AMD Q3 results: even worse than revised expectations

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bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,928
186
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Well, what do you think is going to happen to AMD's GPUs if AMD folds? They'll keep on "on'n"?

The whole company cannot survive on GPU sales especially when they have a lower percentage of the market to begin with. So, if the CPU side fails, so does the GPU side. Unless AMD splits off another company.
Kubler-Ross was a reference to die hard AMD fans who do not act like they believe there isn't anything to fear. Just because CPU's aren't selling doesn't mean that AMD GPUs won't give healthy competition for eons to come.

That is true and the gpu business is in jeopardy because of that but is also not germane to the discussion at hand.
You jumped in saying that "We all know that AMD didn't do anything to be in the position it is in today." when a previous poster was talking about AMD gpu performance which was very good. And you posted that needless psychological assessment in the cpu thread.
 

Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
275
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Could someone post profits, margins and marketshare for AMD graphics? I know someone posted in another thread the steam survey. I just have not seen hard evidence that AMD graphics are doing great or at least better than NVIDIA and are keeping the rest of AMD afloat.

Several price cuts and gloomy financial news is the most recent info I have seen. I don't care if you like AMD or hate AMD. I'm really just curious as to what the actual data is.

Big companies like AMD, don't die in two days, they shrink...

AMD as a whole, is bigger than Nvidia, they will have to make several cuts, on people, R&D and ect...enought to became finantialy stable as Nvidia...

funny that, AMD might became a second ATI...while beeing the original o_O
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
Your point was you couldn't afford your $700 video card so you had to spend the last 9 months mining bitcoins and that is your rational as to how it payed for itself?

Hey I guess if it works for you, who am I to knock it. Personally I think the 680 user who was playing video games with their $500 card got more value from it, but whom am I to make such judgments to each their own.



Even if you game an absurd eight hours a day, that leaves you 16 to mine. You have posted time and time again about the value of the GTX470 compared to current cards, I would think that you would be a huge advocate in regards to the value of bitcoin mining.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
That is true and the gpu business is in jeopardy because of that but is also not germane to the discussion at hand.
You jumped in saying that "We all know that AMD didn't do anything to be in the position it is in today." when a previous poster was talking about AMD gpu performance which was very good. And you posted that needless psychological assessment in the cpu thread.

Ummmmmmmmm. Nobody "Jumped in" anywhere as my post was a direct quote and response to:

MrK6 saying:
" Originally Posted by MrK6 View Post
Pretty much. It's interesting to see NVIDIA's marketing machine play off their failures as AMD's fault, and even more so that some people actually buy into it (literally I suppose)."

My post: " "We all know that AMD didn't do anything to be in the position it is in today."

....was redonkulously sarcastic. And you need to ease up there.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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I think the title of this thread says it all. It is the topic. The discussion is about AMD and it not making money. They are not alone in their type of business and this is why other corporations that do similar things are relevant to the discussion. Naturally AMD will be compared to others in a similar business, its like comparing football teams. If you see a team doing poor you will naturally compare it to a team that is doing better. Its really the most natural thing to do.

Its in our nature to see things and compare them in a similar way. Its fundamentally part of how we improve ourselves as a species.

AMD is not just competing with nVidia. Look at the cards they offer. AMD is competing fine with nVidia. It's their CPU/APU business that Intel is stomping them in. That's why they had to write off $100 mil in CPU/APU inventory. They didn't have to write off old GPU's.
 
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NIGELG

Senior member
Nov 4, 2009
852
31
91
Ummmmmmmmm. Nobody "Jumped in" anywhere as my post was a direct quote and response to:

MrK6 saying:
" Originally Posted by MrK6 View Post
Pretty much. It's interesting to see NVIDIA's marketing machine play off their failures as AMD's fault, and even more so that some people actually buy into it (literally I suppose)."

My post: " "We all know that AMD didn't do anything to be in the position it is in today."

....was redonkulously sarcastic. And you need to ease up there.
You seem to forgot you are no longer a mod.I see you are still telling people how to post ...lol.

Anyhow I do agree that AMD is mostly responsible....bar the Intel BRIBES of OEM'S...for their financial position,their CPU'S can't compete but their GPU'S do compete.They should really shrink the size of the company and make GPU'S,low power CPU'S etc etc....the days of beating Intel in Desktop CPU'S are long gone so they should focus elsewhere.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
You seem to forgot you are no longer a mod.I see you are still telling people how to post ...lol.

Anyhow I do agree that AMD is mostly responsible....bar the Intel BRIBES of OEM'S...for their financial position,their CPU'S can't compete but their GPU'S do compete.They should really shrink the size of the company and make GPU'S,low power CPU'S etc etc....the days of beating Intel in Desktop CPU'S are long gone so they should focus elsewhere.

The Intel "bribes" have nothing to do with the performance of AMD CPU's. AMD chose to sink every dime it had, sell off it's fabs, sell of it's awesome snapdragon division for 65 million dollars, (so GD dumb for selling it not to mention they could have gotten 10 times that amount for it ), layoff thousands in order to destroy ATI (that's what they're ending up doing). Leaving NO money for R&D or hiring proper engineers and designers with high levels of talent even after winning a BILLION dollar suit from Intel, and infused with ridiculous amounts of Abu Dhabi money. AMD bet the farm on APU's. Bad decision after bad decision after bad decision. It makes all of our heads spin without a doubt.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
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Intel's illegal antics helped kill off AMD's momentum at the time. AMD had plenty of self-inflicted wounds as well, but Intel certainly did not help.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
Intel's illegal antics helped kill off AMD's momentum at the time. AMD had plenty of self-inflicted wounds as well, but Intel certainly did not help.

With market penetration certainly. But that still has nothing to do with the performance of AMD CPUs. AMD would be kicking arse right now if they had a hit with bulldozer and Llano was more formidable.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
With market penetration certainly. But that still has nothing to do with the performance of AMD CPUs. AMD would be kicking arse right now if they had a hit with bulldozer and Llano was more formidable.

More sales (you can term it market penetration or whatever) -> more profits to plow back into R&D -> possibly better outcome. I am not saying it would have been for sure a significantly greater outcome, but it probably wouldn't have been worse!
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
More sales (you can term it market penetration or whatever) -> more profits to plow back into R&D -> possibly better outcome. I am not saying it would have been for sure a significantly greater outcome, but it probably wouldn't have been worse!

If you note, AMD didnt spend on R&D or processnode when they had the cash and was in front. They was backlaid and arrogant and assumed everything would be a freeride from there. And then used it all to buy ATI for a huge overprice. AMD essentially doomed itself back in 2003/2004.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,928
186
106
Ummmmmmmmm. Nobody "Jumped in" anywhere as my post was a direct quote and response to:

MrK6 saying:
" Originally Posted by MrK6 View Post
Pretty much. It's interesting to see NVIDIA's marketing machine play off their failures as AMD's fault, and even more so that some people actually buy into it (literally I suppose)."

My post: " "We all know that AMD didn't do anything to be in the position it is in today."

....was redonkulously sarcastic. And you need to ease up there.

Mrk6 was replying to someone else about the GK104/7970. Then you jumped in with your odd remark about 'AMD not doing anything' and continuing on about GK104/680 - strange way to say that its only irony. Why jump in with inflammatory and sarcastic remark in a sensitive thread and continuing on in the sister thread in the cpu forum, especially with your baggage in your sig.

AMD's gpu side did well recently by taking market share from Nvidia for good reason, their cards perform well.
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
1
0
In an ironic twist: The APU was the future for AMD and seemed to bet the technology farm and yet this up-coming quarter -- the APU may be the reason for lack luster results.

Will be interesting to see how the quarter is officially and how this effects the company moving forward. Rory Read has a lot of work to do and very hard decisions to make, one may imagine -- very challenging.
 

Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
275
126
If you note, AMD didnt spend on R&D or processnode when they had the cash and was in front. They was backlaid and arrogant and assumed everything would be a freeride from there. And then used it all to buy ATI for a huge overprice. AMD essentially doomed itself back in 2003/2004.

yes, they used alot of money to buy ATI...
but if intel didn't used it's dirt work, AMD would have had even more money
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
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yes, they used alot of money to buy ATI...
but if intel didn't used it's dirt work, AMD would have had even more money

Thats abit of a myth. AMD was capacity constrained. Meaning they couldnt make more CPUs than they did. And also why they priced their CPUs as they did. Its not for fun AMD did a what? 75% total pricecut after Core 2?

Maybe you forgot the prices 11 months before Core 2 hit:
Athlon 64 X2 3800+ $354
Athlon 64 X2 4200+ $482
Athlon 64 X2 4400+ $537
Athlon 64 X2 4600+ $704
Athlon 64 X2 4800+ $902

All while they were more busy making PDFs like this:
http://shintai.ambition.cz/amd-arrogance.pdf

AMD simply didnt innovate or move anywhere when they had the lead. They just sat back and thought it was a sure win from here without effort.
 
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SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
1
0
yes, they used alot of money to buy ATI...
but if intel didn't used it's dirt work, AMD would have had even more money

Intel played dirty on nVidia as well.

The key for innovation moving forward is to break the chains of x86.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
More sales (you can term it market penetration or whatever) -> more profits to plow back into R&D -> possibly better outcome. I am not saying it would have been for sure a significantly greater outcome, but it probably wouldn't have been worse!

But this doesn't make sense. Intel always pulled these tactics as far back as anyone can remember. Then the Athlon came along. It was FANTASTIC and it made Intel look foolish. People swarmed to buy it. Then there was the huge misstep of Netburst and again, the Athlon made it look like a second tier offering for most of Netburst's life save for a short Northwood spurt. Then Athlon 64 and X2 dominated for a long time. People bought them. They were awesome CPUs.

My point is, they had good product. Plenty of money for R&D. Then bought ATI. Done for.

EDIT: IMHO and with some strong hindsight :D AMD should have left ATI alone. Both companies would have been so much stronger right now.
And to sell their mobile division? Snapdragon? What was the possible thinking there? How short sighted can ANYONE be to sell a very successful design on the CUSP of a mobile computing (smartphone, tablet, netbook) BOOM! It's depressing and almost looks like it was intentionally done to purposefully screw themselves. Self destruction is the order of the day for AMD.
 
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Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
275
126
Thats abit of a myth. AMD was capacity constrained. meanign they couldnt make more CPUs than they did. And also why they priced their CPUs as they did. Its not for fun AMD did a what? 75% total pricecut after Core 2?

you know that they wanted to give CPUs for FREE for HP?
but HP had to recuse because that would break some contract...:whiste:
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
But this doesn't make sense. Intel always pulled these tactics as far back as anyone can remember. Then the Athlon came along. It was FANTASTIC and it made Intel look foolish. People swarmed to buy it. Then there was the huge misstep of Netburst and again, the Athlon made it look like a second tier offering for most of Netburst's life save for a short Northwood spurt. Then Athlon 64 and X2 dominated for a long time. People bought them. They were awesome CPUs.

My point is, they had good product. Plenty of money for R&D. Then bought ATI. Done for.

EDIT: IMHO and with some strong hindsight :D AMD should have left ATI alone. Both companies would have been so much stronger right now.
And to sell their mobile division? Snapdragon? What was the possible thinking there? How short sighted can ANYONE be to sell a very successful design on the CUSP of a mobile computing (smartphone, tablet, netbook) BOOM! It's depressing and almost looks like it was intentionally done to purposefully screw themselves. Self destruction is the order of the day for AMD.

What I wrote seems difficult to refute, though it is true that there were capacity constraints. But question why Intel would stoop so low if AMD were completely constrained anyway? In other words if capacity were going to hamstring AMD anyway, why did Intel do what it did? Food for thought.

Btw, you seem to be interpreting what I wrote to be something else.

pos·si·ble (ps-bl)
adj.
1. Capable of happening, existing, or being true without contradicting proven facts, laws, or circumstances.
2. Capable of occurring or being done without offense to character, nature, or custom.
3. Capable of favorable development; potential: a possible site for the new capital.
4. Of uncertain likelihood.

prob·a·ble (prb-bl)
adj.
1. Likely to happen or to be true: War seemed probable in 1938. The home team, far ahead, is the probable winner.
2. Likely but uncertain; plausible.
3. Theology Of or relating to opinions and actions in ethics and morals for whose lawfulness intrinsic reasons or extrinsic authority may be adduced.

worse (wûrs)
adj. Comparative of bad1, ill.
1. More inferior, as in quality, condition, or effect.
2. More severe or unfavorable.
3. Being further from a standard; less desirable or satisfactory.
4. Being in poorer health; more ill.
n.
Something that is worse: Of the two routes, the eastern one is the worse. She was accused of cheating on exams, lying, and worse.
adv. Comparative of badly, ill.
In a worse manner; to a worse degree.
Idiom:
for better or (for) worse
Whether the situation or consequences be good or ill: For better or worse, he trusts everyone.
 
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Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
Mrk6 was replying to someone else about the GK104/7970. Then you jumped in with your odd remark about 'AMD not doing anything' and continuing on about GK104/680 - strange way to say that its only irony. Why jump in with inflammatory and sarcastic remark in a sensitive thread and continuing on in the sister thread in the cpu forum, especially with your baggage in your sig.

AMD's gpu side did well recently by taking market share from Nvidia for good reason, their cards perform well.

Go pick your bone elsewhere. You have a prob with my sig, that's your issue.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
What I wrote is pretty hard to refute. You seem to be interpreting what I wrote to be something else.

pos·si·ble (ps-bl)
adj.
1. Capable of happening, existing, or being true without contradicting proven facts, laws, or circumstances.
2. Capable of occurring or being done without offense to character, nature, or custom.
3. Capable of favorable development; potential: a possible site for the new capital.
4. Of uncertain likelihood.

prob·a·ble (prb-bl)
adj.
1. Likely to happen or to be true: War seemed probable in 1938. The home team, far ahead, is the probable winner.
2. Likely but uncertain; plausible.
3. Theology Of or relating to opinions and actions in ethics and morals for whose lawfulness intrinsic reasons or extrinsic authority may be adduced.

worse (wûrs)
adj. Comparative of bad1, ill.
1. More inferior, as in quality, condition, or effect.
2. More severe or unfavorable.
3. Being further from a standard; less desirable or satisfactory.
4. Being in poorer health; more ill.
n.
Something that is worse: Of the two routes, the eastern one is the worse. She was accused of cheating on exams, lying, and worse.
adv. Comparative of badly, ill.
In a worse manner; to a worse degree.
Idiom:
for better or (for) worse
Whether the situation or consequences be good or ill: For better or worse, he trusts everyone.


I could possibly inherit 7 billion dollars tomorrow and start my own semi conductor design company. Is it possible? Sure. Probable? Noooo.
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
What is this BS blastingcap? ^^

Do you know English? If not, I provided definitions for you.

This is what I wrote and it should be pretty easy to understand:

AMD had plenty of self-inflicted wounds as well, but Intel certainly did not help.

More sales (you can term it market penetration or whatever) -> more profits to plow back into R&D -> possibly better outcome. I am not saying it would have been for sure a significantly greater outcome, but it probably wouldn't have been worse!


Shin did bring up capacity constraints, but I didn't see you bring up much relevant given that I already agreed AMD had plenty of self-inflicted wounds. You are implying AMD had "enough" R&D but as those in CPU forum apparently agreed, more R&D spending will generally not hurt, only help... I think someone even posted a graph showing how Intel's R&D was greater than AMD's entire revenue or something like that. So it's disingenuous to say that AMD had "plenty" of R&D; plenty compared to what? It certainly was not "plenty" compared to Intel's comparatively massive R&D budget.
 
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