AMD Ryzen 5 2400G and Ryzen 3 2200G APUs performance unveiled

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SPBHM

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Sep 12, 2012
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Yes but i was hoping it would give a8 9600 a run for its money.

But at that price its a great value anyway.

Enviado desde mi 5044O mediante Tapatalk
it looks like the GPU score of the G4560 is around 1000 with dual channel ram, while the a8 9600 is around 1800 with the same DDR4 2400 dual channel

so the 200GE is not THAT far and typically 3dmark11 is not a very good representation, it's more forgiving to low memory performance than most games,
given the 200GE higher memory clock support and just the apparent much better memory performance of the Ryzen APUs, I think it might be an interesting fight in many games, maybe.
 

prtskg

Senior member
Oct 26, 2015
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Only 20K 200GE per month? Is AMD sales that small or will 200GE be missing in stores until they start to produce Raven2-dies instead of salvaged Raven1 dies.
Considering these are 4 core cut down dies, AMD will be cautious with its sale. Only highly defected dies will be cut down as 2 core.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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it looks like the GPU score of the G4560 is around 1000 with dual channel ram, while the a8 9600 is around 1800 with the same DDR4 2400 dual channel

so the 200GE is not THAT far and typically 3dmark11 is not a very good representation, it's more forgiving to low memory performance than most games,
given the 200GE higher memory clock support and just the apparent much better memory performance of the Ryzen APUs, I think it might be an interesting fight in many games, maybe.
This is going to reeplace A8-9600 as the budget cpu for AM4, i hope it is at least very very close, this is very important for 720P gaming.

Still, we are talking about a G4560 class CPU with A6-9500 class igp at Celeron pricing. If it really comes out at those prices its very disruptive at low end, no point in keep using G4560/G5400 with GTX1050/RX560 gpus OR Celeron/Pentiums alone, AT ALL.

At moments like this i think its really a shame that A320 is firmware locked overclock for both CPU and IGP. Also i think we need A300 now, no sure what ever happened there.
 
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This is going to reeplace A8-9600 as the budget cpu for AM4, i hope it is at least very very close, this is very important for 720P gaming.
Keep in mind that AMD made very little progress with weak CPU/"strong" iGPU APUs up through Bristol Ridge. Shaking up the mix a little bit so that they can finally beat a similarly-priced Intel "APU" on both CPU and GPU benchmarks with something like the 200GE is a major win in my opinion, even if the graphics performance might lag compared to older Bristol Ridge products. 720P gaming might matter to some of us here, and to a certain market segment, but you have to look at the bigger picture wrt where these chips will get the majority of their volume (if any).

SFF PCs and NUCs might interest us, but look at what you can get from Dell or HP right now. In fact, here's a taste:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/scc/sc/desktops?~ck=mn&appliedRefinements=62

Notice how none of those machines have any dGPUs? They won't even let you add a dGPU to systems like the ~$350 i3-8100 box in the configuration menu. Anyway, the AMD offerings are the e2-9000e (lulz) and the A6-9225. So we have Stoney Ridge and . . . Stoney Ridge. Yay! Curiously they only seem to want to put those in the sub-$500 AiOs. You can probably get "better" APUs in the more-expensive AiOs, but the bottom line is, Dell isn't putting those chips in their cheapie desktop systems. For good reason.

Taking all that in, we see machines that are universally not suitable for 720P gaming, at least not as configured from Dell. The 200GE will hopefully go into this space, among others. It can replace most of the horrible Stoney Ridge configs, and MAYBE score a few slots in cheapo desktop builds where it'll stack up better against the i3-8100 than Stoney Ridge ever will.

Now if you go up a small price notch:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/scc/sc/desktops?~ck=mn&appliedRefinements=63

You finally find an AMD desktop system that is NOT Stoney Ridge, and it's an A10-9700 + RX 560, squaring off against an i3-8100 + GTX 1050, at the same price point. 200GE vs i3-8100 is an interesting matchup, so at the very least Dell can just drop it in here to replace the 9700 and call it a day. They will probably go right on using whatever dGPUs they have stashed in the closet unless AMD gives them some good reason not to do so (for the same reason that notebook OEMs keep throwing in pointless mobile dGPUs in APU-powered machines). Dell might be better off just ignoring the 200GE by using R3s at that point, though.

Note that Dell isn't using Raven Ridge in any of its forms anywhere. At least not in their low-end desktops anyway.

Still, we are talking about a G4560 class CPU with A6-9500 class igp at Celeron pricing. If it really comes out at those prices its very disruptive at low end, no point in keep using G4560/G5400 with GTX1050/RX560 gpus OR Celeron/Pentiums alone, AT ALL.
If it's going to disrupt a company's product stack (such as the Dell lineup you see above), they won't understand how to use it and/or it'll look like an impediment to them moving parts they have stocked up for their low-end systems.

If you really want to see the 200GE replace systems with GTX 1050s and RX 560s, it'll have to run dual-channel DDR4-2933 at a minimum, which I can tell you right now the OEMs will automatically NOT do. Dell/HP/etc. will want to throw in a single 8 GB DDR4-2400 DIMM and call it a day. That's a major strike against the iGPU. On top of that, Dell clearly won't position anything cheaper than an i3-8100 or A10-9700 (retail $110 and $82, respectively) with a dGPU. So asking Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. to run the 200GE against these builds with a dual-channel config is probably not going to make much headway. Asking the same OEMs to use the Ryzen 3 1200 instead? Sure! They'll go right along with it . . . after they chuck another RX 560 in there. Or they'll use the 200GE to save a few bucks, and add a dGPU for good measure.

The only system builders that will make really good use of the 200GE will be smaller ones that have no real financial incentive to keep copying the same build specs over and over again.

At moments like this i think its really a shame that A320 is firmware locked overclock for both CPU and IGP. Also i think we need A300 now, no sure what ever happened there.
Moments like this make me think it's a shame that big OEMs are effectively hamstrung by their high-volume supply strategy. They buy a small variety of parts in bulk, like DDR4-2400 DIMMs and dGPUs, and then they keep slinging the same hardware in system after system under the assumption that if it's compatible, it's okay. AMD comes along with a low-end chip that COULD reduce BoM considerably by letting the OEM eliminate the dGPU AND perform well at a low price point, and the OEM finds that they have no real incentive to go along with that plan. They would have to run out and get a bunch of extra 2x4GB kits for 8 GB 200GE configurations, the memory speed would almost have to be higher than DDR4-2400, AND they would have nowhere to go with the extra RX 560s they still have sitting in reserve.

You can also bet that all the OEMs will be choking on extra 1060s, 1070s, and possibly other junk since NVidia is force-feeding those into the channel.

If AMD really wants big builders to use this chip, they need to sell BGA boards with 200GEs, 2x4GB DDR4-2933 soldered onto the board, and no full-sized PCIe slots. And they need to sell em cheap. Would Dell, HP, Lenovo, and the others pick up boards like that? Maybe. Throw in the cooling solution with it and AMD could possibly get a lot of AiO design wins. Plus they could finally guarantee that end-users would get all the iGPU performance they've been missing in the past. But if you just ship out trays of the chips, then my guess is the 200GE will replace some Stoney Ridge builds, and you'll get single-channel iGPU performance all up and down the board.

Alternatively, major OEMs may ignore the 200GE altogether in favor of the 2200u. They love using mobile hardware in AiOs.
 
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Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
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Still, we are talking about a G4560 class CPU with A6-9500 class igp at Celeron pricing. If it really comes out at those prices its very disruptive at low end, no point in keep using G4560/G5400 with GTX1050/RX560 gpus OR Celeron/Pentiums alone, AT ALL.
Pretty much the same as happened with the 2200G. Now just at the real budget end. Intel's whole line up below the Core i's have been made redundant.

This thing has the F&F segment covered. Low power, decent CPU performance, enough IGP performance for casual games and doesn't require a particularly fancy mainboard. If the Vega3 supports 4K Netflix, the Athlon will also make a great HTPC chip.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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But keep in mind you cant go too low on IGP otherwise it will be just as useless as the G4560 GT1 for any kind of gaming.

How it runs Fortnite is a big thing for the 200GE. For example, an A6-7400K with dual channel DDR3-1600 can mantain 30fps on 720p@low, Intel GT1 CANT DO THAT, the GT2 can, but a Pentium with GT2 is just too expensive to even mention it.

The A8-9600 is the budget king for entry level 720P gaming and the 200GE its going to replace it. Im expecting the big CPU part to make up for it.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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Only 20K 200GE per month? Is AMD sales that small or will 200GE be missing in stores until they start to produce Raven2-dies instead of salvaged Raven1 dies.
Is it really a salvaged die and not a native 2C/3CU part? For some reason I thought they were doing that.

If it is salvaged, I imagine the supply is directly related to how many dies end up defective.

Wonder if we would see a triple core model with perhaps more CUs at some point.
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
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But keep in mind you cant go too low on IGP otherwise it will be just as useless as the G4560 GT1 for any kind of gaming.

How it runs Fortnite is a big thing for the 200GE. For example, an A6-7400K with dual channel DDR3-1600 can mantain 30fps on 720p@low, Intel GT1 CANT DO THAT, the GT2 can, but a Pentium with GT2 is just too expensive to even mention it.

The A8-9600 is the budget king for entry level 720P gaming and the 200GE its going to replace it. Im expecting the big CPU part to make up for it.
The plus side to the big CPU is that when you upgrade to a discrete GPU down the line, you still have a decently balanced system. I see this as a good way to build a system a piece at a time.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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The plus side to the big CPU is that when you upgrade to a discrete GPU down the line, you still have a decently balanced system. I see this as a good way to build a system a piece at a time.
Yeah that is the problem with the 9600 right now.
 
Mar 10, 2004
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But keep in mind you cant go too low on IGP otherwise it will be just as useless as the G4560 GT1 for any kind of gaming.

How it runs Fortnite is a big thing for the 200GE. For example, an A6-7400K with dual channel DDR3-1600 can mantain 30fps on 720p@low, Intel GT1 CANT DO THAT, the GT2 can, but a Pentium with GT2 is just too expensive to even mention it.

The A8-9600 is the budget king for entry level 720P gaming and the 200GE its going to replace it. Im expecting the big CPU part to make up for it.
G5500T 3.2 2/4 GT2 at 35W for $75 msrp.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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By the Anandtech article, Athlon APU are locked, not OC possible. And there is also a 220GE and a 240GE coming.

240GE may be a 4/4 with Vega 6(2300U), 220GE im not sure.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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G5500T 3.2 2/4 GT2 at 35W for $75 msrp.
To be honest Celeron and Pentium of the 8th gen did not arrived here yet, still im can get G4600 with H110 cheapper for sure.

But it makes no sence, my lowest end right now is the A6-7400K, since DDR3/FM2 is cheap, then it jumps to 9600 and finally 2200G, 2400G, 2200/2400 with dgpus.

On Intel side there is the G3930, G4560, then G4560 with GTX1050s, etc.

To me it makes no sence to use the G4600 and even less the G5500 because the 9600 trash them on IGP alone for less money and the 2200G just destroy them for a bit more, there is really no room for such a thing, unless Intel decides to go on a price war and lower GT2 pentiums to $55. That may be interesting to see if it happens.

Now the 200GE changes everything, there is no point in the entire Intel low end lineup, there is no point in keep using 9600 either. Even the 7400K goes out the window.
 
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There must be a reason that AMD compares it to a 54W GT1 Pentium rather than a 35W GT2 Pentium.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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There must be a reason that AMD compares it to a 54W GT1 Pentium rather than a 35W GT2 Pentium.
Probably because the IGP performs like a GT2, and in cpu is already slower than a G4560 so performance wise its slower than a GT2 Pentium. Maybe even on IGP on some cases, who knows. Still it is at Celeron price ($55 is G4920 price).

The only thing i see surviving at this point is G3930/H110, because G3930 is cheapper and H110 is cheapper than A320 as well.
 
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I wonder if the Pentium 2/4 chips will get the upcoming Coffee Lake R treatment?

It would only be CPU and GPU clock bumps though.

So not much of a change to the comparison to the 200GE.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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I wonder if the Pentium 2/4 chips will get the upcoming Coffee Lake R treatment?

It would only be CPU and GPU clock bumps though.

So not much of a change to the comparison to the 200GE.
Its not only the 200GE there is also a 220GE/240GE, and its likely the 240GE is the desktop version of the 2300U (4/4 w/Vega 6).
Not sure about 220GE, but it may be 2/4 with Vega 6.


With the Intel IGP there is no much they can do, but they need to bring G5500T level to $55, maybe $60, thats for sure, make all Pentiums GT2, and they may need to go 4/4 for the ones going at 70-90. And Celerons need to be 2/4.
 

Bouowmx

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Nov 13, 2016
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Intel Pentium G5500 combo. Problem is: Intel cannot make enough processors. So, advantage to the AMD Athlon in DIY availability (when it is out).
 
Mar 10, 2004
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Its not only the 200GE there is also a 220GE/240GE, and its likely the 240GE is the desktop version of the 2300U (4/4 w/Vega 6).
Not sure about 220GE, but it may be 2/4 with Vega 6.


With the Intel IGP there is no much they can do, but they need to bring G5500T level to $55, maybe $60, thats for sure, make all Pentiums GT2, and they may need to go 4/4 for the ones going at 70-90. And Celerons need to be 2/4.
Presumably the 220GE and 240GE will cost more, though. So that will have to be factored in.
There's always a chance that Intel responds. They could do the EDRAM thing again, but that would cost more as well.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Presumably the 220GE and 240GE will cost more, though. So that will have to be factored in.
There's always a chance that Intel responds. They could do the EDRAM thing again, but that would cost more as well.
By best guess is 220GE at $65 and 240GE at $85, but if those feature Vega 6 there is nothing Intel can do about it, i would attack the 200GE at $55 with a GT2 Pentium and wait for a better IGP if you ask me.
 
Apr 27, 2000
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The A8-9600 is the budget king for entry level 720P gaming and the 200GE its going to replace it. .
Not trying to be pugnacious here, but how many A8-9600s does AMD sell in a quarter? In a year? Plus the previously-stated volumes for the 200GE are very, very low. It's not going to make a big impact on any part of the market if they're only dealing in the low 5 figures of volume.

Chips like that need to go into OE systems en masse to make a splash. The margins can't be that good on them. The goal is to pick up market share, expand brand recognition, and crowd out products that are positioned price-wise against it. You want people to look back years ago, roll their eyes, and say, "Yeah, I still run into 200GE systems here and there because AMD sold millions of the stupid things". It's like you couldn't get away from the horrible dual-core Jaguar variations out there. At least those aren't going into systems anymore, ugh.

The 200GE is only a ~$55 chip. There's no way cost-cutting OEMs are going to pit it against the G5500 (MSRP $80, retails $90+). It's going up against some of AMD's own chips (Stoney Ridge) and the inevitable Goldmont+ chips that go into really cheap desktop systems. For point-of-reference, a Pentium J5005 has an MSRP of $161, though I think that's chip + board. Still, 200GE + mATX or ITX A320 board would still come out cheaper than that, and perform better.
 
Mar 10, 2004
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By best guess is 220GE at $65 and 240GE at $85, but if those feature Vega 6 there is nothing Intel can do about it, i would attack the 200GE at $55 with a GT2 Pentium and wait for a better IGP if you ask me.
But the 2200G Vega 8 is under $100 now.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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The 200GE is only a ~$55 chip. There's no way cost-cutting OEMs are going to pit it against the G5500 (MSRP $80, retails $90+). It's going up against some of AMD's own chips (Stoney Ridge) and the inevitable Goldmont+ chips that go into really cheap desktop systems.
Guess it's worth reiterating that Intel OEMs don't pay anywhere near MSRP prices. Don't know how AMD does it but wouldn't be surprised if it is the same way. Either way you can't really use MSRP for what a Dell would pay.
 

SPBHM

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Thunder 57

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