Question AMD Rembrandt/Zen 3+ APU Speculation and Discussion

[izaic3]

Alright, so we've had some leaks so far. I don't know if any of it's been confirmed yet, as it's pretty early, but here is what I've surmised so far (massive grain of salt of course):

• Zen 3 "enhanced"
• DDR5 and LPDDR5 support
• PCIE4
• 6nm
• CVML
• Navi 2/RDNA/RDNA 2
• 12 CU
• Socket FP7/AM5
• Possible USB4
• 2021(unlikely) -2022 (more likely) release date

If if turns out to have RDNA 2 and 12 CU, I could see iGPU performance potentially almost doubling over Cezanne.

If I've made any mistakes or gotten anything wrong, please let me know. I'd also love to hear more knowledgeable people weigh in on their expectations.

 

[leoneazzurro]

Rembrandt true aim is the thin&light market. It may lose in absolute CPU performance to the &P+8E parts but it will likely be more than competitive against the 2P+8E parts, and with better intergated graphics performance, which is a big selling point in a market segment where the only alternatives to the iGPU are the Geforce MX series external GPUs (which add complexity and reduce the battery life).

 

[ahimsa42]

Rembrandt true aim is the thin&light market. It may lose in absolute CPU performance to the &P+8E parts but it will likely be more than competitive against the 2P+8E parts, and with better intergated graphics performance, which is a big selling point in a market segment where the only alternatives to the iGPU are the Geforce MX series external GPUs (which add complexity and reduce the battery life).

exactly. from the leaks rembrandt is better than current GF MX too though.

 

[moinmoin]

Intel 1280p Leak

"a base TDP of 28W and a turbo power rating of 64W"
"a 45W base TDP and a turbo power rating of up to 115W"

This development is plain stupid in "mobile" devices.

 

[leoneazzurro]

exactly. from the leaks rembrandt is better than current GF MX too though.

It must be seen, the only tests I saw were against the lowest wattage SKU, but on the other hand a higher wattage part will weight significantly on the battery life.

 

[movdx]

I wonder if we are going to see any sample of Rembrandt before Easter and any real availability before summer, otherwise AMD should go directly to phoenix.

 

[moinmoin]

It's essentially the same every year with each new mobile gen: slow trickle in H1 and good availability in H2.

 

[movdx]

There was not at all good availability for Cezanne.

 

[moinmoin]

There was not at all good availability for Cezanne.

sighs... Yes, by H2 last year there was if you knew what to look for and were flexible regarding manufacturer and model. There likely wasn't if you were waiting for a specific model that was already sold out.

 

[ahimsa42]

hoping that igpu benchmarks & pricing will begin showing up in Feb with models available for purchase in March. also hoping that there will be decent igpu only options. i would assume that like renoir & cezzane, U models be the first one's out with H laptops coming later?

 

[movdx]

sighs... Yes, by H2 last year there was if you knew what to look for and were flexible regarding manufacturer and model. There likely wasn't if you were waiting for a specific model that was already sold out.

https://www.toppreise.ch/produktsuche?q=5800u&cid=

https://www.toppreise.ch/produktsuche?q=5600u&cid=

https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/MainSearchProductCategory.html?q=ryzen+5600u

https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/MainSearchProductCategory.html?q=ryzen+5800u

 

[moinmoin]

https://www.toppreise.ch/produktsuche?q=5800u&cid=

https://www.toppreise.ch/produktsuche?q=5600u&cid=

https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/MainSearchProductCategory.html?q=ryzen+5600u

https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/MainSearchProductCategory.html?q=ryzen+5800u

I'm not sure what you try to prove with this bunch of unannotated links to a few specific mobile chips.

Geizhals allows to search by code name, Cezanne has 416 models listed, the most of any AMD mobile gen so far, next is Lucienne with 316 and Renoir with 281.

Of those 416 Cezanne models 358 are readily available (within 4 workdays) and 304 are in stock somewhere.

 

[movdx]

I'm not sure what you try to prove with this bunch of unannotated links to a few specific mobile chips.

Geizhals allows to search by code name, Cezanne has 416 models listed, the most of any AMD mobile gen so far, next is Lucienne with 316 and Renoir with 281.

Of those 416 Cezanne models 358 are readily available (within 4 workdays) and 304 are in stock somewhere.

How many times HP Probook 435, 445 and 455 appear on the list you provide?
In the first 10 we have 8 Probooks and 1 HP and 1 Lenovo. Having a ton of configurations for 1 model does not mean high availability.

But then we come to that:

sighs... Yes, by H2 last year there was if you knew what to look for and were flexible regarding manufacturer and model.

Also remember that not everybody is located in a big market like Germany.

 

[leoneazzurro]

How many times HP Probook 435, 445 and 455 appear on the list you provide?
In the first 10 we have 8 Probooks and 1 HP and 1 Lenovo. Having a ton of configurations for 1 model does not mean high availability.

I'm not sure what your point is. The listings are per offer by vendor and ordered by price, so it's quite normal seeing same model grouped in multiple rows, and if you went after the first page there are tens of models other than the Probook from multiple vendors (Lenovo, Acer, Asus, MSI, even Dell) and all of them available. Not even speaking about the fact that in many cases you can have your laptop delivered across Europe.
But if you want to speak about Switzerland (which is just near Germany) it seems we have some availability even there

Laptop online kaufen » Notebooks | ALTERNATE

Laptop kaufen » GroÃe Auswahl & Markenvielfalt â Laptops / Notebooks â Top Preise & schneller Versand â Ratenkauf möglich » Jetzt bestellen

www.alternate.ch

(I set up the price as descending so the Cezanne parts are immediately displayed).

And yes, the availability last year was poor until H2, then it went up considerably.

 

[Thibsie]

Also remember that not everybody is located in a big market like Germany.

Or would be able to work with a german keyboard.

 

[Thibsie]

And yes, the availability last year was poor until H2, then it went up considerably.

And some are still missing in Europe, let's say Thinkpad x13 AMD gen2.
There's no L13 or E13 in AMD and no x1 AMD either so it really is annoying to me.

 

[leoneazzurro]

Or would be able to work with a german keyboard.

I live in Italy and there are plenty of models available here, too, with a national keyboard. Pretty sure situation is the same in France, Spain, UK.

And some are still missing in Europe, let's say Thinkpad x13 AMD gen2.
There's no L13 or E13 in AMD and no x1 AMD either so it really is annoying to me.

Well, that's more a Lenovo issue. As stated, the Cezanne CPU are on the market now. If a vendor chooses to not prioritize some of its models, it's not AMD's fault.

 

[movdx]

I'm not sure what your point is. The listings are per offer by vendor and ordered by price, so it's quite normal seeing same model grouped in multiple rows, and if you went after the first page there are tens of models other than the Probook from multiple vendors (Lenovo, Acer, Asus, MSI, even Dell) and all of them available. Not even speaking about the fact that in many cases you can have your laptop delivered across Europe.
But if you want to speak about Switzerland (which is just near Germany) it seems we have some availability even there

Laptop online kaufen » Notebooks | ALTERNATE

Laptop kaufen » GroÃe Auswahl & Markenvielfalt â Laptops / Notebooks â Top Preise & schneller Versand â Ratenkauf möglich » Jetzt bestellen

www.alternate.ch

(I set up the price as descending so the Cezanne parts are immediately displayed).

And yes, the availability last year was poor until H2, then it went up considerably.

Let me give you an example, from the german page given:

I chose Dell with 14 models: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&v=k&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl&sort=p&bl1_id=30&xf=525_Dell~9690_Cezanne
Yes but the laptops as models are 2: G15 and alienware m15 and if I count the different cpu options are 4
From the same page Lenovo does better and has more models.

Now let's take a look at the market.
For example in Switzerland the T14 and T14s from the official lenovo page are almost non available the whole year.

Wählen Sie das am besten geeignete Notebook aus | Lenovo Switzerland

Notebook oder Convertible gesucht? Hier gibt‘s Top-Angebote von Lenovo. Kostenlose Lieferung. Jetzt günstig online oder telefonisch kaufen unter 044 5291040

www.lenovo.com

And here the whole page where you can pick cezanne(watch out for Lucienne)

Wählen Sie das am besten geeignete Notebook aus | Lenovo Switzerland

Notebook oder Convertible gesucht? Hier gibt‘s Top-Angebote von Lenovo. Kostenlose Lieferung. Jetzt günstig online oder telefonisch kaufen unter 044 5291040

www.lenovo.com

You can try to do the same for Dell and so on.

So I feel that the market comment is valid.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Or would be able to work with a german keyboard.

Trust me. If you regularly write German, a keyboard with German layout is a big help. Otherwise you quickly run into having to insert all the special characters manually.

I keep a cheap Logitech K120 around for that reason.

Edit; It isn't a big deal to write Danish on an English layout. We have the "smart" option of writing our three special characters using two ASCI characters instead. Æ = AE, Ø = OE and Å = AA.

 

[leoneazzurro]

Let me give you an example, from the german page given:

I chose Dell with 14 models: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&v=k&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl&sort=p&bl1_id=30&xf=525_Dell~9690_Cezanne
Yes but the laptops as models are 2: G15 and alienware m15 and if I count the different cpu options are 4
From the same page Lenovo does better and has more models.

Now let's take a look at the market.
For example in Switzerland the T14 and T14s from the official lenovo page are almost non available the whole year.

Wählen Sie das am besten geeignete Notebook aus | Lenovo Switzerland

Notebook oder Convertible gesucht? Hier gibt‘s Top-Angebote von Lenovo. Kostenlose Lieferung. Jetzt günstig online oder telefonisch kaufen unter 044 5291040

www.lenovo.com

And here the whole page where you can pick cezanne(watch out for Lucienne)

Wählen Sie das am besten geeignete Notebook aus | Lenovo Switzerland

Notebook oder Convertible gesucht? Hier gibt‘s Top-Angebote von Lenovo. Kostenlose Lieferung. Jetzt günstig online oder telefonisch kaufen unter 044 5291040

www.lenovo.com

You can try to do the same for Dell and so on.

So I feel that the market comment is valid.

But I showed you pages where there are tons of models (included Lenovo and Dells) with Cezanne which are available. So yes, it seems Lenovo and Dell are doing a bad job at managing Cezanne deliveries, but the CPUs are present in shops, and not in very tight quantities, so I don't know how your comment may be applied at the market as a whole and not only on very specific models from some vendors.

 

[moinmoin]

In short: Availability of Cezanne chips is perfectly fine. As I wrote before if you ignore brands and models they are readily available (and diversity of offers is increasing gen over gen). In what models and form factors the ODMs and laptop brands put them in, and in which regions they are selectively sold or not is not in AMD's hands.

 

[eek2121]

Some countries may have availability issues, but their issues do not represent availability as a whole. If a country typically has poor laptop or AMD sales, AMD isn’t going to waste chips by sending them there, neither are laptop makers.

I bought a Cezanne based laptop last year in H1 after reviewing several models. All were in stock. There were an abundance of models.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

"a base TDP of 28W and a turbo power rating of 64W"
"a 45W base TDP and a turbo power rating of up to 115W"

This development is plain stupid in "mobile" devices.

The "turbo" is fine, logical even. It's just there if it's plugged in, works perfectly well with the new macbook pros. So why shouldn't everyone else do it? Sure the fans will be loud, but you paid for that chip, you might as well get the most you can out of it if you want.

 

[trivik12]

Any idea when Rembrandt U series laptops will be available. I need to buy one before end of Q1 and I hope I can get a Rembrandt if possible.

 

[tamz_msc]

Any idea when Rembrandt U series laptops will be available. I need to buy one before end of Q1 and I hope I can get a Rembrandt if possible.

April is more likely.

 

[moinmoin]

The "turbo" is fine, logical even. It's just there if it's plugged in, works perfectly well with the new macbook pros. So why shouldn't everyone else do it? Sure the fans will be loud, but you paid for that chip, you might as well get the most you can out of it if you want.

The new Macbook Pros don't use Alder Lake, and Apple's M1 series doesn't use such insanely inefficient turbos. And no, the "turbo" is not fine in a mobile device. You can argue for DTR but those are not mobile, those are stationary battery burners that could as well not contain a battery.

Any idea when Rembrandt U series laptops will be available. I need to buy one before end of Q1 and I hope I can get a Rembrandt if possible.

At CES it was announced that "notebook availability starting February"

But I doubt you will have a big variety of choices by the end of Q1, in the last years it took until H2 to get to that point (but by then you'll get good sales on the previous gen as well).