Question AMD Rembrandt/Zen 3+ APU Speculation and Discussion

[izaic3]

Alright, so we've had some leaks so far. I don't know if any of it's been confirmed yet, as it's pretty early, but here is what I've surmised so far (massive grain of salt of course):

• Zen 3 "enhanced"
• DDR5 and LPDDR5 support
• PCIE4
• 6nm
• CVML
• Navi 2/RDNA/RDNA 2
• 12 CU
• Socket FP7/AM5
• Possible USB4
• 2021(unlikely) -2022 (more likely) release date

If if turns out to have RDNA 2 and 12 CU, I could see iGPU performance potentially almost doubling over Cezanne.

If I've made any mistakes or gotten anything wrong, please let me know. I'd also love to hear more knowledgeable people weigh in on their expectations.

 

[ahimsa42]

Uptake has been pretty slow. AMD claimed there would be laptops available by the end of February.

agreed. hopefully 6800U availability won't be scarce as decent 5800U laptops were. the rumor is that May/June will be the release timeline for U series so they may not be widely available until the fall?

 

[moinmoin]

For Germany Geizhals currently lists 18 models containing Rembrandt, 9 of them in stock.

All of them are using 6800H/HS or 6900HX variants though, so maybe lower models haven't been shipped yet?

 

[nicalandia]

Cezanne has a lot of dark silicon thanks to literally being Renoir with a haphazard Zen 3 CCX transplant.

Cezanne is stuck in the middle now. Between Renoir and Rembrandt, there's not much reason for it to exist anymore.

Haphazard? More like modularity and easy of build with Zen Building blocks and having a powerful Zen3 CPUs is a very good reason to exist

 

[HurleyBird]

Haphazard? More like modularity and easy of build with Zen Building blocks and having a powerful Zen3 CPUs is a very good reason to exist

It's compatibility, not modularity. This is analogous to changing out a Pentium 2 for a Pentium 3 on the same motherboard. What we call the "uncore" nowadays used to be disaggregated among external chips instead of sharing the same silicon as compute resources.

Modularity, on the other hand, would mean not having to waste 44% of your die size increase on dark silicon.

Cezanne was a lazy port of Zen 3, but lazy ports aren't necessarily bad. Everything is a trade-off. In this case, lower upfront costs and faster development vs. higher long term costs and less optimized. Probably the wrong decision with benefit of hindsight given the silicon shortage, but at the time it may have looked like the better choice.

 

[movdx]

For Germany Geizhals currently lists 18 models containing Rembrandt, 9 of them in stock.

All of them are using 6800H/HS or 6900HX variants though, so maybe lower models haven't been shipped yet?

The correct term I would say is 18 configurations, laptop models are significantly less.
9 configurations in stock 3 months after the presentation, without any U, I would not call it success for AMD.

 

[jpiniero]

The correct term I would say is 18 configurations, laptop models are significantly less.
9 configurations in stock 3 months after the presentation, without any U, I would not call it success for AMD.

Kind of wondering if this is some evidence of slowing laptop sales.

 

[tamz_msc]

Kind of wondering if this is some evidence of slowing laptop sales.

AMD always prioritizes -H CPUs. The -U CPUs are always late and in short supply.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The -U CPUs are always late and in short supply.

Bad strategy. Most people want thin and powerful laptops. Their easily available U-CPU right now is the 5500U, followed by some laptop models sporting the 5700U. I haven't seen many with 5600U and 5800U.

 

[Thibsie]

Bad strategy. Most people want thin and powerful laptops. Their easily available U-CPU right now is the 5500U, followed by some laptop models sporting the 5700U. I haven't seen many with 5600U and 5800U.

Bad strategy. Most people want thin and powerful laptops. Their easily available U-CPU right now is the 5500U, followed by some laptop models sporting the 5700U. I haven't seen many with 5600U and 5800U.

No IMO. Just easier to design for H CPUs an easier to bin.

 

[ahimsa42]

Bad strategy. Most people want thin and powerful laptops. Their easily available U-CPU right now is the 5500U, followed by some laptop models sporting the 5700U. I haven't seen many with 5600U and 5800U.

exactly. as my original post said, i hope this will not be repeated with the 6800U models. imo it makes little sense to buy an H laptop with a dcpu as the igpu only laptops will cost much less and will do everything most people are looking for. time will tell but if AMD waits too long rolling out 6800U's, many consumers just may decide to wait for phoenix & zen4.

 

[DrMrLordX]

many consumers just may decide to wait for phoenix & zen4.

Not like that would hurt AMD.

 

[burninatortech4]

Bad strategy. Most people want thin and powerful laptops. Their easily available U-CPU right now is the 5500U, followed by some laptop models sporting the 5700U. I haven't seen many with 5600U and 5800U.

There are multiple 5400U models if you are okay with dropping to 4c/8t

 

[Rannar]

exactly. as my original post said, i hope this will not be repeated with the 6800U models. imo it makes little sense to buy an H laptop with a dcpu as the igpu only laptops will cost much less and will do everything most people are looking for. time will tell but if AMD waits too long rolling out 6800U's, many consumers just may decide to wait for phoenix & zen4.

wouldn't with phoenix and zen4 cycle start from beginning with even more waiting? 5nm production even more limited at this phase.

 

[moinmoin]

The correct term I would say is 18 configurations, laptop models are significantly less.

They are individual offers with individual availability. I'll call them variants next time.

9 configurations in stock 3 months after the presentation, without any U, I would not call it success for AMD.

Some people keep claiming Rembrandt laptops are not available. They are. Moving of goalposts doesn't change that fact.

 

[jpiniero]

Some people keep claiming Rembrandt laptops are not available. They are.

OEMs and Retailers are sure doing a good job of hiding them. Only place I found that had any in the US is Best Buy... and it was by accident since there isn't a 6000 Series filter. Most of them had "Coming Soon" too but there were some in stock.

 

[movdx]

They are individual offers with individual availability. I'll call them variants next time.

You call call them whatever you like. You can count them as units sold by AMD. For sure a laptop model is Toshiba ABC screen size, how many cores or different size of SSD make the configuration.

Some people keep claiming Rembrandt laptops are not available. They are. Moving of goalposts doesn't change that fact.

A few posts above your post are some posts saying that Rembrandt laptops are difficult to find. You chose to ignore it. As I told you a few pages ago we are not all living in Germany or the US. You chose to ignore it too. You want to be cocky and hear you are right? Is that going to satisfy you? Fine you are right.

As I was seeking a laptop with 5600U or 5800U in my country for a relative, I could find 13 laptops with 5600U and 21 laptops with 5800U. I barely find with 5400U and the biggest amount is the 5600H 98? The numbers I provide are with your counting, so what I got from searching about the according ryzen model, I did not even care about variants/configurations.

 

[ahimsa42]

wouldn't with phoenix and zen4 cycle start from beginning with even more waiting? 5nm production even more limited at this phase.

if that happens then i think it likely that many may look to intel for their laptop. AMD has great products but unless they work on the availability aspects, consumers may begin to lose patience & seek other alternatives.

 

[Thibsie]

Why would you get half the battery life, worse price and be happy ?

 

[LightningZ71]

I'm quite interested in seeing a comparison between the 6600u and the 5700u. If what I've read is true that the 3 WGP / 6 CU version of the iGPU in Rembrandt is roughly comparable to the 8CU Vega in Lucienne and Cezanne, then the comparison is going to come down to CPU performance, which doesn't differ greatly from Cezanne, save for MT workloads. Will the two extra cores and four extra threads make for a notably different system? The 5700u is often available for very good prices. That's going to put a hard ceiling on 6600u systems.

 

[izaic3]

Some mini pc info

While this needs to be taken with a grain of salt, do you forsee laptops being delayed as well, or do you think this will mostly affect mini pcs as they probably get very low priority.

 

[andermans]

Some mini pc info

While this needs to be taken with a grain of salt, do you forsee laptops being delayed as well, or do you think this will mostly affect mini pcs as they probably get very low priority.

It isn't as quiet as that post makes it sound though. Like here is a demo of a mini-pc with a 6900hs targeting release around this summer for now:

 

[ahimsa42]

i think if 6800U's don't start showing up in laptops in May/June then it may be time to consider that their availability may be similar to the zen3 5000 series market. i'm keeping an eye on lenovo, hp, acer & asus for product annoucements so hoping for good memorial day/4th of july sales to upgrade from my current 4500U.

 

[Thibsie]

Proper thinkpads with 5000 ryzens were not available till august/September in Belgium. I'm talking about P14s/T14 etc. Low end ones like E series were but not my cup of tea.

 

[burninatortech4]

Proper thinkpads with 5000 ryzens were not available till august/September in Belgium. I'm talking about P14s/T14 etc. Low end ones like E series were but not my cup of tea.

L14 Gen 2 is awesome build quality. Definitely better than E-series. Only $600 (upgraded the RAN and SSD myself to save costs).

 

[Thibsie]

L14 Gen 2 is awesome build quality. Definitely better than E-series. Only $600 (upgraded the same myself to save costs).

Indeed, forgot the L serie. Too bad they can't be built to order here.