Question AMD Rembrandt/Zen 3+ APU Speculation and Discussion

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izaic3

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Nov 19, 2019
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Alright, so we've had some leaks so far. I don't know if any of it's been confirmed yet, as it's pretty early, but here is what I've surmised so far (massive grain of salt of course):

If if turns out to have RDNA 2 and 12 CU, I could see iGPU performance potentially almost doubling over Cezanne.

If I've made any mistakes or gotten anything wrong, please let me know. I'd also love to hear more knowledgeable people weigh in on their expectations.
 
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LightningZ71

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Mar 10, 2017
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No matter what, the next family of APUs will require a new BGA "socket" to support DDR5 and additional I/O. I think that changes there are assumed and expected by everyone involved. If changes are afoot, then provisioning for a high end chip seems to be part of the deal. Low end products can still continue to use the existing infrastructure going forward for several years, as there are several products that are still planned for it in that space, including the "refresh" of Cezanne and another low power/performance product. It seems logical that AMD has enough momentum in the market (Laptops and convertibles) to make this attractive for manufacturers.
 
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S

Spicy

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Oct 5, 2021
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NostaSeronx said:
Athlon 3015e and 3015Ce is Pollock hence the FT5 socket and single memory channel support.


View attachment 53871

14A-ND0080NR => 3015Ce-2020
14a-nd0090nr => 3015Ce-2021
82J9000EUS => 3015Ce
82GJ000DUS => 3015e
82GK001PUS => 3015e
etc.

Not cancelled, just not very sought after.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Yes, you're right. Mono vs Dual and FT5 vs FP5 make more sense for Pollock vs Dali, than 4.5W vs 6W (a TDP variant cannot be an other family chip).

So, with the exception of Warhol (canceled), Chagall (perpetually delayed) and Van Gogh/Dragon Crest/Aerith (still mysterious new lineup), all the leaked chipnames were true. Very good informers! :)
 
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eek2121

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uzzi38 said:
Raphael-H is designed to be used in laptops with dGPUs. You won't find it in even a single standalone design. Also, the iGPU barely deserves to be called an iGPU. For the market it's focused on, the only thing that matters from the APU itself is CPU performance, and Raphael will bring just that.

Most thin and light designs that your average laptop buyer is interested in covers a thermal range of 12-28W, depending on the device. There are a couple of higher end devices that push these -U tier chips to ~35W, but those are the exception, not the norm. You can pretty easily attribute well over half of all laptop sales to this market with absolute ease, I'd reckon it's actually more like a 70:30 split even. Be it the 2+8 die or the 6+8 die it's competing against, I'm confident that the only weakness of Rembrandt for these markets is going to be the single core performance.

I'm not elaborating any further on that statement for now though. Just wait the last month for CES, maybe earlier if the full slide deck gets leaked.
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Raphael-H will likely not be announced at CES.

Regardless of that, I find your claim of most people buying 15-28W chips to be misleading. All Intel Macbook Pros were 45+W, for example. Most gaming laptops are 35-54W designs as well. Anyone that does development or video production workloads is not going to use such a machine unless they want to have a bad time. I personally have never been issued a 15-28W laptop in all the years I have worked. I have also never purchased them for home use.
 
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izaic3

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eek2121 said:
Raphael-H will likely not be announced at CES.

Regardless of that, I find your claim of most people buying 15-28W chips to be misleading. All Intel Macbook Pros were 45+W, for example. Most gaming laptops are 35-54W designs as well. Anyone that does development or video production workloads is not going to use such a machine unless they want to have a bad time. I personally have never been issued a 15-28W laptop in all the years I have worked. I have also never purchased them for home use.
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Yeah, but you gotta think corporate. Thinkpad T series, L series, E series, Dell Latitude, HP Elite, etc. And all the laptops for students and teachers. And pretty much all Chromebooks. And pretty much any Windows laptop < $700. That is a rather massive market.
 
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ahimsa42

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jpiniero

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eek2121 said:
Regardless of that, I find your claim of most people buying 15-28W chips to be misleading. All Intel Macbook Pros were 45+W, for example. Most gaming laptops are 35-54W designs as well. Anyone that does development or video production workloads is not going to use such a machine unless they want to have a bad time. I personally have never been issued a 15-28W laptop in all the years I have worked. I have also never purchased them for home use.
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I have to agree that <28 W is the majority of the market. But there's still plenty of 35+ W laptops being sold, and I'd figure that once Raphael is available that OEMs will use that over Rembrandt/Phoenix H.
 
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Spicy

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Rembrandt-H will be alone to face ADL-P. Raphael-H will probably launched at CES 2023, with Phoenix-U (and -H?) (and Rembrandt-U refresh???), to face Raptor Lake-P.
 
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Joe NYC

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ahimsa42 said:
nothing new here but from their own chart i don't see how a TS of 2700 is close to a TS of 3200. perhaps because the 2700 is from an engineering sample & the retail version can be expected to be significantly improved?

wccftech.com

AMD Rembrandt Ryzen 6000 APUs With RDNA 2 GPUs Could Offer GeForce GTX 1650 Performance Out of The Box

AMD will be introducing its next-gen Rembrandt Ryzen 6000 APUs next month and they will feature some insane integrated graphics performance.
wccftech.com wccftech.com
Click to expand...

Depends a lot on the memory.
 
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uzzi38

uzzi38

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ahimsa42 said:
interesting-so RMB 's competitor is going to be a discreate gpu?

wccftech.com

NVIDIA GeForce MX550 Laptop GPU Might Be Green Team's Answer To AMD's Rembrandt RDNA 2 APUs, 2 GB GDDR6 Memory & 15% Faster Than MX450

NVIDIA could be launching its next entry-level discrete GPU for the laptop market, the GeForce MX550, powered by the Ampere architecture.
wccftech.com wccftech.com
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Well there's no iGPUs in 2022 that will keep up with it. It very much competes with the MX style solutions from all three vendors, not sure of the config for Intel's, but you have got 32b Navi24 (lol) and the MX550 (using the rumoured name) that technically compete with it yes.
 
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moinmoin

moinmoin

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ahimsa42 said:
interesting-so RMB 's competitor is going to be a discreate gpu?
Click to expand...
That's very underwhelming to be honest. I'd hate to see many laptops with it that could have been cheaper and get longer battery life without it. Imo it just doesn't make sense to include a dGPU for this little gain. (That said it likely will be a decent upgrade to the DTR level chips like Raphael-H and ADL-S.)
 
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uzzi38

uzzi38

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jpiniero said:
Even if the mx550 is slower than Rembrandt it'd still be helluva lot faster than Alder Lake.
Click to expand...

Seems faster based off of the early numbers. Rembrandt performed similarly to an MX450 in TS, so assuming the scaling here carries over you'd be looking at the MX550(?) being 15% faster.

Not that I think it's worth pairing it with Rembrandt, too much extra cost for a small uptick in performance if this is accurate, and there would be a small but noticable battery life hit too.
 
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ahimsa42

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i don't see the point of paring RMB with a dgup either & i will certainly be buying a laptop without one myself. personally, if i wanted a dgpu i would buy a non apu cpu with it.
 
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mikk

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uzzi38

uzzi38

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mikk said:
2 GB of GDDR6 is crazy if you ask me, 4GB is the absolute minimum for a dGPU in 2022 imho.
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I mean for this power budget tier I don't think we'll see any 4GB cards. AMD and Nvidia are both shipping 2GB, Intel probably 3GB I would guess?

Just another one of the reasons why I think this is the final stand for MX though. I think we won't see another generation of MX products ever again after this.
 
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T

Thibsie

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Apr 25, 2017
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uzzi38 said:
I mean for this power budget tier I don't think we'll see any 4GB cards. AMD and Nvidia are both shipping 2GB, Intel probably 3GB I would guess?

Just another one of the reasons why I think this is the final stand for MX though. I think we won't see another generation of MX products ever again after this.
Click to expand...

Never say (n)ever...
 
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M

mikk

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uzzi38 said:
I mean for this power budget tier I don't think we'll see any 4GB cards. AMD and Nvidia are both shipping 2GB, Intel probably 3GB I would guess?

Just another one of the reasons why I think this is the final stand for MX though. I think we won't see another generation of MX products ever again after this.
Click to expand...


DG1 has 4GB of memory, means there is a good chance DG2-128 mobile will get 4GB as well, desktop DG2-128 seems to get 6GB. 2GB VRAM is a joke nowadays.
 
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jpiniero

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uzzi38 said:
I mean for this power budget tier I don't think we'll see any 4GB cards.
Click to expand...

4 GB shouldn't be an issue. It's 2 chips regardless. I bet the OEM has the option of 2 or 4 GB but yeah they probably will use 2 GB mostly. Guess we will see if Rembrandt U is fast enough for the mx550 to not make sense. They'll definitely use it with Alder Lake.
 
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