adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
Just an entry ticket for the platform. It's a Pro SKU only too.
stxH is the direct opposite of 'cheap'.
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Discussion AMD SoC Halo series GPU discussion
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Bryo4321
Member
Makes sense on both accounts, so something else is probably still likely if they do pursue a living room device. I presume halo is just expensive to manufacture in general?
Very excited to see how these perform compared to my m4 pro laptop nonetheless. It’s just a cool and interesting product in general.
adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
No volume.
There's been like a 6y gap between the last GT3 Intel shipped (Coffee Lake-U) and this.
agreed.
I don't see any reason why they can't be mainstreamed except for the top 16 core SKU.
Rn, the price for the supposedly upper-end mainstream Strix is obscenely priced, and only reminds me of Rembrandt paper launch.
The Minisforum UM790 Pro is currently at $400 with 32GB DDR5+ 512 GB SSD.
The Strix-Halo 8C+32CU should be at best $600-650 barebones excluding LPDDR5X and SSD, but this AI 9 BS itself is priced at $1000+.
ARM can't come soon enough into the market.
adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
Cuz it costs real money to build.
Well yeah, poor people get KRK1 or HPT rebages.
No one's gonna ship that big dawg, 32CU require higher ASPs than the 8c part allows. Next.
I included a $250 higher markup for those +20 CUs and NPU over the Zen4 part. It is marketed as a 8050S and can't be above that.
It's the same old story. Paper launch, Intel takes OEM cake, AMD gets price cuts after a year of no-show.
adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
what
They what.
Intel isn't even playing in the extended GPU config race anymore, died with ARL-H 683.
I'm talking Intel based laptops in general, not their APUs. You can find Intel core i7 Alder Lake or i5 Raptor Lake with NV4060 mobile for $800-900 in laptops. It should be well below that for barebones mini-PC.
adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
Those are in no way, shape or form comparable to -halo and also are 2yo stuff?
Doesn't matter how many years old. AMD can do refresh of refresh with spurious names and that doesn't make it cutting edge and superior in performance.
7735HS, 8840/8945 HS, etc. Intel config is either better or on par with those CPUs.
What's the purpose of that APU then if isn't for better power efficiency and that bit better with unified memory (while the dGPU has higher bandwidth) for the same category CPU+dGPU?
Cleaned up the nonsense. Anymore trolling, flame bait, and personal attacks and the guilty will be punished.
Mod DAPUNISHER
Mod DAPUNISHER
Meteor Late
Senior member
PS5 performance is good but not if one has to pay like 4 times that amount.
Meteor Late
Senior member
People have been saying how APUs would replace mid range GPUs because how dedicated GPUs were getting so expensive. I mean, are you kidding me?
All I'm seeing is that we have created a new halo segment with overpriced big APUs and that's the only way you get credible performance out of an integrated GPU.
If one wants cheaper integrated graphics, what do we get? if you want 16 CU, you have another premium segment, Strix Point, otherwise, 12 CU is the maximum you will get. That will get you a performance of maybe GTX 1060, a bit less actually from what I've seen, mid range from like 9 years ago.
Strix Halo is just good as a proof of concept of how good an APU can be, and maybe for people who want to use AI with the versions with more RAM.
The efficiency angle sounds good, however, this super expensive thing will come with a 3 years old GPU architecture without FSR 4, so that efficiency will be less in real life where the DLSS transformer model will increase the efficiency a lot in your RTX 4060 / 4070 / 5060 / 5070 laptop while FSR 3 quality will be much worse and more unusable in real life.
All I'm seeing is that we have created a new halo segment with overpriced big APUs and that's the only way you get credible performance out of an integrated GPU.
If one wants cheaper integrated graphics, what do we get? if you want 16 CU, you have another premium segment, Strix Point, otherwise, 12 CU is the maximum you will get. That will get you a performance of maybe GTX 1060, a bit less actually from what I've seen, mid range from like 9 years ago.
Strix Halo is just good as a proof of concept of how good an APU can be, and maybe for people who want to use AI with the versions with more RAM.
The efficiency angle sounds good, however, this super expensive thing will come with a 3 years old GPU architecture without FSR 4, so that efficiency will be less in real life where the DLSS transformer model will increase the efficiency a lot in your RTX 4060 / 4070 / 5060 / 5070 laptop while FSR 3 quality will be much worse and more unusable in real life.
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Well, we've already had it through PlayStation SoCs. This Halo APU is just pure marketing quatsch. Even the regular Strix products have been set at "halo" prices compared to Phoenix for the same tier, when in many cases it is a downgrade with cut down 5c cores.
Zen5% was already poor, but you can get a 4080 Alienware laptop with superior 7845HX for $300 less than 8C+32CU part, and likewise a far better combination with 4060 or 4070 for almost half that price.
GTracing
Senior member
The 2023 Flow Z13 launched at $2500 for an i9 13900H + 16GB LPDDR5 + 4070 mobile config. There'll be cheaper Strix Halo devices.
That said, Strix Halo was never meant to be a budget gaming chip. If you're looking for a "console killer", then an R7 5700X3D or R5 7600 paired with a B580 is going to be you're best bet.
adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
Mod callouts and ignoring mod directives are rules violations.
It seems you get spited so easily. Relax!
@DAPUNISHER, is it trolling if I re-query him if he's on meds and feels so attached to it 😉
Are you comparing a useless luggable, doubly priced bulk object to thin and light RTX laptops?
Alienware 4080+7845 HX is 2 cuts above the compared "Halo" sku and costs a good chungus less, and is worth chugging it along for those who want that performance.
Read the CPU forum rules they are applicable to all of the tech forums. Calling out a moderator and ignoring their directives are rules violations. You have a day off to calm down.
EDIT: And note that vendor threads are safe spaces for their users. You cannot flame and troll in them. Go to the competitor's threads if you want to trash and bash AMD. That is the appropriate venue, and AMD users cannot retaliate there without also being in violation.
Mod DAPUNISHER
Meteor Late
Senior member
Also, we aren't even getting latest 3nm with these products. Strix Point is very expensive for what it is, Strix Halo is outrageously expensive, and yet still 4nm?
People still complain about how ridiculously expensive Apple is, but a Mac Mini M4 Pro is made with N3E and looking more desirable to me than one of these Strix Halo Mini PCs, is 3nm that expensive or is just AMD wanting outrageous margins here?
People still complain about how ridiculously expensive Apple is, but a Mac Mini M4 Pro is made with N3E and looking more desirable to me than one of these Strix Halo Mini PCs, is 3nm that expensive or is just AMD wanting outrageous margins here?
Tup3x
Golden Member
We need more competition and alternatives. If NVIDIA can cook up something that would be a nice start. Then if Intel and Qualcomm would follow, that would be great. Availability is pretty bad for Strix Point and options are meh. It's going to be much worse situation with Strix Halo.
I told you halo iGPUs are not worth it.
People fancy halo iGPUs without being conscious of why they want an iGPU in the first place. They are almost free and use little power.
Intel tried multiple times and it didn't work out. AMD won't be better off here, because the underlying reasons for a big iGPU is the same - charge more, which loses one big reason for having an iGPU in the first place which is low cost.
You need either dedicated solution like Intel's eDRAM or on package memory like Kabylake-G, or in Strix Halo's case 256-bit memory which complicates board design with extremely low volume plus new R&D for board.
People fancy halo iGPUs without being conscious of why they want an iGPU in the first place. They are almost free and use little power.
Intel tried multiple times and it didn't work out. AMD won't be better off here, because the underlying reasons for a big iGPU is the same - charge more, which loses one big reason for having an iGPU in the first place which is low cost.
You need either dedicated solution like Intel's eDRAM or on package memory like Kabylake-G, or in Strix Halo's case 256-bit memory which complicates board design with extremely low volume plus new R&D for board.
adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
Intel GFX IP sucked.
Not the case here!
Blatantly wrong.
Only the skinniest baby configs a-la Intel GT1's or the horrible horrible abortion inside Raphael/Granite Ridge cIOD are truly 'free'.
What the heck is blatantly wrong? They are like $30. Plus iGPUs are required for vast majority of systems, and pay off themselves.
GFX IP sucking or not doesn't change the fact that they'll be in high-end systems which Nvidia will easily compete against in price/performance.
adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
Yeah it does, when you ship a big premium GPU config people expect it to not suck. But boy did Intel GT3/4e options suck historically at doing the intended stuff (drawing tris in video games).
Meteor Late
Senior member
The point is, the vast majority of less informed and less versed people, when they hear about powerful APU, they expect something that is cheaper than a dGPU solution of similar power, or equal price at most, that's what they've been hearing, that APUs will replace midrange GPUs. So something like what the consoles have, that is what people expect.
From hearing people hyped about powerful APU, at least a year or more before this, the excitement was never about the price being similar to Apple's Mx Pro/Max chips but that being ok because of the efficiency and thinness benefits.
From hearing people hyped about powerful APU, at least a year or more before this, the excitement was never about the price being similar to Apple's Mx Pro/Max chips but that being ok because of the efficiency and thinness benefits.
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