AMD Ryzen 5 2400G and Ryzen 3 2200G APUs performance unveiled

[Peter Watts]

Find GTX 1050 Ti for reasonable prices. Cheapest one in my EU country costs 899 PLN - 190$. It is cost that you ADD over cost of CPU, RAM, Mobo and SSD.

Found a palit 1050ti 4GB on Amazon.de for 165, you can even go 2GB version for cheaper and it will still crush the 2400G!

 

[CatMerc]

Hello everybody. I have an honest question, so please don't, bite my head off.

Since these are the first trully gaming worthy apus, even at entry level, what does this mean for the ram wear?

I mean is system ram suitable for doing graphics rendering? Does this reduce the life span of memory chips?

Thanks.

RAM is essentially immortal. It will not fail from use, just from physical abuse. Notice how most manufacturers offer lifetime warranty with their kits.

 

[Peter Watts]

RAM is essentially immortal. It will not fail from use, just from physical abuse. Notice how most manufacturers offer lifetime warranty with their kits.

Nice to know!! Linus did a video recently on an old grapics card he used/abused intensely for years... Almost zero degradation except for the moving parts (the fan(s).

Used market becoming more appealing by the minute...

 

[psolord]

RAM is essentially immortal. It will not fail from use, just from physical abuse. Notice how most manufacturers offer lifetime warranty with their kits.

thanks

 

[tvdang7]

That's unsurprising, since these aren't the 12nm refresh parts. However, probably a greater percentage of yields clock closer to 4Ghz now.

ahh i was under the impression this was the new 12nm refresh .

 

[kallisX]

surprised by no win7 drivers. even more so considering people running igpu is more likely to use it as an office computer where its also likely its running 7 and not 10.
and if you are not interested in the gpu part, but still want a slightly updated ryzen architecture you must go win10.
how come? same chipsets.

 

[The Stilt]

This is the best I can do benchmarking wise:

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/14914856

Downcored to "Vega 8" (CU10 - CU8 disabled, 512SP) config.

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/14914919

It is far from stable, just stable enough for benching.

This is on the delidded (and relidded) chip, on AMD Wraith (OG, 125W rated) cooler.
ITX board as well, however the said ITX board happens to have the best VRM of any AM4 boards so far.
Never thought I would say that about an MSI board

CPU 1.4375V, SoC / GPU 1.3000V.

Higher the MEMCLK is, higher the difference between the Vega 8 and Vega 11 configurations is.
At >= 3200MHz MEMCLK there would barely be any difference.

 

[tamz_msc]

surprised by no win7 drivers. even more so considering people running igpu is more likely to use it as an office computer where its also likely its running 7 and not 10.
and if you are not interested in the gpu part, but still want a slightly updated ryzen architecture you must go win10.
how come? same chipsets.

I don't see why that is a problem. Microsoft blocked Windows 7 and 8.1 installs on new CPUs from receiving security updates. No reason for office computers connected to the internet to not use Windows 10.

 

[Shivansps]

No.
The chips will drop their clocks when both of the domains are pushed hard simultaneously (especially the 2400G), however that's due to the TDP limit.
Activate "OC-Mode" and the limiters are gone.

About that, the OC results boosts from only increasing the IGP clock are really impressive, i thinking it may be a TDP issue and not the memory bandwidth what is causing the stock results, but then its really impressive the stock cooler can handle it really well(and those are using TIM what is really a lot). There maybe some other kind of limit? maybe an energy limit that is causing the slower stock results?

 

[Asterox]

surprised by no win7 drivers. even more so considering people running igpu is more likely to use it as an office computer where its also likely its running 7 and not 10.
and if you are not interested in the gpu part, but still want a slightly updated ryzen architecture you must go win10.
how come? same chipsets.

No it is not only Windows 10 or nothing for Ryzen, but average people will stick to easy W10 instalation no doubt.But if you dont care about DX12 gaming, you can run Desktop Ryzen on Windows 7 + put some effort in that combination it's not that complicated.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11182/how-to-get-ryzen-working-on-windows-7-x64

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9ImB56BkY8

 

[Shivansps]

RAM is essentially immortal. It will not fail from use, just from physical abuse. Notice how most manufacturers offer lifetime warranty with their kits.

You are wrong, i had several ram sticks failing from use for no aparent reason, there is probably some external factor involved here, but they can fail for other reason than physical abuse.

 

[Shivansps]

surprised by no win7 drivers. even more so considering people running igpu is more likely to use it as an office computer where its also likely its running 7 and not 10.
and if you are not interested in the gpu part, but still want a slightly updated ryzen architecture you must go win10.
how come? same chipsets.

Windows 7 is dead is time to accept this once and for all.

 

[The Stilt]

About that, the OC results boosts from only increasing the IGP clock are really impressive, i thinking it may be a TDP issue and not the memory bandwidth what is causing the stock results, but then its really impressive the stock cooler can handle it really well(and those are using TIM what is really a lot). There maybe some other kind of limit? maybe an energy limit that is causing the slower stock results?

There is a clear performance uplift from disabling the power limiters.
Set 3775MHz (ACXFRC) and 1240MHz manually and the score is significantly higher than at stock, even at the same MEMCLK.

That's because with the 65W power limit ceiling the APU cannot sustain it's maximum default clocks, when both domains are simultaneously stressed.

 

[Peter Watts]

This is the best I can do benchmarking wise:

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/14914856

Downcored to "Vega 8" (CU10 - CU8 disabled, 512SP) config.

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/14914919

It is far from stable, just stable enough for benching.

This is on the delidded (and relidded) chip, on AMD Wraith (OG, 125W rated) cooler.
ITX board as well, however the said ITX board happens to have the best VRM of any AM4 boards so far.
Never thought I would say that about an MSI board

CPU 1.4375V, SoC / GPU 1.3000V.

Higher the MEMCLK is, higher the difference between the Vega 8 and Vega 11 configurations is.
At >= 3200MHz MEMCLK there would barely be any difference.

Can you do the benchmarks with 8GB dual channel memory? Because the whole ¨budget¨ gaming king gaming crap is annoying to read all over the web, it´s not ¨budget¨ gaming when a person needs to scrap out another 161/170 €/$ to buy 16GB of memory... It is budget if one´s willing to accept the massive performance degradation in FPS with 8GB, if a person already has the memory laying around or if one´s not doing any medium-end gaming at all...

 

[Shivansps]

There is a clear performance uplift from disabling the power limiters.
Set 3775MHz (ACXFRC) and 1240MHz manually and the score is significantly higher than at stock, even at the same MEMCLK.

That's because with the 65W power limit ceiling the APU cannot sustain it's maximum default clocks, when both domains are simultaneously stressed.

Thats exactly what im thinking, and its really a shame because OC results are petty much what i would have expected from specs alone at stock 2200G = GT1030 and 2400G halfway to RX550.

But then i dont understand how the cooler can handle it... maybe, just maybe, it is possible AMD is using 65W as a actual power (energy) limit and not TDP limit? That would explain why the 65W cooler can handle it.

 

[The Stilt]

Can you do the benchmarks with 8GB dual channel memory? Because the whole ¨budget¨ gaming king gaming crap is annoying to read all over the web, it´s not ¨budget¨ gaming when a person needs to scrap out another 161/170 €/$ to buy 16GB of memory... It is budget if one´s willing to accept the massive performance degradation in FPS with 8GB, if a person already has the memory laying around or if one´s not doing any medium-end gaming at all...

I don't have any 4GB sticks available, just 8GB and 16GB.
Fast and compatible memory in 4GB size is rather rare for Ryzen as well.
B-die has 8Gb density, meaning it won't be available in 4GB sticks.

 

[The Stilt]

Thats exactly what im thinking, and its really a shame because OC results are petty much what i would have expected from specs alone at stock 2200G = GT1030 and 2400G halfway to RX550.

But then i dont understand how the cooler can handle it... maybe, just maybe, it is possible AMD is using 65W as a actual power (energy) limit and not TDP limit? That would explain why the 65W cooler can handle it.

TDP on Ryzen in the power limit (PPT).
When the chip is hitting the set power limit (e.g. 65W) it is consuming and dissipating pretty exactly that amount of power / heat.
The power management is extremely advanced.

 

[Shivansps]

I don't have any 4GB sticks available, just 8GB and 16GB.
Fast and compatbile memory in 4GB size is rather rare for Ryzen as well.
B-die has 8Gb density, meaning it won't be available in 4GB sticks.

I dont remember the exact model but there is a corsair DDR4-3200 2x4GB kit that works up to 3000 with Ryzen.

 

[Shivansps]

TDP on Ryzen in the power limit (PPT).
When the chip is hitting the set power limit (e.g. 65W) it is consuming and dissipating pretty exactly that amount of power / heat.
The power management is extremely advanced.

I dont understand how thats possible, heat is wasted energy, it needs to use more than that in order to do stuff.

 

[The Stilt]

I dont remember the exact model but there is a corsair DDR4-3200 2x4GB kit that works up to 3000 with Ryzen.

There are several 4Gb ICs available, but none of them can even come close to the characteristics of the B-die 8Gb IC.
Samsung D & E-die is probably the best bet, however new modules based on them are becoming rare. And they're not cheap either, by any means.

 

[The Stilt]

I dont understand how thats possible, heat is wasted energy, it needs to use more than that in order to do stuff.

That applies more on things like an otto-motor.
The difference between the input power and the dissipated heat (in watts) on semiconductors isn't even worth mentioning.

 

[Shivansps]

Well then i dont understand how the stock cooler can handle it, unless the OC tests i seen werent using the stock cooler. ill need to double check.

 

[BSim500]

No it is not only Windows 10 or nothing for Ryzen, but average people will stick to easy W10 instalation no doubt.But if you dont care about DX12 gaming, you can run Desktop Ryzen on Windows 7 + put some effort in that combination it's not that complicated.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11182/how-to-get-ryzen-working-on-windows-7-x64

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9ImB56BkY8

You're right that Ryzen, Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake motherboards themselves all still work fine on W7 (despite MS's endless bogus fear-mongering). All three have drivers available for chipset, USB / XHCI, LAN, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, SATA, etc, NVMe support was added with hotfix KB2990941, and board manufacturers even have an automated utility that slipstreams XHCI and NVMe into an install image / ISO, etc. The so called security update "block" was also unblocked last April and has been a total non-issue for 10 months.

However, he's referring to the new APU drivers (the graphics driver) for the Vega graphics on the APU's released yesterday which appears to be W10 only. In short, supported W7 iGPU drivers was one of the main reasons for people who wish to continue to use W7 to choose a Ryzen APU over any Coffee Lake chip to avoid needing a dGPU. Now they equally won't work and it looks like people wishing to remain on W7 who buy a Ryzen APU will need a dGPU anyway.

Ryzen APU = No W7 GPU driver for onboard Vega GFX. dGPU required for W7.

Ryzen CPU + dGPU (AMD or nVidia) = Continues to work fine on W7.

 

[Peter Watts]

I don't have any 4GB sticks available, just 8GB and 16GB.
Fast and compatible memory in 4GB size is rather rare for Ryzen as well.
B-die has 8Gb density, meaning it won't be available in 4GB sticks.

HUH so there´s almost no dual channel 8Gb kits available which work with Ryzen? You mean compatible with these APU´s or what?

 

[Shivansps]

There are several 4Gb ICs available, but none of them can even come close to the characteristics of the B-die 8Gb IC.
Samsung D & E-die is probably the best bet, however new modules based on them are becoming rare. And they're not cheap either, by any means.

Thats is really a problem for budget builds, then ill like to see a 2200G with dual DDR4-2400 without the power limits. Ill probably do this myself by friday or so.