[AMD] World's First Shipping FreeSync-Enabled Displays (CES)

[stahlhart]

This thread is for discussing Freesync monitors. Stay on topic.
-- stahlhart

 

[mindbomb]

Out of curiosity, does G-sync support video playback?

I think only some videos are supported, 30 fps or higher. Since videos are constant fps usually, you don't really need gsync of freesync. There are technologies that run on the shaders to fix these problems for videos (amd fluid motion for example, or anyone can make their own) for any monitor.

 

[Rvenger]

http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/CES-2015-AMD-Talks-Technical-about-FreeSync-Monitors

Why is anandtech not covering this?

I think this is why AMD has been developing Dynamic Frame Rate Control because of the FPS limitations of freesync. This may be a deal breaker for some I think but I guess we will have to see it in action like the article says. :hmm:

 

[dacostafilipe]

This may be a deal breaker for some ...

Why? If you want those high FPS then you need +120hz monitor. It's just common sense.

Or did I miss something?

 

[DiogoDX]

Why? If you want those high FPS then you need +120hz monitor. It's just common sense.

Or did I miss something?

For me is the same as Gsync. Above de refresh will not work as below de minimum.

 

[cen1]

What happens below that limit and above it differs from what NVIDIA has decided to do. For FreeSync (and the Adaptive Sync standard as a whole), when a game renders at a frame rate above or below this VRR window, the V-Sync setting is enforced. That means on a 60 Hz panel, if your game runs at 70 FPS, then you will have the option to enable or disable V-Sync; you can either force a 60 FPS top limit or allow 70 FPS with screen tearing. If your game runs under the 40 Hz bottom limit, say at 30 FPS, you get the same option: V-Sync on or V-Sync off. With it off, you would get tearing but optimal input/display latency but with it off you would reintroduce frame judder when you cross between V-Sync steps.

Can anyone explain how is this different from g-sync? What does g-sync do in either case?

40Hz does seem a bit high tho, I'd imagine dynamic refresh rate from 30-40 should work just aswell. Must be something more behind this decisions.

 

[Rvenger]

Yeah, I read that after I posted about the minimum. It is up to the monitor manufacturers to put better scalars in the panels. So its not a limitation of Freesync.

G-Sync and FreeSync generally have the same drawback but may have different effects when you go outside that frame rate window.

 

[tential]

Yeah, I read that after I posted about the minimum. It is up to the monitor manufacturers to put better scalars in the panels. So its not a limitation of Freesync.

G-Sync and FreeSync generally have the same drawback but may have different effects when you go outside that frame rate window.

Could you explain the effects of Gsync outside of the frame rate window?

I'm not understanding how Freesync has a different effect than Gsync outside of the frame rate window so I must be missing something.

 

[dacostafilipe]

Can anyone explain how is this different from g-sync? What does g-sync do in either case?

As far as I know, over max RR, G-Sync does normal V-Sync. FreeSync does that too but you have the option to disable V-Sync. This will produce tearing above max RR.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[Rvenger]

Could you explain the effects of Gsync outside of the frame rate window?

I'm not understanding how Freesync has a different effect than Gsync outside of the frame rate window so I must be missing something.

Its right in the second paragraph of Ryan Shrout's article.

The three monitors sampled at the AMD booth showcase the wide array of units that will be available this year using FreeSync, possibly even in this quarter. The LG 34UM67 uses the 21:9 aspect ratio that is growing in popularity, along with solid IPS panel technology and 60 Hz top frequency. However, there is a new specification to be concerned with on FreeSync as well: minimum frequency. This is the refresh rate that monitor needs to maintain to avoid artifacting and flickering that would be visible to the end user. For the LG monitor it was 40 Hz.

http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/CES-2015-AMD-Talks-Technical-about-FreeSync-Monitors

So instead of screen tearing and stutter you could experience artifacting and flickering?? I mean both of them would give me a headache but artifacting and flickering sounds like it could completely impair game playability if outside the frame rate window. It will require tweaking of many settings. This is why I think the new DFRC feature will be key.

 

[dacostafilipe]

So instead of screen tearing you could experience artifacting and flickering??

Same problem G-Sync had at the beginning. nVidia fixed it, let's hope AMD did the same.

-> http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/Look-Reported-G-Sync-Display-Flickering

 

[tential]

I don't know about the artifacting.

In terms of Flickering though, it seems this is part of how both techs work. When you're at the minimum refresh rate of panels on BOTH technologies, flickering happens.

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?52970-PG278Q-GSYNC-and-Fluctuating-brightness&

Has more about it and tests done with the ROG Swift I believe.

From this video where an Nvidia Representative explains what happens when you dip below a panel's minimum refresh rate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI_gzkZqrrc&list=UU-DHaOYimgUCuQG1yGlRWpw

So it's a panel "issue" and Nvidia and AMD both will have it.

 

[Creig]

For me is the same as Gsync. Above de refresh will not work as below de minimum.

Exactly. I was under the impression that G-sync only worked within a certain FPS range. Anywhere outside of that and it will not function. Which is the same as FreeSync.

The LG 34UM67 (2560x1080) and Samsung UE850 (4K) both have a minimum refresh rate of 40 Hz while the BenQ XL2730Z (2560x1440) has a minimum refresh rate of 30 Hz.

This may completely change the relevance of refresh rates when looking to buy a new monitor. Minimum refresh rate may become a more important number than maximum refresh rate, especially at higher resolutions.

 

[Creig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rY0ZJJJf1A

PCPER - FreeSync Monitors and First Impressions - CES 2015

 

[tential]

Exactly. I was under the impression that G-sync only worked within a certain FPS range. Anywhere outside of that and it will not function. Which is the same as FreeSync.

The LG 34UM67 (2560x1080) and Samsung UE850 (4K) both have a minimum refresh rate of 40 Hz while the BenQ XL2730Z (2560x1440) has a minimum refresh rate of 30 Hz.

This may completely change the relevance of refresh rates when looking to buy a new monitor. Minimum refresh rate may become a more important number than maximum refresh rate, especially at higher resolutions.

Will also make minimum FPS rather than just Average FPS that much more crucial when looking at which GPU to purchase.

I'll be very upset if this technology never makes it to HDTVs. I don't get it. Why not? It would be so great for movies/HTPC usage or whatever. It'd just be good... please... if there is a god... let me get freesync/gsync on a 70 inch affordable HDTV (80 inches if you want to be nice and give me what I really want!).

 

[SPBHM]

lower than 30Hz minimum would be good, also I like vsync off better when it goes outside the variable range, specially for min.

 

[Erenhardt]

With a bit wider refresh range it could be possible to have some frame pacing and in-between frames refresh going on.

If the frametime is above 33ms (below 30 fps) and the display have 60Hz(min frametime 16,6ms) you have have your display refresh the old frame in the middle of the next frame creation time.

The trick is, display would need to know approximate time until next frame. This is where frame pacing would kick in. If you are droping below 30 fps, you would have better experience running all frames around this value, then to have ups and downs. Slightly adjusting frame times, making the graph flatter, but a big higher (frametimes) would make it possible to still have every frame synced with screen refresh.

But we don't know any details on how it works and if the display gets any of the info needed.

 

[Creig]

lower than 30Hz minimum would be good

Adaptive-Sync is capable of operating in the single digit Hz range whereas the lowest G-sync can go is 30 Hz.

Adaptive-Sync refresh ranges
36 Hz - 240 Hz
21 Hz - 144 Hz (30 Hz - 144 Hz = Gsync)
17 Hz - 120 Hz
9 Hz - 60 Hz

It's the LCD panel itself that's the limiting factor for Adaptive-Sync. Up until now, people have been asking for higher and higher refresh rates on their monitors. The lower limit hasn't really mattered much. But now with Adaptive-Sync, people may be looking for lower refresh rates instead of higher. I don't know if there is any difficultly for panel makers to go below 30 Hz or if there just hasn't been any demand for it before now.

also I like vsync off better when it goes outside the variable range, specially for min.

According to the PCPER first impression video, you will be able to choose whether or not you want VSYNC enabled when FPS go outside the range of FreeSync or of your monitor.

 

[Mondozei]

For the 120 Hz monitor, it's not going to be a big deal. Anything under 30 fps on PC is unplayable anyway. I'd say anything under 40 is pretty unplayable but of course, that's without F/G-Sync.

So 30 all the way up to 120, if the YT clip is correct, isn't a big issue. The 4K monitor, however, that's going to be a bigger issue. Getting 30-40 fps on 4K is not unusual and that'll be a problem.

 

[SPBHM]

movies are 24Hz, I think it would be a good min value,

yes I know you can enable or disable vsync, I'm just saying that vsync off is what I would probably choose (for min, not for max)

 

[Creig]

For the 120 Hz monitor, it's not going to be a big deal. Anything under 30 fps on PC is unplayable anyway. I'd say anything under 40 is pretty unplayable but of course, that's without F/G-Sync.

It probably depends more on what game you're playing. Twitch shooters would be more affected by low frame rates than an RPG.

So 30 all the way up to 120, if the YT clip is correct, isn't a big issue. The 4K monitor, however, that's going to be a bigger issue. Getting 30-40 fps on 4K is not unusual and that'll be a problem.

Yup. Higher resolution panels are the ones that need the lower limits of Adaptive-Sync more than 1080P monitors. The 17 Hz - 120 Hz is a very wide range and would cover any FPS you would be realistically gaming at.

 

[96Firebird]

movies are 24Hz, I think it would be a good min value,

yes I know you can enable or disable vsync, I'm just saying that vsync off is what I would probably choose (for min, not for max)

Could go to 48Hz and display every frame twice...

Keep in mind, with current LCD technology, the pixel will start to lose color after ~30ms if it is not refreshed. We can all say we want a lower bottom end, there is more to it than just asking for it.

 

[mindbomb]

144hz is already a multiple of 24, so you would not necessarily need 24hz refresh rate specifically in this case. Also, I believe enabling gsync actually does prevent you from going above 144 fps, and the distinction with freesync is that with it, it is the game's responsibility not to go over 144 fps (with an optional fps cap)

 

[sontin]

Adaptive-Sync is capable of operating in the single digit Hz range whereas the lowest G-sync can go is 30 Hz.

Adaptive-Sync refresh ranges
36 Hz - 240 Hz
21 Hz - 144 Hz (30 Hz - 144 Hz = Gsync)
17 Hz - 120 Hz
9 Hz - 60 Hz

G-Sync supports every possible refresh range. It only depends on the panel.

 

[SPBHM]

Could go to 48Hz and display every frame twice...

Keep in mind, with current LCD technology, the pixel will start to lose color after ~30ms if it is not refreshed. We can all say we want a lower bottom end, there is more to it than just asking for it.

I'm using 24Hz and movies as a reference for acceptable min for gaming (please I'm not saying 24Hz is good for gaming, it's not, game rendering and cameras are not the same), not wanting it just for playing fixed rate videos, I'm still talking about variable, so it could be 25, 26, 27Hz for the following frames, so multiples for the refresh rate might not work well (or maybe they can for under 30?), I just think 40Hz is way to high for min, and 30Hz almost there.