AMD unleashes first ever commercial “5GHz” CPU, the FX-9590

[AnandThenMan]

I'll ask again, what is the spec? I'd like to compare it to some engine specs/tolerances I have sitting in front of me.

 

[Idontcare]

IDC you act like Intel's engineers were infallible. They are a bunch of a very smart dudes but nobody is unerring. I'm sure they could deal with that thermal problem if they wanted to. 22nm xtors don't necessarily need to be treated like eggs, otherwise we wouldn't have bare die cooled notebook chips, nothing changed there.

Where did I ever give you that impression?

The decisions are cost-benefits driven, pretty sure I have been consistent in repeating the same message here - it is all driven by cost-based decisions in dealing with technical issues.

What I think is happening is that because I'm not painting anyone at Intel as the devil that this somehow means I am defending them. I have no defense for Intel's engineers or decision makers.

All I am doing is communicating to help people better understand the standard decision-making process that goes on with these types of engineering decisions.

It doesn't matter whether we are talking about bridges, buildings, or CPUs. No engineer gets to make a design decision without having to optimize the outcome with respect to cost trade-offs.

 

[blackened23]

Hector Ruiz earned a B.S., M.S. and Ph.D. in electrical engineering. Maybe we should ask his opinion on Haswell and whether it's a worthy upgrade. Personally, I think Intel pulled a Windows 8 on us with their subpar effort.

When haswell portables such as the macbook air fly off the shelves, then tell yourself it's a sub-par effort. The "fight" is for mobile efficiency, and that is a fight which I believe intel will eventually win. If Haswell is an indication, Broadwell will be a groundbreaking product. Heck, some would consider the improvements with Haswell groundbreaking from a mobility standpoint.

Aside from this, keep in mind that Haswell is a "mainstream" and not an enthusiast product - we knew a year in advance that Haswell would not be a tremendous step forward in terms of desktop performance. Personally I think desktop Haswell is a fine product, but it's certainly not something that an IVB owner *needs* to upgrade to. If you really WANT to upgrade that badly, there's always IB-E around the corner - that will be your enthusiast product.

 

[Idontcare]

I'll ask again, what is the spec? I'd like to compare it to some engine specs/tolerances I have sitting in front of me.

Can't deal with being wrong huh, gotta keep banging on a red-herring instead. I'm not biting, but thanks for at least keeping it classy this time.

Tell me again how your CPU is a static device that has nothing moving inside, that was a good one, I need a laugh like that every now and then

 

[AnandThenMan]

You made a claim, I'm asking for specifics and you refuse to answer. How is that a red herring exactly?

And remind me what this thread is about again?

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

You made a claim, I'm asking for specifics and you refuse to answer. How is that a red herring exactly?

And remind me what this thread is about again?

But it was an innocent analogy (if I followed things correctly).
The analogy seemed perfectly reasonable to me.

Analogies DON'T need to be 100% perfectly accurate, that is NOT the point.

 

[Enigmoid]

Why would anyone with an engineering background (or even someone with common sense) compare tolerances of a static, never moving part to components that must maintain a spec even after trillions of mechanical cycles?

And keep in mind we have no idea what kind of spec/tolerance we are talking about, just a claim of one.

Static vs moving parts doesn't really have any relevance to the point he's making. Electric tolerances and mechanical tolerances can compare very well in the context that IDC is making.

 

[matt3D]

I wonder what kind of power consumption this cpu will have? Especially with 220W TDP.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I wonder what kind of power consumption this cpu will have? Especially with 220W TDP.

In practice, probably not that much, because most of the time (most people) do not do that much cpu intensive work with their computers. I guess it really depends on what kind of workload it experiences.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Now all you need is to own a hotter second Haswell chip and you will have learned the word "variance".

I don't think my chip is thermally much different than the next one, outside of what you might expect given "variance".

It certainly isn't "cool".

 

[AnandThenMan]

But it was an innocent analogy (if I followed things correctly).
The analogy seemed perfectly reasonable to me.

Analogies DON'T need to be 100% perfectly accurate, that is NOT the point.

The engine in your car would be silly expensive if engineered to the tolerances of the gap between the IHS and CPU. Intel is already designing their products with a spendy budget in mind.

Help me out here, this comparison is largely nonsense, is that what you're saying? I'm honestly asking, because IDC is basically saying some of us are not smart enough (or engineers, or some such thing) to understand, so he tossed out a car analogy for us simpletons to grasp. Now I ask for specifics, because I am also an engineer, and I have a lot of hands on time with engines, so the comparison would be really easy for me if I have the numbers.

But I have no numbers, which is I why I asked and that is somehow a red herring.

 

[Vesku]

I don't think my chip is thermally much different than the next one, outside of what you might expect given "variance".

It certainly isn't "cool".

It's all relative:

"My cooler is a H110. All were done on prime95 with Real Temp 3.7.

Here it goes:

Stock Idle -> 28C
Stock Load -> 54C
4.2Ghz @ 1.2v Idle -> 36C
4.2Ghz @ 1.2v Load -> 75C"

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1765130

 

[BallaTheFeared]

1.2v in Prime95 AVX would net me about 80-85C, with a Dark Knight II, if I'm not using fixed that could easily exceed 95C and would possibly throttle.

 

[ViRGE]

But I have no numbers, which is I why I asked and that is somehow a red herring.

You have no numbers because only Intel has those numbers. And you know this. But you don't need the precise numbers either to make a comparison, as even a spitball estimate would find that it's a tighter tolerance than an ICE. And more to the point it's just to setup the fact that tighter tolerances cost more; typically a lot more.

 

[Vesku]

1.2v in Prime95 AVX would net me about 80-85C, with a Dark Knight II, if I'm not using fixed that could easily exceed 95C and would possibly throttle.

You should try it at 4.2GHz and post results in your thread.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2324632 - for others reference

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Help me out here, this comparison is largely nonsense, is that what you're saying? I'm honestly asking, because IDC is basically saying some of us are not smart enough (or engineers, or some such thing) to understand, so he tossed out a car analogy for us simpletons to grasp. Now I ask for specifics, because I am also an engineer, and I have a lot of hands on time with engines, so the comparison would be really easy for me if I have the numbers.

But I have no numbers, which is I why I asked and that is somehow a red herring.

What Idontcare seems to mean is that the IHS has got a limited $ spending budget, which is probably not that much in physical $, such as $0.05
For this $0.05 (Very approx) one can pay for reasonable, but not ultra high (aircraft/space flight) accuracy engineering.
This could use a car as an analogy.
Buying a car, pays for reasonably accurate car engine components, but not ultra high precision aircraft/space flight quality parts, which would make the car engine cost $100,000++, rather than the $5,000++ that it does cost.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

You should try it at 4.2GHz and post results in your thread.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2324632 - for others reference

Cinebench, 1.21v

(At wall on HX850 Gold)
Idle 80w
4.7 Core/4.7 Uncore 173w Peak 66C
4.2 Core/4.2 Uncore 163w Peak 63C

 

[bradley]

When haswell portables such as the macbook air fly off the shelves, then tell yourself it's a sub-par effort. The "fight" is for mobile efficiency, and that is a fight which I believe intel will eventually win.

Preliminary reviews indicate the battery life improvements are impressive for laptops (even if this is an enthusiast forum) but the tradeoff is additional heat with no other real improvements. Perhaps Sony botched their design, but it can't be this bad.

http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/sony-vaio-pro-13.aspx#review

Heat

The VAIO Pro 13 certainly isn't the coolest ultraportable we've tested. After playing a Hulu video at full screen for 15 minutes, the middle of the underside registered 100 degrees. We consider anything above 95 degrees uncomfortable. The back edge of the notebook's bottom reached a more troubling 110 degrees. At least the touchpad (76 degrees) and the areas between the G and H keys (93 degrees) were cooler.

When performing routine tasks, such as using Word and streaming YouTube, we heard some fan noise coming from the left side of the VAIO Pro 13. It was definitely noticeable in a quiet room.

 

[Vesku]

Cinebench, 1.21v

(At wall on HX850 Gold)
Idle 80w
4.7 Core/4.7 Uncore 173w Peak 66C
4.2 Core/4.2 Uncore 163w Peak 63C

prime95

 

[BallaTheFeared]

There are a lot of variables here...

TIM used? I'm using Liquid Pro.

Fixed or Adaptive?

Ambient? Mine is currently around 72F.

Fans used? Fan speed? Mine is set to auto, it's most likely at 100% on load.

Reported vcore 1.288v

Crap forgot the snip in the sticky note, second is fixed, -18mv offset, 178w load, actual vcore according to software 1.2v

 

[Vesku]

I'd give the hardforum guy the benefit of the doubt and say his H110 installation is at least not poor. He'd probably want to swap chips with you, heh.

 

[sushiwarrior]

As pointed out, saying that Intel's 22nm process is "too fragile" is quite ridiculous. EVERY process is extremely fragile, yet they have always used conventional solder or at least learned how to make parts to spec. Why, all the sudden, is this excusable? Intel makes/has made $50 celeron chips with a heatspreader mounted correctly. I don't think cost is the issue. It's unbelievable to suggest that Intel suddenly became unable to make a heatspreader to spec. Considering the work that goes into a CPU, it's just silly to ruin all of that by saving a few cents on using TIM instead of solder or by loosening tolerances on the heatspreader so much.

I half expect this to end up like Nvidia and their solder issues. It's just sad to see something so simple, which has always been done correctly, get botched so badly.

 

[Beavermatic]

So the Ivybridge-E (socket 2011) 6 core i7's come out in 2 months. Of course with hyperthreading and all the same OC potential.

And my current ivybridge is already overclocked to 4.8ghz.... and far outperforms a fx8000 series of the same roughly overclocked equivalence.

So I'm failing to understand how this is good news... a fx8000 series chipped that's overclocked to slightly sub-5ghz range and eating about as much power as a highend GPU by itself, and struggles to compete with even i7's out of box that are quad core.

Is it the claim to fame for 5ghz? That's been done years ago... and pretty much done by any enthusiast who can walk out and pickup a cheap corsair h-series cooler today? Those "K" series processors? they are meant to run at whatever you can keep them stable and cool at. Any speed between their box rating to whatever suits you. You don't classify them as stock speed because they are sold as not being intended to run at stock speeds, or else you'd have just bought a locked model.

Seems like an attention grab that's going to come back to bite them. When intel showed off the 50+core "Knights Corner" 2 years ago, now that was impressive... that's something to watch. Lol, you want to talk about multithreading performance... there ya go. But this? I don't understand how this is any sort of great leap forward?

 

[Gikaseixas]

And you'd know because you have a degree in engineering like I do?

That's arrogance at it's best. I have a degree but i don't think i'm better than the next person. As much as you're gifted you should turn down that "I'M BETTER THAN YOU DUMBA$$" attitude a couple notches.

On topic: in a way that's good for the desktop crowd since Intel seems to be slowing down speedwise

 

[AnandThenMan]

Can't deal with being wrong huh...

Comments like this are not helping honestly.

On 9590 (strange number somehow) I have no intention of buying one, but as others have stated at least AMD is trying. At least one company still has the balls to go toe to toe with Intel and stay in the game all these years.