Question AMD Rembrandt/Zen 3+ APU Speculation and Discussion

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izaic3

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Nov 19, 2019
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Alright, so we've had some leaks so far. I don't know if any of it's been confirmed yet, as it's pretty early, but here is what I've surmised so far (massive grain of salt of course):

If if turns out to have RDNA 2 and 12 CU, I could see iGPU performance potentially almost doubling over Cezanne.

If I've made any mistakes or gotten anything wrong, please let me know. I'd also love to hear more knowledgeable people weigh in on their expectations.
 
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Spicy

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Hans de Vries said:
Raphael will have PCIe 5.0,
Click to expand...

I hadn't watched the video, just some comments. I heard "PCIe 5.0 for AM5 plateform", not precisely "Zen 4". But he says "2022". So, maybe.
The first rumors said Zen 4 with PCIe 4, so I prefer to remain cautious.

No Hybrid Architecture
Click to expand...
Rembrandt, Phoenix,... Strix Point. So it's very far. A lot can happen between now and then. And in any case, only for mobile plateform, never for desktop (except G series?).
And several patents have already leaked, we know they are working on it (even though they may never release anything).
Anyway, I was posting this for the Infinity Cache part
There's also a new L4 cache system to be incorporated on AMD Strix Point APUs which is going to work as a system-level cache. The rumor states that the hybrid approach could only be a mobile-specific launch while desktop chips will rely on the same monolithic design. It will be really interesting to see whether AMD uses its X3D packaging technology for Strix Point APUs as it does sound like the next logical path in the development of MCM APUs.


So far, AMD APUs have been offering a monolithic design with all IPs (CPU/GPU/IO) onboard the same die. Technologies such as Infinity Cache and GPU IPs such as RDNA 3 are also expected to debut with Strix Point Ryzen APUs. Once again, this is all just a rumor but we can definitely expect lots of interesting developments in the APU segment in the years to come.
Click to expand...


edit: a new "Fabric" monster, to dispatch task between big and LITTLE cores:
 
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Hans de Vries

Hans de Vries

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www.chip-architect.com
Spicy said:
I hadn't watched the video, just some comments. I heard "PCIe 5.0 for AM5 plateform", not precisely "Zen 4". But he says "2022". So, maybe.
The first rumors said Zen 4 with PCIe 4, so I prefer to remain cautious.
Click to expand...

They try so hard these poor AMD guys, to tell the world all about their new products. But then the world rather believes the rumors from the Metaverse...

Zen 4 has PCIe 5, and thus it has PCIe 4 as well as PCIe 3 and PCIe 2 and so on. There were drawings of a (presumably cheaper) motherboard that only used up to PCIe 4. Other boards will have PCIe 5.

Spicy said:
Rembrandt, Phoenix,... Strix Point. So it's very far. A lot can happen between now and then. And in any case, only for mobile plateform, never for desktop (except G series?).
Click to expand...

That's not very far out in time. I wouldn't be surprised if Zen 5 has already taped out.
 
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Spicy

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Sure, but Warhol would have been deprogrammed at the last moment.
Were they sure their V-Cache was going to be ready in time? Perhaps they were hesitating between Warhol and Vermer3D?
Was Zen+ really planned in their initial roadmap?
I think we could have had Zen 2 earlier (but maybe not as well finished/optimized), if Intel had been more aggressive at the time. (I remember an interview with AMD in 2017/2018 saying that they expected a fightback from Intel, but that they had the means to respond. But the Intel's counterattack never came.)
Maybe Zen 4 will come with pcie 5.0, but would that have been the case, if Intel hadn't released it as early as 2021?
I think it's a last minute change of plans (easy enough, since located on the IODie and Epyc/Threadripper's IODie was known to have it, according to earliest rumors, but not Ryzen).
 
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xilli_fiberbit

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May 17, 2020
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ZEN at first supported only PCIe 3.0 and then AMD has moved to PCIe 4.0, but it hasn't waited Intel for that. AMD has still stuck with capacity of 7nm and Apple taking all the 5nm.

Milan-x will be announced on 8th november, maybe will have something on the Ryzen side between that and the CES
 
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Joe NYC

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xilli_fiberbit said:
ZEN at first supported only PCIe 3.0 and then AMD has moved to PCIe 4.0, but it hasn't waited Intel for that. AMD has still stuck with capacity of 7nm and Apple taking all the 5nm.

Milan-x will be announced on 8th november, maybe will have something on the Ryzen side between that and the CES
Click to expand...

It would be a slight change in plans if Milan X is indeed announced on Nov 8, because Lisa Su mentioned that V-Cache would debut in Ryzen.

There were already leaks of some Milan X SKUs but none for Ryzen 3D SKUs.
 
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ahimsa42

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as far as rembrandt & DDR5-since DDR5 is supposed to be manufactured in 16GB does that mean that one would have to have 32GB of RAM in order to have dual channel on a laptop? i have read that even with renoir dual channel RAM can make a major difference in gaming performance so would assume that this will be the case even more so with an RDNA2 APU.
 
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Rannar

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ahimsa42 said:
as far as rembrandt & DDR5-since DDR5 is supposed to be manufactured in 16GB does that mean that one would have to have 32GB of RAM in order to have dual channel on a laptop? i have read that even with renoir dual channel RAM can make a major difference in gaming performance so would assume that this will be the case even more so with an RDNA2 APU.
Click to expand...
there are 8GB DDR5 desktop modules available for single channel (2x8GB - 16GB in dual channel). i don't see why mobile would be different.
 
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Shivansps

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There are 8GB DDR5 modules, but they are like the 2GB DDR4 modules, they are going to dissapear in a year or so. At any rate, ill say that 16GB is not enoght for RMB, at least not for the 12CU model, the IGP is going to need at least 4-6GB.
 
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ahimsa42

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DrMrLordX said:
16GB isn't really enough for anything these days.
Click to expand...

i don't know-i currently have 8GB and will likely go with 16GB when i upgrade to rembrandt in 2022. it seems to be the sweet spot as far as price/performance-especially since 1080p is just fine for my needs.
 
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LightningZ71

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16 seems to be the mainstream ideal right now. It's the best value per GB in the affordable range for 2 dimm systems.
What I do for most people is get them to 16GB, then, I purchased a whole bunch of "pulled" optane 32 GB modules and purchased them in people's 2nd m.2 slot. I then assign the windows swap file to 24GB of it and make the rest c:\ temp. Haven't had a complaint yet!
 
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Shivansps

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Its more about being enoght for an APU or not... 16GB even today with Cezanne its already pushing it, RMB IGP is going to need a minimum of 4GB VRAM, maybe even 6GB.
 
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eek2121

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AMD should send a simple Zen3D teaser to all the review sites right after the ADL-S reviews drop. Either that or give them hands on time for a preview.
 
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DrMrLordX

DrMrLordX

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eek2121 said:
AMD should send a simple Zen3D teaser to all the review sites right after the ADL-S reviews drop. Either that or give them hands on time for a preview.
Click to expand...

If they were Sony, they would do just that. They aren't Sony.

In this case, emulating Sony would be the smart thing to do, but . . .
 
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ahimsa42

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Shivansps said:
Its more about being enoght for an APU or not... 16GB even today with Cezanne its already pushing it, RMB IGP is going to need a minimum of 4GB VRAM, maybe even 6GB.
Click to expand...
that's where the reviews come in-to help decide if 16 is fine or if it is worth paying more for 32. the same with deciding between a rembrandt U or H-if it's $100+ more for 5%-10% increase in performance it's not worth it imo, at least not for me.
 
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ahimsa42

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wccftech.com

Minisforum's Next Mini PC To Pack Up To AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12 Core Desktop CPUs & Dedicated Graphics Cards

Minisforum has announced its most powerful Mini PC yet which will pack up to desktop-grade 12 Core AMD Ryzen 5000 CPUs & discrete GPUs.
wccftech.com wccftech.com

it would seem SFF's like this would be well suited for rembrandt and would also eliminate the need for a dgc for many people.

i would assume rembrandt will first be available only in laptops but i wonder how long it will be after release until they will make it to mini's? i am somewhat torn between getting a laptop or a mini PC but i guess it will come down to price & availability. from what i have seen mini's are priced around the same as a comparable laptop but with a laptop you also get a keyboard & screen along with the portability.
 
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Spicy

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Yes, I'm waiting for an Asus PN52.
PN51 was released in April 2021 (some months after CES) and available soon later. But it was Lucienne, with probably the same motherboard than PN50.
In contrast, Gigabyte and Asrock announced their Brix and Mars SFF in June, but still unavailable right now :confused_old:
 
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ahimsa42

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i'm surprised that there is not much more excitement about rembrandt's potential. i know many gamers are only into FPS regardless of the efficiency but i'll take a low power, cool & quiet APU over a hot, power hungry DGC any day.
 
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jpiniero

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ahimsa42 said:
i'm surprised that there is not much more excitement about rembrandt's potential. i know many gamers are only into FPS regardless of the efficiency but i'll take a low power, cool & quiet APU over a hot, power hungry DGC any day.
Click to expand...

Because you'll be even more bandwidth limited unless you pony up for really expensive DDR5.
 
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Joe NYC

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ahimsa42 said:
i'm surprised that there is not much more excitement about rembrandt's potential. i know many gamers are only into FPS regardless of the efficiency but i'll take a low power, cool & quiet APU over a hot, power hungry DGC any day.
Click to expand...

I think Rembrandt will be a pleasant surprise, just based on the fact that it is a 6nm design and AMD already over-delivered on their first 6nm design - MI250 datacenter GPU.

Also, there are rumors that Navi33 will be be doing extremely well on 6nm...
 
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