AMD Ryzen 5 2400G and Ryzen 3 2200G APUs performance unveiled

[formulav8]

Come on guys, Raven Ridge mainly gives AMD a means for people to build Ryzen without worrying about needing a discreet GPU. That is AMD's biggest reason for the IGP. Not winning GPU performance against discreet video cards. RR gives AMD a huge advantage compared to Summit Ridge by Not requiring an external graphics card for a huge base of people not needing/wanting/caring about serious gaming.

 

[Spartak]

Come on guys, Raven Ridge mainly gives AMD a means for people to build Ryzen without worrying about needing a discreet GPU. That is AMD's biggest reason for the IGP. Not winning GPU performance against discreet video cards. RR gives AMD a huge advantage compared to Summit Ridge by Not requiring an external graphics card for a huge base of people not needing/wanting/caring about serious gaming.

this.

all this talk about GPU performance, when this chip is meant for non / casual gamers, is absurd. Anybody looking to game should be looking for discrete graphics, not these chips.

 

[PeterScott]

.22%

Then there are all the GPUs attached to intel APUs that have historically not been counted. Overall there is a sizeable number of potential Ryzen G series sales just for the market that buy that class of GPUs alone, in order to have the next step up from intel's poor graphics capability. Then there are those sales that went to intel APUs because the computer performance was strong but the GPU performance was 'good enough'. There's no longer the need to compromise the GPU performance with an intels 8th generation with Ryzen G having similar CPU performance and vastly better GPU performance and lower cost. Win. The R7 at .62% is surprisingly good considering the lower CPU performance. It means that consumers around the world are using APUs for gaming, and will certainly be attracted to Ryzen G.

Still under 1%, not the huge market many here keep talking about, instead it's a tiny minority, which is why it is kind of crazy people keep acting like replacing GT1030 cards was the most important thing ever.

In reality it's almost completely inconsequential.

Where the chip really matters is for non gamers, who don't care about GPU at all, not because of the GPU part, but because of the CPU part.

Raven Ridge is the Laptop/SFF chip that AMD needed to compete on CPU performance for computers where GPU was more or less irrelevant. It finally has that part.

 

[piesquared]

Still under 1%, not the huge market many here keep talking about, instead it's a tiny minority, which is why it is kind of crazy people keep acting like replacing GT1030 cards was the most important thing ever.

In reality it's almost completely inconsequential.

Where the chip really matters is for non gamers, who don't care about GPU at all, not because of the GPU part, but because of the CPU part.

Raven Ridge is the Laptop/SFF chip that AMD needed to compete on CPU performance for computers where GPU was more or less irrelevant. It finally has that part.

It matters quite a bit actually. If it was as insignificant as some people are trying to convince others, then there would be no point in Nvidia designing, fabbing and releasing it.
Ryzen G not only replaces the need for a low end 1030 discrete card, it also replaces the need for all those intel APUs on the steam survey. There are a whole lot of people gaming on intel APUs, so clearly there is a demand for an APU with equivalent compute performance with far better graphics performance.

 

[neblogai]

Still under 1%, not the huge market many here keep talking about, instead it's a tiny minority, which is why it is kind of crazy people keep acting like replacing GT1030 cards was the most important thing ever.

That was Steam statistics- which do not always reflect market well. For example- China had a large player base for a while, most of them playing on budget GPUs- but only in the last year they started massively joining Steam, which changed Steam statistics.
Situation is probably similar in India: Steam stats show 1300 million Indians owning only 2x steam accounts (but similar number on games) in total, as 2.8 million Lithuanians. So either they do not own PCs/play games- or their PCs simply do not show up on Steam statistics. And in case of India- buying budget PC with iGPU that can play almost every new game makes total sense for the majority of the population.

 

[frozentundra123456]

And what about all the gamers on Intel's iGPU? RR is a massive leap in perf/$.

If you add up all the intel igpus in the steam survey, it is still less than 10% of the total, many of them very old systems, based on the model of the igpu. So adding up all the generations of intel igpus, it is barely more than the *single* most popular dgpu.

 

[ZGR]

If you add up all the intel igpus in the steam survey, it is still less than 10% of the total, many of them very old systems, based on the model of the igpu. So adding up all the generations of intel igpus, it is barely more than the *single* most popular dgpu.

I really wish I could trust the Steam HW survey as a reliable source of hardware statistics, so I can't really be sure how accurate it is.

Intel's iGPU controls a major part of the market share and is well above all dGPU's.

 

[frozentundra123456]

That was Steam statistics- which do not always reflect market well. For example- China had a large player base for a while, most of them playing on budget GPUs- but only in the last year they started massively joining Steam, which changed Steam statistics.
Situation is probably similar in India: Steam stats show 1300 million Indians owning only 2x steam accounts (but similar number on games) in total, as 2.8 million Lithuanians. So either they do not own PCs/play games- or their PCs simply do not show up on Steam statistics. And in case of India- buying budget PC with iGPU that can play almost every new game makes total sense for the majority of the population.

So only 1.6 million out of 1.3 billion (less than 0.1%) have steam accounts, but buying a "gaming" pc with an APU makes sense for more than half the population? That is quite a stretch.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I really wish I could trust the Steam HW survey as a reliable source of hardware statistics, so I can't really be sure how accurate it is.

Intel's iGPU controls a major part of the market share and is well above all dGPU's.

I also have reservations about the steam survey. But I would hardly call 10% or less (adding up all the various models of intel igpus) a major part of the market share.

 

[Shivansps]

.22%

Then there are all the GPUs attached to intel APUs that have historically not been counted. Overall there is a sizeable number of potential Ryzen G series sales just for the market that buy that class of GPUs alone, in order to have the next step up from intel's poor graphics capability. Then there are those sales that went to intel APUs because the computer performance was strong but the GPU performance was 'good enough'. There's no longer the need to compromise the GPU performance with an intels 8th generation with Ryzen G having similar CPU performance and vastly better GPU performance and lower cost. Win. The R7 at .62% is surprisingly good considering the lower CPU performance. It means that consumers around the world are using APUs for gaming, and will certainly be attracted to Ryzen G.

Its 0.07% on DX12 stats that accounts only for modern GPUs, modern PCs and Windows 10, if you want to use Vulkan things only gets worse. The 1050 2GB accounts for 8% there. And i think using Vulkan causes to remove a lot of GPUs that does not support Vulkan at all, causing the 1030 % to go up.

If you want to make it more "fair" use DX11 numbers, 0.14%.

And this subject is brought up everytime steam survey is mentioned, yes most people does not have a steam account, but we have no reason to belive that most people running X hard does not get steam. This is the best we got unfortunately. And it dosent mention CPU names that could really help to see what is the top seller APU.

 

[ZGR]

So only 1.6 million out of 1.3 billion (less than 0.1%) have steam accounts, but buying a "gaming" pc with an APU makes sense for more than half the population? That is quite a stretch.

All entry level PC gamers I talk to are so horribly confused with hardware, that they will often over value bad components.

PC gamers I know can't even maintain 60 fps on their crappy 1080p display.

Most people on this planet are simply Hardware illiterate. RR is just a huge step forward.

I won't be recommending RR to any gamers, as well as this oft talked about GT 1030. These are terrible parts for PC gaming. At least RR is a cheap CPU that is actually decent.

But that will not change the fact that we anandtech forum users have higher levels of expectation from our hardware. I think 1080p 30 fps is a terrible gaming experience, but for many, it is fine.

This esport talk is also stupid. Any esport gamer plays at 144hz. No APU will do 144hz except for CS GO and other terrible looking games. A lot of newer esport games now require beefy specs.

I don't know any serious esport gamer that games on anything less than a GTX 970.

 

[SPBHM]

I play a f2p mmo at times and huge portion there are playing with laptops with Intel IGPs.

it's very clear that these companies care quite a bit about gaming performance on their IGPs, both Intel and AMD .
the huge die space the Intel IGP takes, the APU having 512-704SPs, the marketing, makes it fairly obvious, there is not enough GPGPU usage of these to justify without gaming being a factor.

if it was all about allowing people to run windows without dGPU only, 1-2 CU GPU would be OK.

discussing gaming performance, comparing it to the GT 1030 makes perfect sense.

 

[Shivansps]

I play a f2p mmo at times and huge portion there are playing with laptops with Intel IGPs.

it's very clear that these companies care quite a bit about gaming performance on their IGPs, both Intel and AMD .
the huge die space the Intel IGP takes, the APU having 512-704SPs, the marketing, makes it fairly obvious, there is not enough GPGPU usage of these to justify without gaming being a factor.

if it was all about allowing people to run windows without dGPU only, 1-2 CU GPU would be OK.

discussing gaming performance, comparing it to the GT 1030 makes perfect sense.

It makes sence, AMD always compared APUs to low end GPUs, its just this time they dont seem to get the result they usually get, and this is a shame. Im really tired of people trying to make up excuses for that and attacking users that dosent think like them. The IGP on a 2400G its huge, even the 2200G should be outperforming a punny GT1030 provided it got enoght bandwidth. I have no idea of what is going on here, i cant just put on a blindfold, plug my hears and pretent everything is fine, this should not be happening.

And i still rather see a 2/4 with 3 CU and a 9600 replacement than these 2 APUs that are more of a niche market.

 

[neblogai]

So only 1.6 million out of 1.3 billion (less than 0.1%) have steam accounts, but buying a "gaming" pc with an APU makes sense for more than half the population? That is quite a stretch.

I already gave you an example about gamers not necessarily needing Steam- China had lots of gamers for a years, without them getting steam accounts. They still bought lots of hardware (it's a known fact that 750Ti were selling well there) even before PUBG (+Steam) got popular.
And in India, income of the majority of population is lower than in China. A8 9600 or 2200G are cheaper than anything with a discreet GPU- but can still run most games. Makes perfect sense for that market (and cheap laptops with non-U series RR- even more so).

 

[Mockingbird]

BTW, has anyone noticed a huge fallacy in Shivansps's argument?

His/her argument can be sum up in two parts.

1.) AMD Ryzen's integrated graphics is not good enough to replace discrete graphics cards

2.) Intel Core's integrated graphics is good enough for people who don't need discrete graphics cards

Assuming that both of these arguments are true, it doesn't explain why people (who don't need discrete graphics cards) wouldn't instead get Ryzen for its better-than-"good enough" integrated graphics.

Why get "good enough" when you can get better-than-"good enough"?

 

[piesquared]

Exactly. Ryzen G with high performance Zen CPU cores and high performance Vega GPU cores is a huge differentiator for a large part of the population. GPU performance similar to a low end card like a 1030 satisfies a huge chunk of the overall market.
Low end, low cost products sell in high volume, its the only way companies get any ROI as the margins are low. Nv aren't going to spend multi millions of dollars to design a new product, mask it, fab it, on a different node at a different foundry unless they planned on making money from the thing. Siting the steam hardware survey as evidence has run its course, it's time to move on to common sense.

 

[3DVagabond]

And what about all the gamers on Intel's iGPU? RR is a massive leap in perf/$.

^^^THIS^^^

Anyone who doesn't realize these are going to sell really well is either out of touch or extremely biased. Ryzen is on a roll and the iGPU in these is massively better than what is available from Intel. That's the market for them. They are for people who don't want a DGPU.

 

[srscat]

WIth memory bandwidth trap, DDR4 prices, mobo etc requirements for OC it would be cheaper to buy ryzen cpu w/o iGPU and GT 1030 and some cheap ram.

 

[Gideon]

BTW it seems there will be a ~50$ 2/4 Athlon APU:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/7vth8t/amd_athlon_200ge_with_radeon_vega_graphicvega_3/

 

[frozentundra123456]

BTW, has anyone noticed a huge fallacy in Shivansps's argument?

His/her argument can be sum up in two parts.

1.) AMD Ryzen's integrated graphics is not good enough to replace discrete graphics cards

2.) Intel Core's integrated graphics is good enough for people who don't need discrete graphics cards

Assuming that both of these arguments are true, it doesn't explain why people (who don't need discrete graphics cards) wouldn't instead get Ryzen for its better-than-"good enough" integrated graphics.

Why get "good enough" when you can get better-than-"good enough"?

Actually, your argument (not sure if you are paraphrasing Shiv correctly) is the very weakness of an apu. It is, and always has been, in limbo between better than Intel but not powerful enough for demanding applications. Being better than intel does not change that, and is not going to be a driving force for those users for which intel is "good enough". And BTW, how many hundreds of posts have we seen in this forum discounting intel's better gaming on the higher end cpus by saying AMD is "good enough".

 

[Shivansps]

BTW, has anyone noticed a huge fallacy in Shivansps's argument?

His/her argument can be sum up in two parts.

1.) AMD Ryzen's integrated graphics is not good enough to replace discrete graphics cards

2.) Intel Core's integrated graphics is good enough for people who don't need discrete graphics cards

Assuming that both of these arguments are true, it doesn't explain why people (who don't need discrete graphics cards) wouldn't instead get Ryzen for its better-than-"good enough" integrated graphics.

Why get "good enough" when you can get better-than-"good enough"?

The only fallacy here is you taking things out of context.

1) AMD stablished that, in every gen of APU they promoted to no end how an APU is better than low end dGPUs, this does not seem to be the case now, no idea why.
Also i said most people looking to do gaming they usually choose for GTX1050+some cheap cpu, this thing with the 1030 that people keep mentioning here just dosent exist OR they choose the entry level quad core APU, that was the 7600 now the 9600. 9700 and 9800 APU are super niches. Maybe that will change now to 2200G no idea, by price it is replacing the 9800 so well see, im just saying what is happening. And what im saying is backed up by steam survey results so i dont think its something that happens only on my country. Its a shame we cant know about the exact APU numbers.

2) As i said earlier, most people does not do any kind of heavy gaming, just multimedia, some programs to work, web browsing, maybe facebook/flash/html5 games, at the most they play LOL, and for that the A4-7300, A6-9500 and G3930/G4560 gets the job done. Thats what i said. And those are the CPU that sells the most. Thats why i rather have a 2/4 Ryzen at $50.

The next step up is the 9600 that it can almost play everything, GTA V / Overwatch and PUBG is what people looks for, and PUBG is not enterely playable on 9600, so for that they just get something with a 1050. Maybe that will change now with the 2200G, time will tell.

 

[Shivansps]

BTW it seems there will be a ~50$ 2/4 Athlon APU:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/7vth8t/amd_athlon_200ge_with_radeon_vega_graphicvega_3/

Thanks you this is exactly what im looking for, i hope they relased it to desktop and price it right.

 

[LTC8K6]

Thanks you this is exactly what im looking for, i hope they relased it to desktop and price it right.

Sounds like an embedded desktop chip that AMD doesn't want connected to Ryzen?

 

[Peter Watts]

This thread has turned into a mudslinging contest by self proclaimed, know-it-all jokers who are basing their opinions on some supposed leaked benchmarks!

Wait for the damn APU´s to get released so we can see the real-time benchmarks, and BTW the card is called the GT 1030 and not GTX 1030.... Unbelievable... Pfffft.

Entry-level gaming is console gaming for most consumers. 30+ FPS is good enough for most non-hardcore gamers!!! Not everyone has the cash laying around to invest in expensive dGPU´s immediately, nor does EVERYONE have interest in doing so! Climb out of your gamer-bubbles and smell the coffee!!!

That was my rant!

 

[Shivansps]

Sounds like an embedded desktop chip that AMD doesn't want connected to Ryzen?

mmm thats a 2200U with another name, so i expect this is no mobile SKU, Athlon a is desktop brand, G is like the other 2 Ryzens, 2200G and 2400G, and the E is used to indicate a low TDP SKU, petty much like the A6-9500E.
Could be embedded, but i would guess this is desktop unless i find evidence to the contrary.

They generally use strange names for embbeded like Geode, or just numbers with RX, LX...

This thing at $50 would be very interesting, it petty much kills everything at sub $100.. And maybe a 6CU version at $70 to replace the 9600.