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[AMD] World's First Shipping FreeSync-Enabled Displays (CES)

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tential said:
Considering Nvidia had that HDMI color issue, it's quite hilarious to see so many people claim to be color reproduction enthusiasts and yet that issue went unnoticed by the MAJORITY of gamers for how long?

I'm not buying it when people say they care about color reproduction that much when something like that happens.
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How many people run a PC monitor as their primary over HDMI? :|
 
That's just not the case. Having used the ROG swift briefly and its supposed 'high quality TN panel' I can say that there is no such as a high quality TN panel. The PQ between the swift and my fairly old U3011 was remarkable with them sitting side by side. The swift at 144hz or with gsync was definitely a more fluid experience in games, but the richness of the image was a notable downgrade from my U3011's IPS screen.

I think it's a case of many just not having that reference point of a quality panel up against their TNs. When you have them sitting side by side it's plain as day that TN is inferior in all but fluidity and response times. Obviously some will be taken with 144hz and gsync and that is understandable because both are noticeable improvements coming from a 60hz non gsync screen. Any claims of equal or near parity PQ on the TN though are just self-convincing upsells to go with the TN avoiding accepting that it is weak as far as vibrancy, viewing angles and colour reproduction.

Even after using gysnc and seeing how great it is for games I still returned the swift, although it was due to the low quality of the panel having dead pixels and backlight bleed. I would of stuck with it if it had at least not had dead pixels and horrible light bleed in all corners. But for that price and compromising to a TN, it needed to at least not have poor quality control. Apparently the new batches of Swifts are resolving some of these issues though and I guess that will be an improvement.

The big thing holding gsync back right now is it only being on TN monitors. Nvidia needs to get off their asses and start pushing monitor manufacturers to get it in IPS/VA screens pronto before freesync does it first. There have to be tons of users like Adam and myself who won't go TN but are interested in adaptive refresh rate in their monitors and will pay the premium for it. If AMD can deliver it first in a good quality screen I will be buying some new AMD flagship cards and not have any issue giving up the 10-15% performance edge that their flagships lack compared to nvidia's.

Nvidia has had such a big lead with gsync and still all they've managed to get out there is a 1440p TN, a 1080p TN and a 4K TN. One of each... :thumbsdown: So long as freesync works as well as gysnc and they manage to get it into more than just 3 TN screens, that will be a significant improvement in offerings over what nvidia has pushed for with gsync.
 
Keysplayr said:
TN's are fine. The reports of the superiority of IPS panels over TN panels are greatly exaggerated. Yes, IPS panels offer superior color reproduction and viewing angles, but nowhere near the difference as being reported by users here and across the net. I think it's an elitist thing, really.
I look at this TN and the color is deep and rich. I mean, how much deeper and richer does it have to be? Over saturated perhaps?
To each his own. TN's are better for gaming anyway, at least for FPS and twitch, and they've come a long way. It's not only IPS panels that are evolving.
So when I read someone saying how poor TN panels are, I offer a respectful eyeroll.
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I can say for sure the difference is exaggerated. I've got a $1000 (at the time, cheaper now) wide gamut IPS next to this ROG TN and it isn't as huge as some would think. Yes the wide gamut IPS looks better but it sucks for gaming compared to the TN. Besides, most IPS on the market are crap with the exception of the high end ones.


Grooveriding said:
That's just not the case. Having used the ROG swift briefly and its supposed 'high quality TN panel' I can say that there is no such as a high quality TN panel. The PQ between the swift and my fairly old U3011 was remarkable with them sitting side by side. The swift at 144hz or with gsync was definitely a more fluid experience in games, but the richness of the image was a notable downgrade from my U3011's IPS screen.

I think it's a case of many just not having that reference point of a quality panel up against their TNs. When you have them sitting side by side it's plain as day that TN is inferior in all but fluidity and response times. Obviously some will be taken with 144hz and gsync and that is understandable because both are noticeable improvements coming from a 60hz non gsync screen. Any claims of equal or near parity PQ on the TN though are just self-convincing upsells to go with the TN avoiding accepting that it is weak as far as vibrancy, viewing angles and colour reproduction.

Even after using gysnc and seeing how great it is for games I still returned the swift, although it was due to the low quality of the panel having dead pixels and backlight bleed. I would of stuck with it if it had at least not had dead pixels and horrible light bleed in all corners. But for that price and compromising to a TN, it needed to at least not have poor quality control. Apparently the new batches of Swifts are resolving some of these issues though and I guess that will be an improvement.

The big thing holding gsync back right now is it only being on TN monitors. Nvidia needs to get off their asses and start pushing monitor manufacturers to get it in IPS/VA screens pronto before freesync does it first. There have to be tons of users like Adam and myself who won't go TN but are interested in adaptive refresh rate in their monitors and will pay the premium for it. If AMD can deliver it first in a good quality screen I will be buying some new AMD flagship cards and not have any issue giving up the 10-15% performance edge that their flagships lack compared to nvidia's.

Nvidia has had such a big lead with gsync and still all they've managed to get out there is a 1440p TN, a 1080p TN and a 4K TN. One of each... :thumbsdown: So long as freesync works as well as gysnc and they manage to get it into more than just 3 TN screens, that will be a significant improvement in offerings over what nvidia has pushed for with gsync.
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See above + I got 2 of the ROG's in today and neither has any issues.
 
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tential said:
Considering Nvidia had that HDMI color issue, it's quite hilarious to see so many people claim to be color reproduction enthusiasts and yet that issue went unnoticed by the MAJORITY of gamers for how long?

I'm not buying it when people say they care about color reproduction that much when something like that happens.
Click to expand...

Yes everyone with 1080p resolution, HDMI, sucky EDID and Nvidia or Intel gfx has had this issue.

By calling this issue
a) Nvidia issue b) unnoticed by majority of gamers, c) implying it affects majority

you got 3/3 wrong.
 
I think all the swift really has going for it is 144hz and 1440p. My preference right now is to run 4K because the fidelity is incredible compared to smaller screens so I just bought that new Acer 4K IPS. I like 144hz and the high refresh rate is great for FPS, but as I'm not making my living playing counterstrike I don't find it essential to FPS gaming and can live with playing Battlefield 4 at 60FPS 😀

Gsync makes a lot more sense on a 4K screen than a 1440p or moreso 1080p screen imo. I was rarely going below 90FPS @ 1440p in BF4 using my 780tis so I didn't find it essential. Whereas I wish the 4K I ordered had it because I know I will be getting sub 60FPS in BF4 now at that resolution.

Gsync was demoed on the Asus IGZO 4K long ago and still we don't see any IPS/IGZO/VA panels with it even though we know it works with those panel types. What the heck is the hold-up ? It's like they don't want any money from everyone who wants to run screens of that panel-type. It will be embarrassing if AMD delivers this first even with the lead nvidia has here.
 
tential said:
Considering Nvidia had that HDMI color issue, it's quite hilarious to see so many people claim to be color reproduction enthusiasts and yet that issue went unnoticed by the MAJORITY of gamers for how long?

I'm not buying it when people say they care about color reproduction that much when something like that happens.
Click to expand...

An indirect comment. The color range problem was known for years for those who used monitor/TVs that did not supply the correct EDID information. A registry hack fixed it. The new drivers provide the fix officially. The problem is only through HDMI, not DVI or DisplayPort when using the affected displays.

TN quality is indeed bad. Was bad. Still is bad. It's inherent to the technology.

I've bought TN monitors recommended by people who have said it's improved. I've tried. It hasn't. The same problems exist. Poor viewing angles. Especially so since monitors have gotten larger. You look head on and the middle of the monitor shows brighter colors compared to the edges. Move your head around and the problem follows your line of sight. Dithering and color accuracy issues still persist. The yellow tinge of TN past is in the panels of TN present. Colors look dirty and dull compared to what you get with IPS and VA panels. While the response time are fast, the panel is still cheap and inferior.
 
I've used IPS, VA & TN monitors, in fact, even side by side. I do a lot of work on photoshop & illustrator. Difference is there, but not worth the massive premium for the purpose of gaming.

As long as the response time is quick, I'd buy a 4K Freesync monitor for ~$500 even if its TN (I've seen the Samsung 4K in action, its great). I wouldn't pay $1,000 to $2,000 for an IPS variant. :/
 
AdamK47 said:
An indirect comment. The color range problem was known for years for those who used monitor/TVs that did not supply the correct EDID information. A registry hack fixed it. The new drivers provide the fix officially. The problem is only through HDMI, not DVI or DisplayPort when using the affected displays.

TN quality is indeed bad. Was bad. Still is bad. It's inherent to the technology.

I've bought TN monitors recommended by people who have said it's improved. I've tried. It hasn't. The same problems exist. Poor viewing angles. Especially so since monitors have gotten larger. You look head on and the middle of the monitor shows brighter colors compared to the edges. Move your head around and the problem follows your line of sight. Dithering and color accuracy issues still persist. The yellow tinge of TN past is in the panels of TN present. Colors look dirty and dull compared to what you get with IPS and VA panels. While the response time are fast, the panel is still cheap and inferior.
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I will have to agree here. I have a 4K TN panel and my old Dell U2713 in the other room. When i see my roomate playing BF4, the game look much better and more uniform then on my display. Mine is much sharper, but I'm always doubting whether that sharpness is enough.

The dell is too slow though. Once i get my 590D sold I will be picking up that Acer 4K IPS monitor. It is quite a bit faster than the dell although slower than the Samsung, but that is something I can deal with.

I'm not interested in Freesync at all.
 
I can think of only one time I have tried to use HDMI to connect my 24" Acer monitor. There was something wrong with the scaling and the windows taskbar was 3/4 out of sight below the bottom bezel of the screen. I went back to DVI connection and all was fine. This ACER XB280HK is the first time I've actually used Display Port. Pretty painless. Then again, there isn't any other option for this monitor.
 
AdamK47 said:
An indirect comment. The color range problem was known for years for those who used monitor/TVs that did not supply the correct EDID information. A registry hack fixed it. The new drivers provide the fix officially. The problem is only through HDMI, not DVI or DisplayPort when using the affected displays.

TN quality is indeed bad. Was bad. Still is bad. It's inherent to the technology.

I've bought TN monitors recommended by people who have said it's improved. I've tried. It hasn't. The same problems exist. Poor viewing angles. Especially so since monitors have gotten larger. You look head on and the middle of the monitor shows brighter colors compared to the edges. Move your head around and the problem follows your line of sight. Dithering and color accuracy issues still persist. The yellow tinge of TN past is in the panels of TN present. Colors look dirty and dull compared to what you get with IPS and VA panels. While the response time are fast, the panel is still cheap and inferior.
Click to expand...

Quoted for truth. :thumbsup:
 
1. On the issue of TN panels, it's been pointed out before there reality is exceeding perceptions. When Adam breezily says he has been burned by past experience, I'd appreciate if he would name those monitors.

There are 4K TN panels out there who have really good color reproduction, something that many picky review sites like Sweclockers or Pcper.com have all pointed out. The vast majority of TN panels, however, are not good.

And the ROG Swift had such a good TN panel that Sweclockers said it beat several IPS panels in their (very thorough) color testing.

So the reality is that it does depend. And I can't speak which panels were recommended in the past or whatnot, but it's a good rule of thumb to look at what the pros are saying, not random members. And the pros are saying that some TN panels are in fact doing really well, even if they are in the minority.

2. As to the issue of fast panels etc, there aren't any technical issues preventing manufacturers from putting out 1 ms IPS displays. It's more expensive but it can be done.

The thing is that most of the people who get an 4K IPS display are professionals as of now and not gamers. How many of them need very fast panels? By pushing up the price, you price out a lot of other potential buyers out of the market, so the TN/IPS divide persists for now and will continue to do so until GPUs get more and more powerful and 4K panels naturally fall in price.
 
I personally can't handle TN's anymore, the solution is to make IPS/PLS faster not make TN's better. I'd probably rather have a plasma monitor if that were possible.
 
Not all TNs are the same, while every IPS/VA panel is at least decent. The low-range TNs have really awful color reproduction and viewing angles.
 
postmortemIA said:
The low-range TNs have really awful color reproduction and viewing angles.
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Sure, but it's those that people tend to use to brand all TN into one generic category. The reality has been different for some time now, there's a wide spectrum of quality among TN panels, even if the high-quality ones are few, if you know where they are, you'll get a very good quality panel.
 
I have Swift side by side with 2412M. I won't claim i am pro in color stuff, but Swift colors are perfectly fine for me. Viewing angles are not!

But after using Swift for a while, IPS monitors (Dell stuff at home and at work) are getting unbearably slow for me, 120Hz fast TN is just much better even in Windows. I am doing a lot of coding in Eclipse and Visual Studio and i am already at pain at work where main monitor is 27". Heck, damn PC feels slower ( even if it is 4.XGhz haswell machine as well).

There is simply no way I am going back to 60hz IPS, with or without *sync. Tearing prevention is not only factor, HZ and motion resolution are very important as well.
 
JoeRambo said:
I have Swift side by side with 2412M. I won't claim i am pro in color stuff, but Swift colors are perfectly fine for me. Viewing angles are not!

But after using Swift for a while, IPS monitors (Dell stuff at home and at work) are getting unbearably slow for me, 120Hz fast TN is just much better even in Windows. I am doing a lot of coding in Eclipse and Visual Studio and i am already at pain at work where main monitor is 27". Heck, damn PC feels slower ( even if it is 4.XGhz haswell machine as well).

There is simply no way I am going back to 60hz IPS, with or without *sync. Tearing prevention is not only factor, HZ and motion resolution are very important as well.
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I hope you get the chance to try a 120Hz IPS at some point to add to your comparisons.
 
jackstar7 said:
I hope you get the chance to try a 120Hz IPS at some point to add to your comparisons.
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Does real 120hz IPS panel exist yet? I am not talking about products that use various tricks to appear as such. IMO the IPS/VA/PLS makers should shoot for 85hz or so - the sweet point on CRTs that was acceptable back then. The thing is most supporting electronics are made for 60hz or fake multiples of it.
 
Well, in my opinion, it all depends on your particular case. If money isn't an issue, it will depend on what games you play. If you don't play FPS like Battlefield, or in general games where reaction times are critical, you will be fine with slower monitors of any variety. Playing The Witcher games on an IPS screen, for example, is a bliss. So there's that, there's no solution that's better than the other, full stop.

Now, if there's a panel technology that produces images the quality of IPS/PLS, with the speed and latency of TN I'm in. If they don't cost an arm and a leg (and a kidney) that is.
 
I game on a good quality H-IPS panel and have noticed no difference in my scores or how well I play compared with the high speed TN "gaming panel" I used before this.
I play a lot of Battlefield and would revert to the TN in a heartbeat if I thought it was worth it.
It isn't.
There's a fair bit of FUD getting served up here about TN panel's perceived advantages in FPS games I think.
 
Wild Thing said:
I game on a good quality H-IPS panel and have noticed no difference in my scores or how well I play compared with the high speed TN "gaming panel" I used before this.
I play a lot of Battlefield and would revert to the TN in a heartbeat if I thought it was worth it.
It isn't.
There's a fair bit of FUD getting served up here about TN panel's perceived advantages in FPS games I think.
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As there are about the perceived advantages of IPS monitors color and viewing angles. Of course you can play FPS on a IPS panel. But the speed of the TN would give a superior experience in FPS games. It will be "doable" on an IPS of course.
 
Keysplayr said:
As there are about the perceived advantages of IPS monitors color and viewing angles. Of course you can play FPS on a IPS panel. But the speed of the TN would give a superior experience in FPS games. It will be "doable" on an IPS of course.
Click to expand...

You are right.

I have 3 x panels in eyefinity. While the IPS show better colors, the TN panel in the middle is faster. I see a slight lag between the image in the middle than the one on the side.

TN is indeed faster. It is not very obvious but I still notice it since I'm really picky for all the details and for perfection.
 
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