Discussion AMD SoC Halo series GPU discussion

[gdansk]

Not really, no. There's that one subtest.

No, Zen 3 and Zen 3+ were competitive... They're falling behind since then and Strix Halo on the CPU side only solves what was already solved: good MT performance which the Ranges already offered.

 

[adroc_thurston]

No, Zen 3 and Zen 3+ were competitive...

No, Cezanne versus M1 wasn't that. Again, omnetpp.

 

[gdansk]

No, Cezanne versus M1 wasn't that. Again, omnetpp.

Zen 3 desktop was ahead of M1. Zen 3 laptop was 10% lower.
Zen 5 desktop is behind M4. Zen 5 laptop is 35% lower. Strix Halo might move that to only 30% lower. And that's spun as a huge and revolutionary change for the x86 world...

They're becoming less competitive. And the people coping with that are those stuck in the x86 ghetto.

 

[GTracing]

Not true.

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If the 5070 mobile performs close to the 4070 mobile (which seems like a possibility due to SM performance regression), that's also not true.

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BTW here's how the 1% performance looks like on the 4070m desktop equivalent (4060 Ti 8GB) running Indiana Jones, at the same 1080p Ultra settings:

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Those two Indiana Jones graphs are at two different graphical presets. Different graphics settings affect the average and minimum FPS that a GPU can achieve.

edit: just to clarify. The 65W 8GB 4070 mobile mobile achieves 30% better FPS in notebookcheck's testing than the 16GB 4060 ti desktop does in ComputerBase's testing. There's no way that's possible unless the testing conditions are vastly different.

 

[adroc_thurston]

They're becoming less competitive

and Apple is becoming less efficient.
put Zen5 on N3e and huzzah, competition back.

And the people coping with that are those stuck in the x86 ghetto.

meds

 

[ToTTenTranz]

And a vast, vast majority of the people would look at the pricing, then go buy the Switch 2/Steam Deck instead and keep the change. The super high end gaming handheld market does not have enough volume to tap on.

You seem awfully concerned about the market volume for high-end handhelds.

Worry not, if there are enough people that justify the R&D and manufacturing for all these 18" 4-5Kg hedious bricks that go for 4000-5000€:




Then I'm sure there's enough market for 1500-2000€ high-end handhelds.

And it's not like you have to buy one for yourself, either. Others being able to get one shouldn't be a problem for the ones who don't.

In the theoretical dreamscape that such a cut down SKU would preserve the whole iGPU, maybe.

The iGPU is in a separate chip from the ones with the CPU cores. They can mix and match whatever combination they want to.
In this case, all they have to do is take out the second CCD from the 395 Max and keep the rest the same.

In the whole history of AMD APU releases we have never seen such a SKU offered.

You never saw AMD offering SKUs like any of the Ryzen AI Max either, so we're past that barrier as well.

 

[poke01]

Zen 3 desktop was ahead of M1. Zen 3 laptop was 10% lower.
Zen 5 desktop is behind M4. Zen 5 laptop is 35% lower. Strix Halo might move that to only 30% lower. And that's spun as a huge and revolutionary change for the x86 world...

They're becoming less competitive. And the people coping with that are those stuck in the x86 ghetto.

Shouldn’t we wait till Zen6 and N2? Would be a fairer comparison, with the only difference being the ISA and design then.

and Apple is becoming less efficient

Only at the high load and that’s cause more P cores than previous gen’s. But their battery life for light loads has improved with the M4 generation.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Only at the high load and that’s cause more P cores than previous gen’s

as in 1t core power is up by a lot.
They started at like 4W core power and now are at 7 or 8W.

 

[gdansk]

Shouldn’t we wait till Zen6 and N2? Would be a fairer comparison, with the only difference being the ISA and design then.

Don't need to wait. AMD already said it's a 10% generation. Even with a big clock rate increase it's behind.

But hey that'll look great in servers (still the only thing they design for despite having separate CCDs now). And I quite like having compromised server cores for desktop. But throughput monsters like the Zen 5/6 family are the wrong direction for client devices.

 

[adroc_thurston]

But throughput monsters like the Zen 5/6 family

They really aren't, they're skinny ass cores relative to comp. rofl.
In some ways Skymont is bigger, and that's a real favela core.

AMD already said it's a 10% generation

AMD said Zen4 was 8%.

 

[poke01]

That’s a big difference. This is the biggest advantage Apple has. Not throttling when unplugged and achieving better battery life.

How can AMD achieve the same? Is it a x86 Windows issue?

 

[jpiniero]

Is it a x86 Windows issue?

A Windows issue, probably. Too busy gathering all your personal info to send to MS?

 

[adroc_thurston]

How can AMD achieve the same?

Cutting edge node, PMIC spam, MoP.
There you go.

 

[Abwx]

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That’s a big difference. This is the biggest advantage Apple has. Not throttling when unplugged and achieving better battery life.

How can AMD achieve the same? Is it a x86 Windows issue?

Not throttling for a first run, but what about after 10mn, there s nothing on those graphs that say that it wont throttle after a run or two and for much of the 30mn.

 

[poke01]

Not throttling for a first run, but what about after 10mn, there s nothing on those graphs that say that it wont throttle after a run or two and for much of the 30mn.

The 14” M4 Pro CPU barely throttles after a 10 min.

 

[adroc_thurston]

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The 14” M4 Pro CPU barely throttles after a 10 min.

The benefits of N3e and more expensive platform.
AMD can do that but it'll be costly.
Halo is explicitly designed as a no frills chungus.

 

[uzzi38]

People buy Macs to get away from Windows because Windows is so crappy now.

Apple's laptop market share disagrees with this statement. It's been on a slow decline from when the M1 launched, pretty much, constantly sitting below 10%. Actually if memory serves me correctly, it's been like 8.5-9% for the last year?

Apple's user base isn't really growing.

 

[DavidC1]

Like someone said it's looking better than I expected, but the ability to get it into lower price range matters. First you have the Nvidia brand you have to go against and second the reality is you can't ignore $800 "cheap plastic" gaming laptops and the gaming market either. They are only $800 for a reason, so those that want a cheap one would get those.

It's not a vacuum.

But sweesh is Intel missing out; they are always late..

Not really. Their attitude of ignoring everything other than CPU over decades of time meant when they needed a good GPU, no one really cared and they couldn't bother to make a good product out of it. An ARC equivalent of Strix Halo wouldn't make them that more relevant.

It means if AMD intends to use a similar packaging technology for all their 2027 laptop chips (which it's what I understand will do) it means battery life will never be great at this rate, it will be merely good.

It's not just packaging. A larger die requires lot more work to keep static/idle power low. And it has lots of them.

Apple's laptop market share disagrees with this statement. It's been on a slow decline from when the M1 launched, pretty much, constantly sitting below 10%. Actually if memory serves me correctly, it's been like 8.5-9% for the last year?

9% for $1000+ laptops. That's a lot. They have a significant share of the high end ones.

It's same as their Smartphones. Only 20% share but 70%+ of revenue. They have the perfect business strategy.

They really aren't, they're skinny ass cores relative to comp. rofl.
In some ways Skymont is bigger, and that's a real favela core.

Actual mm2 matters so no it's smaller.

 

[The Hardcard]

[View attachment 117497
This is a better comparison for creative tasks as it’s 50watts.
It’s close, against the M4 Pro. Really what saved Apple was that extra increase in P cores from 6 P cores on the M3 Pro to 10.

If the M4 Pro stayed at 6 P cores then Strix Halo would have destroyed the M4 Pro in CPU nT related tasks. But Apple did well with 10 P cores despite the core/thread advantage that AMD has and N3E helped Apple too.

Also looking at this I don’t see how M4 will be able to compete in 2026. Thinking M4 is enough to compete with Medusa Halo is crazy talk.

What’s more interesting is the GPU side of things. But I’ll do that later but AMD has no competition here.

Given that the M5 design is already done, that’s what Medusa Halo will face.

 

[Hitman928]

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That’s a big difference. This is the biggest advantage Apple has. Not throttling when unplugged and achieving better battery life.

How can AMD achieve the same? Is it a x86 Windows issue?

Others don't show the same thing, so not sure (the battery life part, not the throttling part)? Might come down more to what power plan you have set while running on battery.

 

[jpiniero]

Apple's laptop market share disagrees with this statement. It's been on a slow decline from when the M1 launched, pretty much, constantly sitting below 10%. Actually if memory serves me correctly, it's been like 8.5-9% for the last year?

Apple's user base isn't really growing.

That might be true... but people opting for Windows are buying cheap stuff.

As in Strix Point is completely irrelevant because of the price.

 

[adroc_thurston]

but people opting for Windows are buying cheap stuff.

nope.

As in Strix Point is completely irrelevant because of the price.

also nope.

 

[poke01]

[

Others don't show the same thing, so not sure (the battery life part, not the throttling part)? Might come down more to what power plan you have set while running on battery.

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HC used the 16” Mac, its has a bigger impact on battery life. Screen way more power hungry etc.

 

[The Hardcard]

Go look on Amazon and see what consumers actually buy. You'll see what I mean.

Strix Halo was absoultely designed for gaming first... and got repurposed for AI because of the hype.



People buy Macs to get away from Windows because Windows is so crappy now.

I don’t think Strix Halo was ever for gaming and is not now. It’s going to cost more than alternative gaming solutions. People who buy Strix Halo for gaming are wasting money.

The main point of this chip is unified memory and GPU access to a huge pool of RAM. Fire Range is the gaming line.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I don’t think Strix Halo was ever for gaming and is not now

It is.

It’s going to cost more than alternative gaming solutions

Cost is a function of the volume.

The main point of this chip is unified memory and GPU access to a huge pool of RAM

The point is the halo APU.

Fire Range is the gaming line.

no that's a luggable line. actual gaming laptops anyone uses are STX1, HPT1 or soon nuff KRK1.