Discussion AMD SoC Halo series GPU discussion

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branch_suggestion

branch_suggestion

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Aug 4, 2023
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fastandfurious6 said:
on a freaking tablet. huge

then this

View attachment 117471


+ 4200 points over 7945HX3D, and it's already gutted at max 70w (86w turbo) !
Click to expand...
The same chassis comparisons are the really funny part, trading blows with 4070m and sending the 13900H straight to the shadow realm.
Not to mention bigger battery cause space opens up.
Pricing is identical for the top SKU with 32GB with the same top config of the traditional, as I was saying all along.
For the same money Strix Halo is a no brainer if you really want that specific form factor.
 
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igor_kavinski

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ToTTenTranz

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SolidQ said:
Here is
Click to expand...

The most important thing for handheld hopefuls is spoiled at the beginning:

Captura de ecrã 2025-02-18 150045.png


TL;DR:

Up to 20W we're better off with Hawk Point and Strix Point, but at 25W there's already a very clear advantage with Strix Halo, and at 35W which is the thermal dissipation limit for e.g. the ROG Ally and Legion Go it's 65% more powerful than Strix Point. And on a larger handheld like the AYANEO KUN that goes up to 55W, it would get about 2x higher performance.


Also, my guess is this graphic would scale a lot better below 20W if there was only one CCD connected to the IOD. Ideally, there would be a way to simply disable one of the IODs in the BIOS, for "mobile" mode.
 
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GTracing

GTracing

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CPU performance is pretty good. It's the single fastest x86 CPU in several benchmarks.

Gaming performance is pretty lousy, imo. The 2025 Z13 with HX395 only matches the 2023 Z13 with 13900H and 4070 mobile.
 
GTracing

GTracing

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ToTTenTranz said:
The most important thing for handheld hopefuls is spoiled at the beginning:

View attachment 117470


TL;DR:

Up to 20W we're better off with Hawk Point and Strix Point, but at 25W there's already a very clear advantage with Strix Halo, and at 35W which is the thermal dissipation limit for e.g. the ROG Ally and Legion Go it's 65% more powerful than Strix Point. And on a larger handheld like the AYANEO KUN that goes up to 55W, it would get about 2x higher performance.


Also, my guess is this graphic would scale a lot better below 20W if there was only one CCD connected to the IOD. Ideally, there would be a way to simply disable one of the IODs in the BIOS, for "mobile" mode.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this chip doesn't make sense for handhelds. I still fully expect that someone is going to put a an hx385 in a handheld sooner or later, but it'll be super niche.
 
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Hitman928

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GTracing said:
CPU performance is pretty good. It's the single fastest x86 CPU in several benchmarks.

Gaming performance is pretty lousy, imo. The 2025 Z13 with HX395 only matches the 2023 Z13 with 13900H and 4070 mobile.
Click to expand...

Doesn't the mobile 4070 have a >100 W TDP just by itself?
 
GTracing

GTracing

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igor_kavinski said:
What???

Do you realize that someone with a 64/128GB version of that laptop can keep the gaming itch scratched for years with no worry about VRAM limitations?
Click to expand...
This iGPU isn't powerful enough to "set it and forget it" in new AAA games anyways. VRAM in particular won't be a problem, but they'll still have to tinker with settings.
 
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gdansk

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It isn't that good. CPU is barely more efficient than Dragon Range at 45 to 60W. And that has a 6nm IOd.
GPU performance is fine, but not great. And battery life doesn't look that good either.

Other than ML I don't see the market fit for this unless AMD is going to sell them for much less than Nvidia GPU systems. That shouldn't be hard with Nvidia's margins but AMD won't want to do it until forced by no one buying it.
 
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Abwx

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jpiniero said:
The Flow which NBC compared it to says the 4070 is set at 50+15 W. The 13900H of course is set at 65/100.

Click to expand...
It s more than 65W since in Furmark the laptop average is 115W on an external screen, if we deduct the 10W idle power that makes a 105W delta wich amount to 80W GPU power, so that s rather 65W + 15W and dynamic boost not included in the former number contrary to NBC statement.
 
branch_suggestion

branch_suggestion

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gdansk said:
It isn't that good. CPU is barely more efficient than Dragon Range at 45 to 60W. And that has a 6nm IOd.
Click to expand...
Zen4 is kinda good at that W/core range, Z5 in a lot of int workloads has very limited PPW gains.
This is well established.
gdansk said:
GPU performance is fine, but not great. And battery life doesn't look that good either.
Click to expand...
Against similar battery capacity parts it is roughly equal, which is basically expected for a disaggregated part without a LP island vs mono parts.
gdansk said:
Other than ML I don't see the market fit for this unless AMD is going to sell them for much less than Nvidia GPU systems.
Click to expand...
Well the CPU is the best in the market for a mobile part, and no, Apple is not part of the same market.
gdansk said:
That shouldn't be hard with Nvidia's margins but AMD won't want to do it until forced by no one buying it.
Click to expand...
It is a low volume tech demonstrator and pipe cleaner for Medusa Halo, which is a massive leap.
Well the whole Medusa range is such a huge advancement after AMD canned their original roadmap which was 1 year cadence, this redefined roadmap is 2 years for now.
Whether it is better vs the comp in Q1'27 is anyone's guess, I think it will be.
 
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GTracing

GTracing

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Hitman928 said:
Not as impressive, but it's still able to match a 4070m at that level. I personally wasn't expecting that, more thought it would be at a 4060m level. I don't remember anyone thinking it would perform better than a 4070m within its rated TDP.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Personally I would never buy one of these for gaming. I can see where someone who has to travel might want a strix halo though.
 
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gdansk

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branch_suggestion said:
It is a low volume tech demonstrator and pipe cleaner for Medusa Halo, which is a massive leap.
Click to expand...
It's an unimpressive demonstrator. It's barely better than the preceding solution and comes with many downsides (cost, Radeon GPU). But at least it can scale up and down more efficiently.
branch_suggestion said:
I think it will be.
Click to expand...
It is not promising. Fancy new IOd didn't save Zen 5 and Zen 6 is an even smaller IPC upgrade. And unlike Strix Point to Medusa Point there isn't going to be a big change from this CCD to Zen 6 CCD.
 
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Meteor Late

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The CPU has 16 cores and 32 threads, of course MT efficiency is going to increase. M4 Pro has a 10 + 4 CPU. The more cores, the higher the efficiency is. I mean, in that same test there is HX 390 which shows the reality when core count is closer to a match, 12/24 which is still better than 10 + 4, scores 1349 vs 1715 at higher power still.
 
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ToTTenTranz

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Another interesting bit is how the 25% wider GPU on the 395 vs 390 starts showing such a big difference even at 20W. Just goes to show how effective the Halo's 256bit + 32MB MALL bandwidth is even at lower TDPs.




GTracing said:
Gaming performance is pretty lousy, imo. The 2025 Z13 with HX395 only matches the 2023 Z13 with 13900H and 4070 mobile.
Click to expand...
It's consuming 70W while matching in gaming performance the 13900H + 4070 mobile that consume over 50% more power, and there's no 8GB VRAM limit.
The closer integration also enabled Asus to put in there a 25% larger battery while reducing the weight by 80g.

And I'm pretty sure the 13900+4070 aren't even going to work at 25W total package, let alone performing above the level of a Strix Point.


This means you can comfortably take the Z13 Halo on a bus/plane trip and play games for over 2 hours before needing a wall socket, whereas the older 4070 model wouldn't last 1 hour.


GTracing said:
Yeah, this chip doesn't make sense for handhelds. I still fully expect that someone is going to put a an hx385 in a handheld sooner or later, but it'll be super niche.
Click to expand...
On the contrary, this chip makes full sense for larger handhelds like the AYANEO KUN or the Legion Go.
People were expecting this to perform badly at 40W, but at 25W it's already outperforming Strix Point and at 35W it performs well above anything we've seen.
 
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Meteor Late

Meteor Late

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ToTTenTranz said:
Another interesting bit is how the 25% wider GPU on the 395 vs 390 starts showing such a big difference even at 20W. Just goes to show how effective the Halo's 256bit + 32MB MALL bandwidth is even at lower TDPs.





It's consuming 70W while matching in gaming performance the 13900H + 4070 mobile that consume over 50% more power, and there's no 8GB VRAM limit.
The closer integration also enabled Asus to put in there a 25% larger battery while reducing the weight by 80g.

And I'm pretty sure the 13900+4070 aren't even going to work at 25W total package, let alone performing above the level of a Strix Point.


This means you can comfortably take the Z13 Halo on a bus/plane trip and play games for over 2 hours before needing a wall socket, whereas the older 4070 model wouldn't last 1 hour.



On the contrary, this chip makes full sense for larger handhelds like the AYANEO KUN or the Legion Go.
People were expecting this to perform badly at 40W, but at 25W it's already outperforming Strix Point and at 35W it performs well above anything we've seen.
Click to expand...

It makes sense from a performance per watt standpoint. Makes zero sense from an economic sense.
 
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