Question AMD Rembrandt/Zen 3+ APU Speculation and Discussion

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I

izaic3

Member
Nov 19, 2019
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Alright, so we've had some leaks so far. I don't know if any of it's been confirmed yet, as it's pretty early, but here is what I've surmised so far (massive grain of salt of course):

If if turns out to have RDNA 2 and 12 CU, I could see iGPU performance potentially almost doubling over Cezanne.

If I've made any mistakes or gotten anything wrong, please let me know. I'd also love to hear more knowledgeable people weigh in on their expectations.
 
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A

ahimsa42

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Jul 16, 2016
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TESKATLIPOKA said:
How many Cezanne laptops with 16GB RAM within that price bracket can you find in your country?
In my country(Slovakia) a big retailer offered only 2 models of HP ProBook 455 G8 for <900€ including VAT, the rest was >980€ including VAT.

edit: I am personally quite sceptical about the prices of Rembrandt.
Click to expand...
a quick amazon search displayed a few models under $900 in the US. i will say that AMD made it hard with the zen2/zen3 mix on 5?00 CPU's.
 
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FlameTail

FlameTail

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Dec 15, 2021
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Spicy said:
ADL-P 8+8 and Raphael-H 16c have a tiny iGPU. They need dGPU. I hope there will also be Rembrandt H, without dgpu.

It's interesting to know that Raphael mobile were planned since at least March 2020. I only heard Raphael-H recently.

edit: sorry, I meant Phoenix-H, not RMB-H, since Raphael-H is the next generation to come along with Phoenix-U (at least).
Click to expand...

So you are saying that Raphael-H will max out st 16 cores ? Crazy. 5980HX maxes out at 8 cores, half the core count of the top-of-the-line 5950X.
 
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F

flatwhite

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2021
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TESKATLIPOKA said:
A picture of Rembrandt APU.
Videocardz

P.S. The GPU has only 5 memory chips, so It should be a RX 6700M 10GB.
Click to expand...
hmm, does that mean it Rembrandt APU should support TB4 for sure? I could see 2 x USB 4.0 port in the picture.
DDR5 is dump, at least for the 1st iteration. More for marketing purpose that AMD is keeping up with Intel.
10Gb Ethernet and more PCIe lanes for NVMe storage is far more interesting...
 
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BorisTheBlade82

BorisTheBlade82

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May 1, 2020
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FlameTail said:
So you are saying that Raphael-H will max out st 16 cores ? Crazy. 5980HX maxes out at 8 cores, half the core count of the top-of-the-line 5950X.
Click to expand...
Make no mistake: Raphael-H will be a chiplet design consisting of 2 5nm CCD and an 6nm IOD. It will basically be the same as a 7950X.

With this in mind there are IMHO 2 options:
  • They keep IFOP as the interconnect. Energy efficiency and consumption will be horrible from a mobile perspective. This will basically be a desktop replacement - nothing else.
  • They do something like EFB bringing energy efficiency almost on par with a monolithic solution.
Sadly ATM I think option 1 is much more likely. We know that they keep IFOP for Genoa. And I simply cannot believe that they are doing a CCD being able to connect to both. OTOH. This could explain why the die size of CCD and IOD did not shrink that much given the process advantage. Maybe it gave them some spare area for an iGPU due to pad limitation in the first place? Anyone with more knowledge?

edit: Typo
 
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ahimsa42

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Jul 16, 2016
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BorisTheBlade82 said:
Make no mistake: Rembrandt-H will be a chiplet design consisting of 2 5nm CCD and an 6nm IOD. It will basically be the same as a 7950X.

With this in mind there are IMHO 2 options:
  • They keep IFOP as the interconnect. Energy efficiency and consumption will be horrible from a mobile perspective. This will basically be a desktop replacement - nothing else.
  • They do something like EFB bringing energy efficiency almost on par with a monolithic solution.
Sadly ATM I think option 1 is much more likely. We know that they keep IFOP for Genoa. And I simply cannot believe that they are doing a CCD being able to connect to both. OTOH. This could explain why the die size of CCD and IOD did not shrink that much given the process advantage. Maybe it gave them some spare area for an iGPU due to pad limitation in the first place? Anyone with more knowledge?
Click to expand...
no idea about the actual mechanism but everything i have read claimed that RMB will offer a good increase in energy efficiency over cezanne.
 
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J

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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FlameTail said:
So you are saying that Raphael-H will max out st 16 cores ? Crazy. 5980HX maxes out at 8 cores, half the core count of the top-of-the-line 5950X.
Click to expand...

There's been some DTRs that use the existing desktop processors that go up to 16 cores. But it really needs an IGP to help battery life.

gdansk said:
Back to Picasso size. But I wonder how much is really the GPU given all those other improvements
Click to expand...

Thunderbolt takes up a nice chunk on Tiger Lake so it's possible that is also the case with the USB4. Gotta say I think I would rather have 32 MB L3.
 
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ahimsa42

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Jul 16, 2016
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leaks suggest that there will be 24 FP7 SKU's from 28-45W. is it possible that due to RDNA2 power requirements, there will not be any 15W U APU's?
 
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Mopetar

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flatwhite said:
DDR5 is dump, at least for the 1st iteration. More for marketing purpose that AMD is keeping up with Intel.
Click to expand...

I think the DDR5 is more important for the bandwidth. APUs have always been starved in this area and AMD is making a huge leap from 8 Vega CUs to 12 RDNA2 CUs.

For anyone who just wants a PC for some casual gaming, this is going to be a great chip. The RX 6400 (Navi 24) which is the bottom of the GPU stack will also have 12 CU so this is going to slot in right below that.

I don't know if it's been confirmed to be AM5 or not yet for the desktop parts, but if so it might actually be a great chip to snag for anyone who wants to start building a new PC without having to pay through the nose on a GPU.
 
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moinmoin

moinmoin

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flatwhite said:
hmm, does that mean it Rembrandt APU should support TB4 for sure? I could see 2 x USB 4.0 port in the picture.
Click to expand...
USB4 is a subset of TB4. TB4 should be possible as Rembrandt supports 40 Gbps. Whether a given Rembrandt laptop supports TB4 depends on how the laptop implements it. To qualify a port as TB4 (instead just a collection of USB4 options) the laptop has to support on that port:
  • 40 Gbps
  • 32 Gbps for PCIe
  • two 4K/one K8 display
  • charging
  • wake from sleep
  • 4 TB port hub with 15W power
  • Thunderbolt Networking
I'm not sure what of this can and is implemented right in Rembrandt already and what depends on further components and implementations the manufacturer has to consider.

See also:
thunderbolt4-comparison-chart.jpg

newsroom.intel.com

Newsroom Home

Intel Newsroom home page
newsroom.intel.com newsroom.intel.com
 
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andermans

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Sep 11, 2020
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moinmoin said:
USB4 is a subset of TB4. TB4 should be possible as Rembrandt supports 40 Gbps. Whether a given Rembrandt laptop supports TB4 depends on how the laptop implements it. To qualify a port as TB4 (instead just a collection of USB4 options) the laptop has to support on that port:
  • 40 Gbps
  • 32 Gbps for PCIe
  • two 4K/one K8 display
  • charging
  • wake from sleep
  • 4 TB port hub with 15W power
  • Thunderbolt Networking
I'm not sure what of this can and is implemented right in Rembrandt already and what depends on further components and implementations the manufacturer has to consider.

See also:
thunderbolt4-comparison-chart.jpg

newsroom.intel.com

Newsroom Home

Intel Newsroom home page
newsroom.intel.com newsroom.intel.com
Click to expand...

Wait, isn't the Intel Vt-d requirement going to make this effectively Intel only? Or is the AMD equivalent also allowed?
 
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moinmoin

moinmoin

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andermans said:
Wait, isn't the Intel Vt-d requirement going to make this effectively Intel only? Or is the AMD equivalent also allowed?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure generic isolation is required. Intel being Intel will of course toot its own horn there. M1 sure doesn't implement Intel VT-d specifically but still sports TB ports.
 
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