AMD Radeon RX Vega 64 and 56 Reviews [*UPDATED* Aug 28]

[raghu78]

I love how some people are still playing the wait for xxx with AMD here.

Two things i see posted alot not just on this forum but in general regarding this vega launch.

1. Wait for drivers! They need to fix primitive shaders, or this or that instruction is not enabled and will add xx% performance overnight, etc.

2. The prices are inflated due to miners! and the miner boom is about to crash so prices will stabilize soon.

The issue with the "wait for AMD" line is that this time they really do not have the time to wait. They have now managed to get so far behind Nvidia they are so close to a full generation behind. They have exactly till Volta is on shelves to sell any Vega cards, because after that they will need to drop prices below their own costs to sell any cards at all, to gamers anyways who knows what mining will do.

Think about this for a second, Nvidia has consistently released new series with about a 1 model level up performance gain, as in new generation xx60 model will be as fast or faster than last gens xx70 model, and new gen xx70 will be as fast as last gens xx80, etc. If this holds true for Volta, and they release a 2060 thats as fast or faster than a 1070, and keep the xx60 model level pricing this is going to beat a vega 56 for under $300. And the 2070 is going to beat a Vega 64 for under $400. Likely with less power usage unless Nvidia pulls another fermi. This is what AMD fans seem to not realize, Nvidia is ready with their next gen they are not standing still, its going to come out in the next 6-8 months. And its going to crush any chance AMD has to make money off vega. The time for Vega to shine is now, they need to get prices under control now, they need to get the driver situation(if there even is a major issue with drivers) figured out now. And they need to release a fix for the MSAA low performance situation now. They very simply do not have the time to wait.

I was holding out for Vega, i had hope AMD would not release a complete flop, Vega just sounded too good on paper, and the rx480/580 did great vs Nvidia midrange so had hope AMD could match that on the high end. And i really didnt want to invest into the Gsync monitor tax. I even wrote off alot of the vega leaks as BS because i did not want to believe they could not decisively beat a 1080 over a year later(i was expecting right in the middle of 1080/1080Ti performance, because you know AMD was marketing this as a high end gaming GPU and using words like poor volta, and the fact that the chip is huge and should have more muscle than it does). But its clear to me now that Vega is a flop for gamers looking for a high end GPU, and that AMD is not going to be able to ramp Navi up fast enough to get it out Q1 next year to compete with Volta, so Volta will go unanswered for likely as long as Pascal did, and Navi will be competing against what follows Volta.

Poor volta my ass Pascal handily destroys vega with top 2 models being untouched(1080Ti/titan) and the 1080 as well really when you take power and MSAA into consideration. Volta has nothing to worry about.

True. AMD has a small window of 6 months before Volta comes and makes AMD's entire product stack obsolete. I am expecting a hammering to AMD GPU market share in 2018. We can expect a 40-50% perf increase at ever product tier.

GTX 2060 - faster than GTX 1070 - USD 250 - USD 300
GTX 2070 - slightly below GTX 1080 Ti - USD 400 - USD 450
GTX 2080 - 10-20% faster than GTX 1080 Ti - USD 500 - USD 550
GTX 2080Ti - 35% faster than GTX 2080. - USD 700 - USD 800

 

[ElFenix]

Well, plenty of reasons, like the scores of DX11 titles where the 1070 trounces the 56. Chief among them are GTA5, Battleground, Ghost Recon Wildlands, Rainbow Siege..etc (even Crysis 3). These are games that people actually play right now.

There are also NVIDIA exclusive features that dwarfs any thing AMD offers right now: Ansel, PhysX, VXAO, HFTS, and the armada of GameWorks effects that only works on NVIDIA hardware. There is also the better performance in VR games, and the better image quality in Multi-Screen setups through the new reprojection technique NVIDIA developed.

when someone says "chevy colorado is darn near the same price as a chevy silverado, no reason to buy a colorado," do you start talking about the features chevy has that ford doesn't?

 

[thilanliyan]

I think the pricing sucks for sure, but I think that's because of limited supply and a desire to shut out miners with those bundles.
I ordered a standard Vega64 last Tuesday from NCIX and was told stock was supposed to come in Friday, then this Monday, and I have still have not heard anything yet. If I still don't have it in my hands this week I'll probably cancel my order.

 

[krumme]

We can expect a 40-50% perf increase at ever product tier.

GTX 2060 - faster than GTX 1070 - USD 250 - USD 300
GTX 2070 - slightly below GTX 1080 Ti - USD 400 - USD 450
GTX 2080 - 10-20% faster than GTX 1080 Ti - USD 500 - USD 550
GTX 2080Ti - 35% faster than GTX 2080. - USD 700 - USD 800

Ok lets expect that from volta.

And if it not happens its okey for the same 10 people to do thread pissing for 2 f.....g month in a row repeating the same beaten to death points over and over?

 

[tential]

True. AMD has a small window of 6 months before Volta comes and makes AMD's entire product stack obsolete. I am expecting a hammering to AMD GPU market share in 2018. We can expect a 40-50% perf increase at ever product tier.

GTX 2060 - faster than GTX 1070 - USD 250 - USD 300
GTX 2070 - slightly below GTX 1080 Ti - USD 400 - USD 450
GTX 2080 - 10-20% faster than GTX 1080 Ti - USD 500 - USD 550
GTX 2080Ti - 35% faster than GTX 2080. - USD 700 - USD 800

In under 1 year the Vega 64 chip will go from competing with the middle chip of Nvidia to the chip destined to service the gtx 2060....

I just don't see the appeal or how anyone thinks that chip is a good choice for high end gaming for triple a titles moving forward.

Look at where the gtx 980 and fury x is and that's where Vega 64 will perform relative to Volta in games. Either Volta will deliver the most amazing experience for gaming, or Vega will deliver medium graphics level performance for that game.

If I was amd I'd be dreading the gtx titan VP (CEO edition coming soon). Card. That will distort benchmark graphs like crazy.

 

[Rifter]

Ok lets expect that from volta.

And if it not happens its okey for the same 10 people to do thread pissing for 2 f.....g month in a row repeating the same beaten to death points over and over?

I think hes being a bit optimistic, especially with the 2080 perf predictions but so far there are no signs showing that Nvidia will not deliver like they have the last few generations. They may raise prices to reflect the lack of competition from AMD because vega flopped but i do expect the 2060 to beat vega 56 and the 2070 to beat vega 64, its just a matter of what Nvidia will charge us for them. I expect both the 2060 and 2070 to see a $25-50 price hike, perhaps more on the 2080 and better cards.

Either way Volta is going to make AMD's whole product stack irreverent to high end gamers if it isnt already.

 

[IntelUser2000]

True. AMD has a small window of 6 months before Volta comes and makes AMD's entire product stack obsolete. I am expecting a hammering to AMD GPU market share in 2018. We can expect a 40-50% perf increase at ever product tier.

GTX 2060 - faster than GTX 1070 - USD 250 - USD 300
GTX 2070 - slightly below GTX 1080 Ti - USD 400 - USD 450
GTX 2080 - 10-20% faster than GTX 1080 Ti - USD 500 - USD 550
GTX 2080Ti - 35% faster than GTX 2080. - USD 700 - USD 800

On the Nvidia thread there's a rumor from a Chinese leaker that says 16-17k on 3DMark Firestrike Extreme GPU.

That's a 20-25% gain. The density gain from 12FFN is also minimal. Probably 5-10%.

 

[Elixer]

Linus, Jayz, and a couple of other reviewers on the pricing scam.
https://youtu.be/evaBde4MKDQ

Basically they are all @@@@ off, they feel like they were used by AMD.

That there is about the worst video I have ever seen, 4 grown people crying about having to work on the weekend? Cry me a river.

As for the pricing part, I already think AMD should fire their PR guys, they have royally screwed up about every aspect of the Vega launch that I can think of.

but, this has been going on for pretty much all launches, gfx cards or consoles, whenever there isn't enough supply.
Hardware Unboxed said it nicely.

 

[PeterScott]

but, this has been going on for pretty much all launches, gfx cards or consoles, whenever there isn't enough supply.
Hardware Unboxed said it nicely.

No, you and Hardward Unboxed dude don't get it at all.

This is not the normal, price is high because of short supply.

This is about the game AMD played, to gave rebates to for a tiny window to sell a tiny number of MSRP cards.

After the favorable Price/Peformance was established in reviews, the rebates were revoked.

It's a form of bait and switch.

 

[Elixer]

No, you and Hardward Unboxed dude don't get it at all.

This is not the normal, price is high because of short supply.

This is about the game AMD played, to gave rebates to for a tiny window to sell a tiny number of MSRP cards.

After the favorable Price/Peformance was established in reviews, the rebates were revoked.

It's a form of bait and switch.

Only 1 retailer said that, Gibbo, and he hasn't been very truthful at all either on the Vega launch. He was the one that started the whole Vega can do 70-100Mh/s and they are scrambling to find ways to "keep them from the miners". It was all BS.

 

[PeterScott]

Only 1 retailer said that, Gibbo, and he hasn't been very truthful at all either on the Vega launch. He was the one that started the whole Vega can do 70-100Mh/s and they are scrambling to find ways to "keep them from the miners". It was all BS.

Generally speaking those agreements are locked up similar to NDA. Notice Linus was talking about being far outside he previous job to talk about such things, indicating he was aware of them as a practice.

 

[Elixer]

Generally speaking those agreements are locked up similar to NDA. Notice Linus was talking about being far outside he previous job to talk about such things, indicating he was aware of them as a practice.

Exactly, so, how can you trust 1 source that isn't trustworthy?
Linus has no idea of the deals in place for Vega, that is speculation as well.

Give it the same amount of time that the other cards fell back to MSRP, and we will see if AMD did actually pull a fast one.

 

[jpiniero]

It probably won't as long as mining remains popular.

 

[IntelUser2000]

It probably won't as long as mining remains popular.

In Canada, its starting to be at a point where even Polaris cards are available for buy. The prices are a bit inflated, but at least you can buy them. There was a point where to have general availability Polaris cards had to be priced 30%+ higher. Now, maybe 10%. With the difficulty levels, you'd be borderline crazy to buy a brand new mining setup.

I've heard Vega does good on Monero. But that's the best coin for Vega, and its profitability is at $170/mo. It sucks for the price and power usage for every other coin. So what happens when Monero is not profitable?

With Polaris and Pascal you have alternatives at least. With Nvidia you have an advantage of significantly better drivers as well. Right now, mining is all Polaris though.

 

[PeterScott]

Exactly, so, how can you trust 1 source that isn't trustworthy?
Linus has no idea of the deals in place for Vega, that is speculation as well.

Give it the same amount of time that the other cards fell back to MSRP, and we will see if AMD did actually pull a fast one.

Why untrustworthy? He said he heard the 70-100 MH/s from a guy working at an AIB. This is exactly what he said about the source:

"Guy internally from one of the AIB's, maybe he is smoking the BS pipe."

How does that make him untrustworthy. He is reporting something he heard, that he isn't too sure about, and it is clear he doesn't trust it.

OTOH, he IS a retailer, and that information is first hand, and it fits with the bundles AMD is doing with "Free Games" that AMD is using to drive up pricing.

 

[PeterScott]

In Canada, its starting to be at a point where even Polaris cards are available for buy. The prices are a bit inflated, but at least you can buy them. There was a point where to have general availability Polaris cards had to be priced 30%+ higher. Now, maybe 10%. With the difficulty levels, you'd be borderline crazy to buy a brand new mining setup.

A bit inflated? I see the RX580 still going for $500 CDN. That is silly overpriced except for miners I guess.

I'll buy a console before I pay that kind of pricing for a video card.

 

[Zstream]

No, you and Hardward Unboxed dude don't get it at all.
This is not the normal, price is high because of short supply.
This is about the game AMD played, to gave rebates to for a tiny window to sell a tiny number of MSRP cards.
After the favorable Price/Peformance was established in reviews, the rebates were revoked.
It's a form of bait and switch.

I'm not sure if this is a Trolla alt, but dear lord. You have ONE person, who is known to fabricate stuff stating this. Please just stop.

 

[Muhammed]

Gibbo is not the only source for for the rebate info, Steve from GamersNexus confirmed it, as well as Linus, and Tweaktown, and some guys at Beyond3D as well. Just about everybody knows about this, excpet die hard AMD fans who can't believe it.

 

[Zstream]

Gibbo is not the only source for for the rebate info, Steve from GamersNexus confirmed it, as well as Linus, and Tweaktown, and some guys at Beyond3D as well. Just about everybody knows about this, excpet die hard AMD fans who can't believe it.

Yes, unlike die hard Nvidia fans?

 

[bystander36]

No, it's not perfect. The only downsides I have ever experienced are performance hits (fixed with more GPU performance) and GUI shrinkage (game dependent).

There's certainly room for subjective preference, so don't take this as an attack, but I think downsampling is objectively better across the board. Whatever you want to call it (downsampling/SSAA/FSAA before it was DSR/VSR), the results don't adversely affect textures, meshes, transparencies, etc. Likewise, games that have bad AA options or no AA options always work with downsampling. Most other AA methods take a low resolution image (or parts of it) and just make it blurrier or create pixels that otherwise should not be in the scene (artifacts). Same concept with upscaling DVDs and other videos. Trying to manifest/interpolate detail where it doesn't exist always looks bad/incorrect. To get the best image with limited artifacts, it's always best to start with the highest possible detail/resolution and then sample it down to your native resolution. This concept is how everything else in life works - from vision to photography to audio recordings.

Downsampling is different than MSAA and is definitely game dependent on what is best. Modern games are more prone to leave a lot of unfix aliasing with MSAA, but it really depends on the game. MSAA x4 will generally do a much better job around the outsides of objects, but downsampling/SSAA/VSR/DSR work on everything, but do not do as good a job around objects. Then you have to look at performance hit. Often those forms of SSAA have a much bigger performance hit, so you have to keep your options open.

And don't kid yourself, all those SSAA types of AA cause blur, they just might not blur as bad as most post processing forms.

 

[ElFenix]

the story is, AMD used a carrot to get retailers to price the initial batch at $499, and that carrot is going away, so now the price is free to market fluctuate (AMD can't price fix, that's illegal), so the price is going to settle in at whatever the thing is worth to miners. like every other video card.

 

[EXCellR8]

seriously how great was last night's episode?

anyway there are some similarities between Vega and previous cards' releases but AMD did kind of sloppily release these things. it's a little painful to watch a company succeed so well with one thing and then sort of fall on their face with another.

 

[PeterScott]

seriously how great was last night's episode?

anyway there are some similarities between Vega and previous cards' releases but AMD did kind of sloppily release these things. it's a little painful to watch a company succeed so well with one thing and then sort of fall on their face with another.

It's easy to market a good product like Ryzen. It's much harder to market a mediocre one, like Vega.

Extra bonus from Ryzen being relatively inexpensive to produce, and Vega being much more expensive to produce.

 

[IntelUser2000]

A bit inflated? I see the RX580 still going for $500 CDN. That is silly overpriced except for miners I guess.

I'll buy a console before I pay that kind of pricing for a video card.

There are non idiot miners if that's what you are asking.

Newegg.ca has it for $374. You can get the RX 570 for $300. The thing is, just few weeks ago literally nothing were available for buy. So its a change.

At this point you won't profit even for $300. I think people thinking Vega is sold out due to miners are making another excuse.

 

[Elixer]

Gibbo is not the only source for for the rebate info, Steve from GamersNexus confirmed it, as well as Linus, and Tweaktown, and some guys at Beyond3D as well. Just about everybody knows about this, excpet die hard AMD fans who can't believe it.

They all have Gibbo as the main source.

Rather disappointing to see how many people rush to judgment, without actual facts that can be verified yet.

If Gibbo was on the up & up, he would produce the e-mails from AMD showing this scheme.
I mean, he already spilled the beans, so what more does he have to lose?
Now this shows up...

So, there wasn't a rebate after all... huh.
The retailers set their own price... which isn't shocking.

So again, wait this out and see what happens.