good use by creating innovative things like G-Sync. So those of you who are suddenly embracing Adaptive Sync/Free Sync should be thanking NVIDIA for bringing it to fruition. It's funny how some here are espousing open standards yet I guarantee most if not all of you are using Windows or Mac OSX which are the epitome of closed and proprietary.

 

[Hitman928]

Maybe BrightCandle could chime in about his unit to see if he went through with the RMA. He was one of the people on this forum who reported overheating issues:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36664987&postcount=536

[Quote="BrightCandle]I did get to confirm it yesterday there is an overheating issue and blowing the fan over it fixed it and switching GPUs doesn't, so that is about as definitive as I am going to get.[/Quote]

Perhaps just a faulty unit but I've seen reports on other forums of the same behavior.

Personally, I'm super pumped about Gsync/Freesync, but I'm holding off to see how things play out when the dust settles a bit. If the initial hands on experiences hold true and Freesync is just as good (or at least really close) to Gsynch, my next upgrade will be AMD with a Freesynch monitor. If Gsync is clearly superior, I'll probably go green. I'm not paying the "Nvidia tax" without a clearly superior product though.

 

[5150Joker]

Maybe BrightCandle could chime in about his unit to see if he went through with the RMA. He was one of the people on this forum who reported overheating issues:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36664987&postcount=536



Perhaps just a faulty unit but I've seen reports on other forums of the same behavior.

Personally, I'm super pumped about Gsync/Freesync, but I'm holding off to see how things play out when the dust settles a bit. If the initial hands on experiences hold true and Freesync is just as good (or at least really close) to Gsynch, my next upgrade will be AMD with a Freesynch monitor. If Gsync is clearly superior, I'll probably go green. I'm not paying the "Nvidia tax" without a clearly superior product though.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1509599/official-asus-rog-swift-pg278q-owners-club/3550#post_23335758

Well I guess the important distinction is, Nvidia or Intel can choose to support adaptive sync. If they do or they don't that is up for debate. nVidia say they will not. That automatically disqualifies their GPUs from my buying decisions as I am currently looking at the 120hz IPS asus monitor, the widescreen LG (the high res model) or one of Samsungs VA 4K monitors. The options for Gsync are extremely limited in my country. The only option is the Swift. My colleague owns one. It is still a Large TN panel, a good one, but it isn't IPS quality and that is not an option for me. I refuse to pay $300 more for an inferior panel compared to the IPS 120hz Asus monitor and buying an nvidia GPU would leave me with very limited choices.

The new ROG 4K Swift is a good gsync option and the only IPS one, but that is coming out only in H2 and the Samsung UE590 will be out in Q1 still and will likely be cheaper.

For me, it isn't about if I'm locked into AMD or nVidia. Adaptive Sync gives me many more options for monitors than Gsync.

Those are my 2c.

Let's set the record straight here: IPS is inferior to TN, especially if you are a gamer. These new G-Sync/Async IPS monitors have g2g times of around 5 ms which is no better than my current LG IPS which blurs and sucks for gaming. I even notice the input lag at 5 ms and then there's that IPS glow which shows in the corners. Furthermore, the ROG (see links I posted above) is not far from IPS quality and is certainly better than most TN panels. I don't know where people get this notion of IPS being some holy grail because it's far from it. Put it this way: If I thought IPS was so great (and I own a 10 bit IPS), I would have waited on an IPS G-Sync display or returned my ROG Swift (I'm still w/in the return window) in anticipation of the IPS G-Sync displays coming. Obviously I'm not doing that because G-Sync + IPS isn't enough of a draw given their inherent lag. And those IPS panels are probably overdriven as it is and who knows how bad the overshoot may be when they are finally tested. TN is a proven technology for gamers and will continue to be until better tech arrives.

Finally, seeing as your signature says 290x, I doubt you'd go out and spend the cash on a 970/980 (which isn't much of a performance upgrade) PLUS G-Sync monitor so I doubt you were ever really in the market for a G-Sync display unless you like wasting money.

 

[Skurge]

Well I guess the important distinction is, Nvidia or Intel can choose to support adaptive sync. If they do or they don't that is up for debate. nVidia say they will not. That automatically disqualifies their GPUs from my buying decisions as I am currently looking at the 120hz IPS asus monitor, the widescreen LG (the high res model) or one of Samsungs VA 4K monitors. The options for Gsync are extremely limited in my country. The only option is the Swift. My colleague owns one. It is still a Large TN panel, a good one, but it isn't IPS quality and that is not an option for me. I refuse to pay $300 more for an inferior panel compared to the IPS 120hz Asus monitor and buying an nvidia GPU would leave me with very limited choices.

The new ROG 4K Swift is a good gsync option and the only IPS one, but that is coming out only in H2 and the Samsung UE590 will be out in Q1 still and will likely be cheaper.

For me, it isn't about if I'm locked into AMD or nVidia. Adaptive Sync gives me many more options for monitors than Gsync.

Those are my 2c.

 

[Skurge]

http://www.overclock.net/t/1509599/official-asus-rog-swift-pg278q-owners-club/3550#post_23335758

Seems like it's just a fairly unreliable monitor. I put this squarely at Asus and not G-sync. BenQ and Acer monitors and getting any of these issues it seems.

 

[Skurge]

http://www.overclock.net/t/1509599/official-asus-rog-swift-pg278q-owners-club/3550#post_23335758




Let's set the record straight here: IPS is inferior to TN, especially if you are a gamer. These new G-Sync/Async IPS monitors have g2g times of around 5 ms which is no better than my current LG IPS which blurs and sucks for gaming. I even notice the input lag at 5 ms and then there's that IPS glow which shows in the corners. Furthermore, the ROG (see links I posted above) is not far from IPS quality and is certainly better than most TN panels. I don't know where people get this notion of IPS being some holy grail because it's far from it.

You may think it is inferior, maybe it is if you play twitch shooters all day, but I don't. 80% of my time is spent playing RPGs, RTS and Racing games. I saw no degradation when moving from my older Samsung 120hz monitor to a dell IPS panel. Sure BF4 did feel slower, but I don't play that game much any more and i got used to it.

I have the UD590 that people also claimed wasn't far from IPS quality, but my U2713 still blows it away with colours. Same with my buddy's swift. It is good, but it isn't good enough frankly, for the games I play. I will take a good IPS monitor every time. When i switch to mostly playing FPS games that way change. Just cause you only play FPS games where the speed is needed does not mean TN monitors are superior. For me and for what I play the cons outweigh the pros for TN monitors. I don't pretend my needs are the same as everyone else's and you should not either.

 

[tential]

Some of the most popular games atm are League of Legends, Dota and CS: GO, all run just fine on crap intel GPUs. Like it or not, Intel is the giant gorilla in the room.

If NV won't support FS, they are asking their loyal customers to folk out a significant chunk extra for a Gsync monitor, on top of a significant chunk extra as premium tax for NV GPUs. I guess they reward loyalty?

What's your point? Nvidia commands a price premium? So? We already know that?

Isn't that the POINT as to why Freesync being cheaper is irrelevant?

The Nvidia faithful rewarded Nvidia for a $1000 priced Titan and a $3000 priced Titan Z. You think a small Gsync premium is going to deter them?

And jesus what's with bringing Intel into the mix? You think Nvidia is going to go "Oh no, people are choosing to keep their intel graphics rather than upgrade to a GTX+Gsync monitor." I mean this reasoning is grasping at straws from earth that are placed on outer space. You can't reach them. Unless AMD is making a profit on every Freesync monitor sold?

 

[5150Joker]

Seems like it's just a fairly unreliable monitor. I put this squarely at Asus and not G-sync. BenQ and Acer monitors and getting any of these issues it seems.

The QA has admittedly been iffy with this release and ASUS warranty could do a much better job. But yes, that doesn't have any bearing on G-Sync. However, BenQ/Acer will likely source the same AUO panels so the quality of those remains to be seen. After all, none of these vendors actually do much besides build a custom UI + a few features into panels made by someone else. What will set them apart is better QA at the factory and customer support. Fortunately I got lucky w/the panel lottery as both ROG Swifts I picked up were trouble free, others weren't so lucky.

 

[Skurge]

http://www.overclock.net/t/1509599/official-asus-rog-swift-pg278q-owners-club/3550#post_23335758




Let's set the record straight here: IPS is inferior to TN, especially if you are a gamer. These new G-Sync/Async IPS monitors have g2g times of around 5 ms which is no better than my current LG IPS which blurs and sucks for gaming. I even notice the input lag at 5 ms and then there's that IPS glow which shows in the corners. Furthermore, the ROG (see links I posted above) is not far from IPS quality and is certainly better than most TN panels. I don't know where people get this notion of IPS being some holy grail because it's far from it. Put it this way: If I thought IPS was so great (and I own a 10 bit IPS), I would have waited on an IPS G-Sync display or returned my ROG Swift (I'm still w/in the return window) in anticipation of the IPS G-Sync displays coming. Obviously I'm not doing that because G-Sync + IPS isn't enough of a draw given their inherent lag. And those IPS panels are probably overdriven as it is and who knows how bad the overshoot may be when they are finally tested. TN is a proven technology for gamers and will continue to be until better tech arrives.

Finally, seeing as your signature says 290x, I doubt you'd go out and spend the cash on a 970/980 (which isn't much of a performance upgrade) PLUS G-Sync monitor so I doubt you were ever really in the market for a G-Sync display unless you like wasting money.

Sig is outdated. I've sold the 290X and the 590D is up for sale (cause I wasn't happy with the IQ) and and I was looking at getting a 390x or whatever big Maxwell is, but I was going to wait to see if there going to be any good freesync monitors and if G-sync was the better option.

 

[tential]

Sig is outdated. I've sold the 290X and the 590D is up for sale (cause I wasn't happy with the IQ) and and I was looking at getting a 390x or whatever big Maxwell is, but I was going to wait to see if there going to be any good freesync monitors and if G-sync was the better option.

You're not Nvidia's primary customer that helps them keep their large market share.
Nvidia's primary customers are those who won't switch no matter what which makes up a vast majority of the market. There are TONS of users out there who won't consider AMD no matter what. AMD is just dead to them. Their marketing decisions have destroyed their brand credit and they automatically associate AMD with bad, no matter what benchmarks say (and we've seen this time and time again on this very forum).

So because you'll stick with AMD+Freesync doesn't really mean much.

I don't doubt if 10 months from now, even if FreeSync is EXACTLY the same as Gsync, the general consensus around the average consumer is that Gsync is better. AMD doesn't push their products as well as Nvidia and that's a fact that we can all attest to quite easily.

 

[Silverforce11]

Nvidia's primary customers are those who won't switch no matter what which makes up a vast majority of the market. There are TONS of users out there who won't consider AMD no matter what. AMD is just dead to them.

I don't doubt if 10 months from now, even if FreeSync is EXACTLY the same as Gsync, the general consensus around the average consumer is that Gsync is better. AMD doesn't push their products as well as Nvidia and that's a fact that we can all attest to quite easily.

This is true, we can agree on this point.

I used to see too many gamers with money order systems with Titan SLI when there's the 780Ti (1080p monitors in their builds!).. because "It's more expensive, it must be better!"..

Even when I advised them they could save a lot of $ by going with R290X (in Australia, the price delta is ridiculous), but they say either "I only want NV, cos they are the best" or "AMD is a cheap brand, I don't want that in my rig".

Strangely enough of late I didn't hear many "AMD drivers sucks" comments. A few years back that was the most common response.

Saying that, at some points AMD GPUs did held a good chunk of the market, even ~50% IIRC with the 5800 series. So definitely there's a lot of folks out there who are willing to switch if NV doesn't perform. G-Sync premium tax would be a major factor for these switchers.

 

[NomanA]

You're not Nvidia's primary customer that helps them keep their large market share.
Nvidia's primary customers are those who won't switch no matter what which makes up a vast majority of the market.
[snip]
I don't doubt if 10 months from now, even if FreeSync is EXACTLY the same as Gsync, the general consensus around the average consumer is that Gsync is better. AMD doesn't push their products as well as Nvidia and that's a fact that we can all attest to quite easily.

While I agree with the quoted comment entirely, I am almost certain that many times more adaptive sync monitors will be sold, compared to GSync ones. With Samsung and LG jumping into the Adaptive-Sync support, and with major scalers supporting the change, there's no way a proprietary technology can compete enough to be relevant. nVidia may still make a profit out of a niche platform, but sooner or later they will extend G-Sync to cover adaptive sync monitors too.

If this were a freesync vs G-sync debate, nVidia will always have an upper hand given the market conditions. But this really is a VESA AdaptiveSync vs G-Sync issue, and it'll be decided by the display makers, not the GPU IHVs, and I can't see any scenario where G-Sync can come out ahead.

 

[Spanners]

Let's set the record straight here: IPS is inferior to TN, especially if you are a gamer. These new G-Sync/Async IPS monitors have g2g times of around 5 ms which is no better than my current LG IPS which blurs and sucks for gaming. I even notice the input lag at 5 ms and then there's that IPS glow which shows in the corners. Furthermore, the ROG (see links I posted above) is not far from IPS quality and is certainly better than most TN panels. I don't know where people get this notion of IPS being some holy grail because it's far from it. Put it this way: If I thought IPS was so great (and I own a 10 bit IPS), I would have waited on an IPS G-Sync display or returned my ROG Swift (I'm still w/in the return window) in anticipation of the IPS G-Sync displays coming. Obviously I'm not doing that because G-Sync + IPS isn't enough of a draw given their inherent lag. And those IPS panels are probably overdriven as it is and who knows how bad the overshoot may be when they are finally tested. TN is a proven technology for gamers and will continue to be until better tech arrives.

You're not setting anything straight, everyone already knows the pros/cons of TN vs IPS. I only play RPGs (and am lucky to get 3 hours a week in) so colour and viewing angles (and general desktop performance) are much more important to me than response time. So for me IPS is a better gaming experience than TN. I respect what you prefer but statements like "IPS is inferior to TN" is just as myopic as the people who "get this notion of IPS being some holy grail".

I'm just glad we are getting some IPS free/G options from both companies coming through.

 

[Eymar]

I'm just glad we are getting some IPS free/G options from both companies coming through.

Amen to that. I really like there will be more 27" and above 1440p 120/144 hz options so hopefully they'll be cheaper than the ROG Swift. Just maybe there will be a 4k 32" 120/144hz Free/G monitor in near future. With regards to G-Sync and A-Sync debate, I don't see why monitor vendors wont just implement both for their high end models if they were going to implement a G-Sync model in the near future. Monitors are not a common purchase so I would assume a buyer would spend the extra dough to have support for both.

 

[5150Joker]

You're not setting anything straight, everyone already knows the pros/cons of TN vs IPS. I only play RPGs (and am lucky to get 3 hours a week in) so colour and viewing angles (and general desktop performance) are much more important to me than response time. So for me IPS is a better gaming experience than TN. I respect what you prefer but statements like "IPS is inferior to TN" is just as myopic as the people who "get this notion of IPS being some holy grail".

I'm just glad we are getting some IPS free/G options from both companies coming through.

I specifically said TN is superior for gaming and that is more than just twitch shooters. It also encompasses fighting games (e.g. street fighter) and can benefit racing games greatly with it's reduced blur and input lag. Platform games will also benefit from less input lag that TN offers. So really, IPS is more suited for people that do non-gaming work on their displays. In that regard, a G-Sync + IPS is the market for them and I recognize that.

However, that does NOT mean IPS is in any way shape or form superior to TN, it's just an alternative technology with some pros and and many cons.

 

[Skurge]

I specifically said TN is superior for gaming and that is more than just twitch shooters. It also encompasses fighting games (e.g. street fighter) and can benefit racing games greatly with it's reduced blur and input lag. Platform games will also benefit from less input lag that TN offers. So really, IPS is more suited for people that do non-gaming work on their displays. In that regard, a G-Sync + IPS is the market for them and I recognize that.

However, that does NOT mean IPS is in any way shape or form superior to TN, it's just an alternative technology with some pros and and many cons.

But it does mean the TN is superior to IPS?

You seem to have a hard time accepting that the IQ is more important to some people than the speed even for games.

I have experienced the difference and I still prefer IPS. When i fire up Starcraft a game I love, but I'm not very good at (stuck in gold league) I still would rather play in on the Dell 10 times out of 10 cause it looks so much better. Dragon Age? Please i hardly ever pan the view. Asseto Corsa? I'm far more concerned about the feedback my wheel is giving me and the lines I'm taking than any blur or lag. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 1ms display like my 590D and an 8ms display like the U2713.

Notice when I say racing games I am talking about sims, not NFS or Trackmania and sims are much slower than those games.

 

[HurleyBird]

If Intel gets on board with Freesync (which there's no real reason for them not to) it will force Nvidia to get on board as well or else suffer significantly. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in fanboy delusion. Given that scenario I could see Nvidia offering a future version of Gysnc that is a superset of Freesync features with Nvidia specific extensions.

 

[5150Joker]

But it does mean the TN is superior to IPS?

You seem to have a hard time accepting that the IQ is more important to some people than the speed even for games.

I'll reiterate for the last time, with respect to these new top end TN G-sync panels like the ROG, the IQ delta is next to nothing vs an IPS panel. In fact, and I've said this repeatedly, IPS panels suffer from glow which is really distracting. So really their biggest benefit is better viewing angles if you can tolerate the glow (the ROG doesn't have the greatest viewing angles) and slightly better color reproduction.

I have experienced the difference and I still prefer IPS. When i fire up Starcraft a game I love, but I'm not very good at (stuck in gold league) I still would rather play in on the Dell 10 times out of 10 cause it looks so much better. Dragon Age? Please i hardly ever pan the view. Asseto Corsa? I'm far more concerned about the feedback my wheel is giving me and the lines I'm taking than any blur or lag. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 1ms display like my 590D and an 8ms display like the U2713.

Notice when I say racing games I am talking about sims, not NFS or Trackmania and sims are much slower than those games.

So you play a subset of games and are admittedly not a competitive gamer. That's your preference and nobody is chastising you for it. However, I'm specifically addressing the notion that some people have thinking IPS is in every way superior to TN and that TN is somehow junk when that is far from reality.

If Intel gets on board with Freesync (which there's no real reason for them not to) it will force Nvidia to get on board as well or else suffer significantly. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in fanboy delusion. Given that scenario I could see Nvidia offering a future version of Gysnc that is a superset of Freesync features with Nvidia specific extensions.

Why don't you explain to us how that would force NVIDIA to do anything? As long as they have G-Sync displays on the market, it matters not what Intel or AMD do. Intel igfx are non-factors in the discrete gaming market that NVIDIA competes in.

Anyhow, brb, time to go play some BF4 on my sweet sweet G-Sync display for an hour or two.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I think it's a bit silly to say that IPS has a few pros and a lot of cons...it's really the best in terms of grouping better color production (both before and after calibration) and putting that with decent response rates (compared to MVA.) To say color on a TN is OK is forgetting that TN panels are 6 bit color and thus can't make good gradients.

Moreover, I'm unsure that a TN panel really "helps" gamers. 10ms difference in input lag really will have no effect on a game.

 

[96Firebird]

The whole TN vs IPS argument is blown way out of proportion, especially by a lot here in this forum. IPS has better viewing angles, that is for certain. The color gamut of an IPS monitor is usually better, but on an 8-bit TN panel like the Swift, the color accuracy is very good.

And those better colors are not going to translate into better looking games if the colors are changing frequently. That is where the longer response time of IPS monitors are a downside. Those "accurate colors" never reach their full potential if they are constantly changing. Most people just see the better colors in static images, and don't realize how it changes while gaming.

 

[5150Joker]

I think it's a bit silly to say that IPS has a few pros and a lot of cons...it's really the best in terms of grouping better color production (both before and after calibration) and putting that with decent response rates (compared to MVA.) To say color on a TN is OK is forgetting that TN panels are 6 bit color and thus can't make good gradients.

Moreover, I'm unsure that a TN panel really "helps" gamers. 10ms difference in input lag really will have no effect on a game.

ROG swift is 8 bit, not 6 bit. The "better color" argument doesn't apply to all IPS panels by default, only the top ones which are a small subset and also pricey. And if you think 10 ms input lag makes no difference, you're no gamer and should stick to consoles and TV's with input lag laden scalers.

 

[Grooveriding]

Let's set the record straight here: IPS is inferior to TN, especially if you are a gamer. These new G-Sync/Async IPS monitors have g2g times of around 5 ms which is no better than my current LG IPS which blurs and sucks for gaming. I even notice the input lag at 5 ms and then there's that IPS glow which shows in the corners.

You don't understand what IPS glow is. What you experienced was a bad panel with backlight bleed. IPS glow is a uniform appearance of blacks being faintly lit. Bright spots at edges and corners is backlight bleed and is from having a crap panel. IPS glow is generally only going to be noticeable on a completely or near all black screen where you'll see the faint glow coming through uniformly across the panel.

The swift is far from being monitor utopia. I probably would of kept mine, even though colours were crap compared to my IPS and viewing angles were truly bad causing the image to wash out depending on where you looked on the screen, but it had a handful of dead pixels and backlight bleed so back it went. The whole myth of a 'quality' TN panel is just that. TNs are junk and only good for response times now that these new panels are coming out. They're down to one metric where they have an advantage and otherwise IPS/AHVA etc crush them.

These new upcoming 1440p 144hz IPS panels with adaptive and gsync are the holy grail of monitors until we get 4K @ 120hz. The swift is an excessively hyped and grossly over-rated panel. It's a low budget TN and exhibits all the negatives that every other TN does in use. It was good for a short while there with the 1440p, 144hz and gsync - but once these 1440p 144hz IPS screens start launching with gsync and adaptive sync - they've even announced ULMB on one of the models using the IPS panel - the swift will be back to being just another low budget TN.

 

[HurleyBird]

Why don't you explain to us how that would force NVIDIA to do anything? As long as they have G-Sync displays on the market, it matters not what Intel or AMD do. Intel igfx are non-factors in the discrete gaming market that NVIDIA competes in.

If Intel supports Freesync the "discrete gaming market" will not matter at all. Display makers will build Freesync support into nearly every display purely due to low cost and the overwhelming market share advantage of Freesync capable systems. A 10:1 ratio of Freesync to Gsync displays would be conservative under this scenario. A fraction of the choice in monitors coupled to a hefty price premium will surely reduce the appeal of Nvidia products.

You also have to consider what the display makers want, and I assure you that they do not want to pay Nvidia for Gsync support, nor to have their destiny controlled in part by an outside company. Gsync desperately needs to become cost competitive with Freesync to stay relevant.

Anyhow, brb, time to go play some BF4 on my sweet sweet G-Sync display for an hour or two.

Watch out for confirmation bias.

 

[tential]

This debate of IPS vs TN is utterly ridiculous and veers off the point which is that Freesync is locked to AMD GPUs. A-Sync, is currently locked to AMD GPUs.

Nvidia is NOT supporting this standard, make all of the crazy comments you want, they aren't doing it.

Stating that getting an Adaptive Sync monitor allows you to use Nvidia or AMD Gpus to utilize the features is down right false.