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AMD Ryzen 5 2400G and Ryzen 3 2200G APUs performance unveiled

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pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
419
161
116
Would the 2200g be a good basis for a 'HTPC/Media Server/I Hate My Mac Mini' build?

I noticed that current mini ITX motherboards lack HDMI 2.0. Is that expected to change with 400 series boards? I'm living that 4k HDR life now but I don't like needing to connect my main PC to the tv to watch stuff.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
763
694
136
What a lot of you seem to be missing is that the R5-2400 will be the premium product available at the top of the stack for uSFF desktops that can't fit a dGPU. The only step up from it will be the MUCH more expensive KL-G chips. From that perspective, and in that market, they actually have a lot of pricing flexibility there. I think, given that niche, which is a non-trivial segment of the market, it is justified for where it is.

When comparing it to non-APU chips coupled with dGPUs that are in the cost leader catagory (RX550/GT1030s) where they are selling make volume over margin, it will never shine. You can always scrape the bottom of both stacks and make a system that will cost a bit less for the performance. The APU makes the most sense where it is inconvenient or impossible to use a dGPU or AIB. Given that constraint, I think that AMD could even charge a bit more for the part and still do well. It would also be a great part for the desktop AIO market if that was still a big thing. Apple could put it in lower end iMacs and make a killing with it.
 

pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
419
161
116
Interesting.

I kind of want to do it myself though and I'm being forced to buy from a physical store (I will be funding this with a stupid Samsung Rewards debit 'card' that only exists in Samsung Pay on my phone). Microcenter's selection of SFF pc's is pretty crappy so I doubt there's much chance that zotac will end up there.

That thing gives me hope that not everything will be hdmi 1.4, at least
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,573
126
What a lot of you seem to be missing is that the R5-2400 will be the premium product available at the top of the stack for uSFF desktops that can't fit a dGPU. The only step up from it will be the MUCH more expensive KL-G chips. From that perspective, and in that market, they actually have a lot of pricing flexibility there. I think, given that niche, which is a non-trivial segment of the market, it is justified for where it is.

When comparing it to non-APU chips coupled with dGPUs that are in the cost leader catagory (RX550/GT1030s) where they are selling make volume over margin, it will never shine. You can always scrape the bottom of both stacks and make a system that will cost a bit less for the performance. The APU makes the most sense where it is inconvenient or impossible to use a dGPU or AIB. Given that constraint, I think that AMD could even charge a bit more for the part and still do well. It would also be a great part for the desktop AIO market if that was still a big thing. Apple could put it in lower end iMacs and make a killing with it.
USFF systems seem to have lower power chips in them, like 35W tdp, and SFF systems seem to be able to take video cards?
The 2200G and 2400G can be set to 45W, though.
 

SirDinadan

Member
Jul 11, 2016
108
64
71
boostclock.com
USFF systems seem to have lower power chips in them, like 35W tdp, and SFF systems seem to be able to take video cards?
The 2200G and 2400G can be set to 45W, though.
I built an FM2+ A10-7860K (65W) APU in a USFF case without any problems. Of course selecting the cooler was a bit of a headache, but in the end everything fell into place.
In Win BQ Series has some very nice options: clean / stylish design and the newer models have higher side panel mesh as well which makes the selection of the cooler easier.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,252
856
136
What a lot of you seem to be missing is that the R5-2400 will be the premium product available at the top of the stack for uSFF desktops that can't fit a dGPU. The only step up from it will be the MUCH more expensive KL-G chips. From that perspective, and in that market, they actually have a lot of pricing flexibility there. I think, given that niche, which is a non-trivial segment of the market, it is justified for where it is.

When comparing it to non-APU chips coupled with dGPUs that are in the cost leader catagory (RX550/GT1030s) where they are selling make volume over margin, it will never shine. You can always scrape the bottom of both stacks and make a system that will cost a bit less for the performance. The APU makes the most sense where it is inconvenient or impossible to use a dGPU or AIB. Given that constraint, I think that AMD could even charge a bit more for the part and still do well. It would also be a great part for the desktop AIO market if that was still a big thing. Apple could put it in lower end iMacs and make a killing with it.
No doubt, anything that cant fit a dGPU or is way too much TDP constrained, these APU are perfect, not only SFF, but AIO too, i do build AIOs with cases that can fit regular pc hardware, these APU are perfect for that.



 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,252
856
136
I didn't know you could build AIOs with standard PC hardware, details please.
There are cases, with include the LCD and speakers build-in, the quality is not great but we had been selling those for 2 years now whiout a issue, the LCD has VGA, HDMI and audio inputs, and every goes screwed on the back, they have a SFX power supply. The LCD is powered by a molex directly off the SFX PSU, and they come with a short VGA and HDMI cable to connect the LCD to the MB. They can also fit a 3.5" HDD or 2 x 2.5" HDD/SSD. They support a mATX motherboard and so far every stock cooler from intel and AMD.

there is a little more bulky model that supports a regular ATX PSU and 1 "MINI" dGPU. The only one i was able to fit in there has a Zotac Mini GTX1050.

Search the internet for "BRB-22 AIO" and "BRB-24 AIO" funny that most links comes off Argentina, its like they are using us for beta testing or something. They probably sell under a diferent chinese name in other areas.



And this is the model that can fit a dGPU, as i said its way too bulky to me:
 
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,252
856
136
Thanks. looks like I learned something new today. How popular are these?
They had been selling, but not many people know those things exist or why they should bother with a custom AIO, there are 2 problems, one is people shooping online for an AIO they go to the know big brands, like HP. And the 2nd is price, those displays are rather decent, or at least they are for our standarts, they all are full HD with HDMI input, this means the total cost of a custom AIO is a little more than the same hardware on a regular cheap pc case with a crappy 720P with vga only monitor.

But the people that actually bother do like the idea we can build an AIO with almost any hardware they want, and that they can be fixed intead of having to throw everything out after the standart 1 year warranty on any branded AIO, the only thing you cant fix is the actual LCD screen, but even if that happen they could buy a monitor and keep using the same hardware.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
51,046
6,385
126
That's actually really neat, thanks for sharing about those custom AIO units. Might have to look those up for importation here in the USA. I know a (former) client that bought a refurb OEM AIO, but it had such a weak low-power AMD CPU, they returned it.

If I could build them a 2200G-based model AIO, I think that they would like it a lot more.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
641
126
Baseless? i think ive made a good point there, the only thing you could come out with was "But but but but Intel does too!" you know i could compare your little escenario to R7 1700 vs R7 1800X right? But im not the one looking for excuses here.
That poster neednt worry, AMD is *very* well represented, especially when it comes to promoting APUs. Meta commentary aside, the situation is not analogous at all. 8700k delivers unmatched, top of the line cpu performance, and top performing products always command an inordinate premium. The 2200 and 2400 are top of the line at nothing except igpu performance, so there are plenty of alternatives to consider, especially to the 2400 which is only marginally cheaper than much better performing hex cores from both makers.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
200
106
Remember that they need to keep a balanced price/performance here, at this point AMD should aim for a good 1080p game experience and nothing more, the $170 of the 2400G is already too much, they just cant increase prices anymore.
Which other 4c/8t CPU w/iGPU are you comparing it to for price? Cheapest Intel I can find is ~$290.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
641
126
Which other 4c/8t CPU w/iGPU are you comparing it to for price? Cheapest Intel I can find is ~$290.
People keep ignoring that the market has changed. I agree the 2400 is too expensive. i5 8400 is only 20.00 more, with an igpu. Certainly the igpu is not as good as the 2400, but cpu performance is better, as well as gaming with a discrete card. And if one wants to game on the igpu (why???), the 2200 is probably more than good enough. Also Ryzen 1600 is only 20.00 more, but has no igpu. The 2400 is simply bracketed by better values, both above and below in price.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
763
694
136
That semi-custom AIO case reminds me of the "micro form factor" VESA mount mini PCs that exist in the thin client and business desktop world. Here's an example:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CF97XCG/ref=psdc_10967501_t2_B01JJMD29U

Now, I absolutely realize that that particular item would be WAY too thermally limited for the 2400g, however, at double the height and with a an M.2 drive, it could have enough thermal dissipation headroom to handle it. As an example, this shuttle product...

https://www.amazon.com/Shuttle-DH170-Skylake-chipset-Heatpipe/dp/B016B6B6PO/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1518245141&sr=1-4-fkmr0&keywords=micro+form+factor+vesa+pc&th=1

which is SPECIFICALLY listed as supporting 65 watt CPUs (actually intel 65W CPUs, which we are all familiar with their thermal excursions).

In my opinion, that seems to give you the best of both worlds. You have a PC that has at least a few items that are readily accessible, that's upgradeable, and can be used in other applications, and you've got the ability to use any size and quality monitor that you want. Want a freesync monitor to go with your AMD APU? It'll do it.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
200
106
People keep ignoring that the market has changed. I agree the 2400 is too expensive. i5 8400 is only 20.00 more, with an igpu. Certainly the igpu is not as good as the 2400, but cpu performance is better, as well as gaming with a discrete card. And if one wants to game on the igpu (why???), the 2200 is probably more than good enough. Also Ryzen 1600 is only 20.00 more, but has no igpu. The 2400 is simply bracketed by better values, both above and below in price.
So the i5 4c/4t out performs the 4c/8t 2400? I wouldn't think so.
 
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wahdangun

Golden Member
Feb 3, 2011
1,004
139
106
No doubt, anything that cant fit a dGPU or is way too much TDP constrained, these APU are perfect, not only SFF, but AIO too, i do build AIOs with cases that can fit regular pc hardware, these APU are perfect for that.




Hmm, how many watts the PSU ?, Can it used standard sff PSU ?
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,363
5,696
136
People keep ignoring that the market has changed. I agree the 2400 is too expensive. i5 8400 is only 20.00 more, with an igpu.
According to this logic no other CPU in the world makes sense except for the 2200G. We simply set aside customer use cases, form factors... anything really, and declare that for the CPU and GPU performance that 2200G puts on the table, every other chip is not worth the money.

What cracks me up the most is we don't even have reviews yet. Can't wait for Monday, at least then any criticism will be standing on facts, not agendas.
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
1,586
243
106
According to this logic no other CPU in the world makes sense except for the 2200G. We simply set aside customer use cases, form factors... anything really, and declare that for the CPU and GPU performance that 2200G puts on the table, every other chip is not worth the money.

What cracks me up the most is we don't even have reviews yet. Can't wait for Monday, at least then any criticism will be standing on facts, not agendas.
That's a rather forlorn hope, alas :(
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
200
106
Assassin's Creed Origins Benchmark, Is The Core i5 Dead? Maybe Not!
Not to mention what would happen on older titles or games that are less multi-threadded than origins.

CPU performance is measured in more than games. And there are applications that it would make a more noticeable difference than a few FPS.

And what's the MSRP of the 7600K? $250, I believe? The 1500X is $200, I think? We're talking about a $170 APU. What's the RAM speed used? What's the clocks?
 
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french toast

Senior member
Feb 22, 2017
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Assassin's Creed Origins Benchmark, Is The Core i5 Dead? Maybe Not!
Not to mention what would happen on older titles or games that are less multi-threadded than origins.

CPU performance is measured in more than games. And there are applications that it would make a more noticeable difference than a few FPS.

And what's the MSRP of the 7600K? $250, I believe? The 1500X is $200, I think? We're talking about a $170 APU. What's the RAM speed used? What's the clocks?
Exactly, what a bogus comparison.
A quick Search for prices in my country I get.
1500x = £136.
7600k = £181.
That's not taking into consideration motherboards or coolers, upgradability, or even using other apps to compare.
A better comparison in price, tdp count is i5 7400..which retails for the same price where i live £136.
https://youtu.be/QWTBaasy2uU
At stock speeds 1500x is clearly faster in gaming and much faster all round...and it can be overclocked which i5 can't.
(i3 8100 is much better value than both in pure price/perf).

On topic, 2400g is excellent value.
 
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