Question AMD Rembrandt/Zen 3+ APU Speculation and Discussion

[izaic3]

Alright, so we've had some leaks so far. I don't know if any of it's been confirmed yet, as it's pretty early, but here is what I've surmised so far (massive grain of salt of course):

• Zen 3 "enhanced"
• DDR5 and LPDDR5 support
• PCIE4
• 6nm
• CVML
• Navi 2/RDNA/RDNA 2
• 12 CU
• Socket FP7/AM5
• Possible USB4
• 2021(unlikely) -2022 (more likely) release date

If if turns out to have RDNA 2 and 12 CU, I could see iGPU performance potentially almost doubling over Cezanne.

If I've made any mistakes or gotten anything wrong, please let me know. I'd also love to hear more knowledgeable people weigh in on their expectations.

 

[ahimsa42]

am looking forward to actual in game benchmarks and it will also be interesting to see the difference between the 15W & the 45W chips as far as igpu performance.

 

[eek2121]

The last rumour was a q1 launch for rembrandt laptop and q2 for rembrandt desktop.
People are speculating that it's an oem only launch for am5, ryzen 6000g and a low end chipset, possibly without a southbridge. Then q3 or q4 being the main retail consumer launch with zen4 cpus.

AMD has recently been very quiet on these kind of oem launches so I'd be suprised if we don't get a proper leak or information until well after the q2 launch. Even bristol ridge on am4 from years back was scant more than whispers.

I mean, AMD directly stated AM5 launches with Zen 4, so that is a pretty clear indication that we aren’t getting any type of desktop Rembrandt before Zen 4.

 

[Joe NYC]

With the Intel/ADL pressure, it make sense that AMD would try to bring forward the launch of its Zen 4.

It did not seem to expedite AMD's desktop plans with Zen 3D ahead of server, so why expect it with Zen 4?

 

[tamz_msc]

Why are you changing the resolution? Nobody tests with anything but the default, which I'm pretty sure is 1440p

Oh in that case, yeah Rembrandt is faster. Over twice as fast as Iris Xe 96 EU in Tiger Lake in fact.

But the difference in TimeSpy doesn't correlate with the gap in actual games; in actual games Intel iGPUs underperform by a big margin an equivalent scoring discrete GPU.

In my case, MX450 is ~+50% ahead of Iris Xe 96 EU in TS, but in an actual game like SOTTR, it is over 2x faster.

Rembrandt will easily be the best iGPU until Meteor Lake arrives.

 

[ahimsa42]

[QUOTE="Rembrandt will easily be the best iGPU until Meteor Lake arrives. [/QUOTE]

by then AMD may have released phoenix with zen4 though

 

[izaic3]

Do you think a a 15W part might have 12CU or will that only be for an H or HS part?

 

[tomatosummit]

Do you think a a 15W part might have 12CU or will that only be for an H or HS part?

I can see 12 in the r9 halo parts even at 15w.
but I think there will be a majority 8 or 10cu cpus in the more available r7 range.

My real problem (along with shivasnaps) is that there will not be a cheap 4 core with full gpus capabilities for dirt cheap desktop apus.

 

[Spicy]

Do you think a a 15W part might have 12CU or will that only be for an H or HS part?

With 7nm, they have 8CU, so, why not 12Cu with 6nm and a new architecture? They just have to manage their frequencies, to adapt them to the targeted TDP.

 

[Spicy]

My real problem (along with shivasnaps) is that there will not be a cheap 4 core with full gpus capabilities for dirt cheap desktop apus.

Probably a new Athlon linup to come. But a tiny iGPU.

AMD Monet (12nm Zen3 APU) and Bergamo (EPYC 128-core CPU) make an appearance in latest rumors - VideoCardz.com

AMD Monet: Zen3 on 12nm node In the most recent video from RedGamingTech, a new codename is mentioned supposedly related to the upcoming low-power APU from AMD. AMD is allegedly planning to manufacture low-power Zen3 APU codenamed “Monet” using Global Foundries 12LP+ node. Monet is supposedly...

videocardz.com

 

[Thibsie]

.
My real problem (along with shivasnaps) is that there will not be a cheap 4 core with full gpus capabilities for dirt cheap desktop apus.

Why would they ?

 

[uzzi38]

I can see 12 in the r9 halo parts even at 15w.
but I think there will be a majority 8 or 10cu cpus in the more available r7 range.

My real problem (along with shivasnaps) is that there will not be a cheap 4 core with full gpus capabilities for dirt cheap desktop apus.

Dirt cheap APUs that require DDR5 is a bit of a contradictory statement you got there buddy.

 

[Joe NYC]

Dirt cheap APUs that require DDR5 is a bit of a contradictory statement you got there buddy.

Also, there will likely be only 1 die for Rembrandt.

 

[mikk]

Oh in that case, yeah Rembrandt is faster. Over twice as fast as Iris Xe 96 EU in Tiger Lake in fact.

Tigerlake-U devices can reach scores of 1800-2000 points in timespy, it's not even close to twice as fast.

 

[Spicy]

Also, there will likely be only 1 die for Rembrandt.

They will disable some cores, for low end R3. But they also disable some CUs.
R3 5300G is 4c/8t + 6CU

 

[andermans]

Dirt cheap APUs that require DDR5 is a bit of a contradictory statement you got there buddy.

It should also support LPDDr5 which is a bit further along on the product lifecycle (IIRC used by phones since spring).

 

[uzzi38]

It should also support LPDDr5 which is a bit further along on the product lifecycle (IIRC used by phones since spring).

Since Snapdragon 865 actually. LPDDR5 has been around for a while now.

But I was replying to a comment about desktop chips, where LPDDR is a no go, soooo

 

[rainy]

Tigerlake-U devices can reach scores of 1800-2000 points in timespy, it's not even close to twice as fast.

Clearly, you haven't read a later part:

But the difference in TimeSpy doesn't correlate with the gap in actual games; in actual games Intel iGPUs underperform by a big margin an equivalent scoring discrete GPU.

In my case, MX450 is ~+50% ahead of Iris Xe 96 EU in TS, but in an actual game like SOTTR, it is over 2x faster.

 

[Shivansps]

Dirt cheap APUs that require DDR5 is a bit of a contradictory statement you got there buddy.

They will have to replace DDR4 Athlons for the DDR5 version eventually, but im guessing Q3/Q4 2023 as the earliest.

I dont really know what "dirt cheap" is anymore. The 3200G and 3400G used to have a large entry level market at $100 and $140. But due to the dGPU prices, the 5600G and 5700G replaced them at more than x2 the original prices. Athlons arent avalible because they all go to miners. So i dont really know anymore.

They probably want to keep Cezanne on AM4 as the entry level platform at least until the end of 2023 and the 5300G will become the "cheap apu" for some time. It would be interesting to see if they plan to release the RDNA2/LPDDR4 Athlon to AM4 (if it even has a DDR4 controller).

 

[gdansk]

Oh in that case, yeah Rembrandt is faster. Over twice as fast as Iris Xe 96 EU in Tiger Lake in fact.

But the difference in TimeSpy doesn't correlate with the gap in actual games; in actual games Intel iGPUs underperform by a big margin an equivalent scoring discrete GPU.

Xe under performs (relative to TimeSpy) in many games relative to even Vega.

 

[NostaSeronx]

I dont really know what "dirt cheap" is anymore.

AMD's Dirt Cheap started with Bhavani on AM1 and continued to Raven2/Dali on AM4.

$40 to $60 for Sempron 3850 to Athlon 5350 w/ Bhavani die -> $50 for Athlon 3000G w/ Raven2 die

So, basically we are looking at a socketed unharvested Mendoicino that is at $80 or lower to be considered dirt cheap, with harvested dual-core parts being $50 or lower.

 

[mikk]

Clearly, you haven't read a later part:

MX450 is not Rembrandt it's useless (iGPU vs dGPU). His posting seems completely off. First he says the supposed overall score of 2700 is more than twice as fast as his Tigerlake-U, so his Tigerlake-U scores at 1350 which is a very low number. He is using a G4 variant with 80 EUs if I remember and sure they are a lot lower. He is using a G4 variant with only 80 EUs and DDR4-2133, so the slow memory will have a huge impact in real world gaming. Furthermore MX450 can reach timespy GPU scores of 2000 points which is quite a bit faster than the fastest G7 versions.

I'm just saying that the fastest Tigerlake-U devices can reach scores of 1800-2000, you can check it out on notebookcheck. Sure if you like to use crippled versions as a reference be fine with it, but be aware there will be crippled Rembrandt devices as well with slow memory and slower SKUs.

 

[DisEnchantment]

Raphael might come to laptops before Phoenix. I can think of many OEMs wanting to jump ahead, if this leak is to be believed. Likely ADL-P will face some Zen 4 laptops in 2022 itself.

 

[mikk]

This is unlikely considering that the desktop version is supposed to come in late Q4, mobile ramp ups are much longer. Of course Raphael mobile could still come before Phoenix, I mean it's not a given that Phoenix is launching at CES 2023.

 

[tamz_msc]

MX450 is not Rembrandt it's useless (iGPU vs dGPU). His posting seems completely off. First he says the supposed overall score of 2700 is more than twice as fast as his Tigerlake-U, so his Tigerlake-U scores at 1350 which is a very low number. He is using a G4 variant with 80 EUs if I remember and sure they are a lot lower. He is using a G4 variant with only 80 EUs and DDR4-2133, so the slow memory will have a huge impact in real world gaming. Furthermore MX450 can reach timespy GPU scores of 2000 points which is quite a bit faster than the fastest G7 versions.

I'm just saying that the fastest Tigerlake-U devices can reach scores of 1800-2000, you can check it out on notebookcheck. Sure if you like to use crippled versions as a reference be fine with it, but be aware there will be crippled Rembrandt devices as well with slow memory and slower SKUs.

Nothing is "off" about my post.

I use an i7-11370H but configured for 30 W PL1 and 51 W PL2 with DDR4-3200. So, close to what your typical laptops with -U series CPUs are configured with. I typically score 1400-1450 points in Time Spy Graphics. Notebookcheck corroborates my experience - with 1400-1600 score being most common, the higher scores coming from laptops configured with LPDDR4x. The highest score of 1819 comes from an MSI Prestige EVO, which is configured like a -H series part with 36 W PL1 and 64 W PL2, against Intel spec for PL1 of 28 W.

So if 2700 is your typical Rembrandt score, then it'll be almost 2x faster than your typical Iris Xe G7 96 EU in Time Spy, and much faster than that in actual games.

 

[itsmydamnation]

This is unlikely considering that the desktop version is supposed to come in late Q4, mobile ramp ups are much longer. Of course Raphael mobile could still come before Phoenix, I mean it's not a given that Phoenix is launching at CES 2023.

according to whom ?