AMD Q2 Result.

[AtenRa]

When AMD had the Athlon their market share grew to their capacity. So yes, the market reacted favorably to a product that was great.

It was also when Intel had a very inferior CPU, something that is not happening today.

 

[Abwx]

Even if AMD had the ultimate product tomorrow it would not increase its market share substantially because Intel would simple give higher rebates.

In the mobile market it s well beyond what could be called rebates, that s plain money + chips gifts.
One doesnt make an average of 90$ loss/chip by giving for free chips whose production cost is barely 15$/unity...

If anything this will create a perception that Intel = low performance, that will be the still unpaid bill for flooding the market with thoses low performing items.

To add insult to injury all they did achieve by getting AMD out of this market was to ensure that ARM has no valuable competition from X86 equivalent solutions..

Ultimately 30 millions of thoses chips, according to digitimes, ended in W8 items last year and most are still squatting inventories and shelves with completely pointeless configurations, AIOs with 2C baytrails for instance that the usual Intel supporters will deem good enough, of course....

Let Intel destroy their reputation, and get the inevitable answer from AMD who, as a consequence of Intel distorting the market with anti competive practices, have no other choice left than to target the segments where Intel is making their bread and butter, that is, where contra revenues would be suicidal.

 

[Dresdenboy]

Who else do you blame? Those making better products?

Isn't that a bit one-sighted? In some aspects, Bugatti Veyron is the better car, in other aspects it's the VW Golf/Rabbit (even non-GTI).

And economically there are also different views of the better product. Of course it's easier to sell it, but revenue alone is not the only number counting here.

 

[mrmt]

Isn't that a bit one-sighted? In some aspects, Bugatti Veyron is the better car, in other aspects it's the VW Golf/Rabbit (even non-GTI).

The Buggati Veyron customer isn't the same customer of the VW Golf. The same would be true when comparing AMD APU with IBM Power 8, and that's an one-sighted comparison, but certainly this isn't the case when comparing AMD APU with Intel CPUs, as the customer of AMD APU is the same customer of Intel CPUs, or Intel CPU + Nvidia dGPU.

AMD had a vision of what the market would be (that a beefier iGPU parts would command a sizable price premium over leaner iGPU parts) that didn't prove to be correct in the end. This is the market veredict.

 

[cytg111]

It was also when Intel had a very inferior CPU, something that is not happening today.

How is that _not_ the other side of the same coin?

 

[AtenRa]

How is that _not_ the other side of the same coin?

What i mean is that, for example, Intel will not have a P4 when AMD Zen will release next year. So even if ZEN is close or faster than Skylake AMD market share will not explode like it did back with the Athlon era.

 

[Dresdenboy]

The Buggati Veyron customer isn't the same customer of the VW Golf. The same would be true when comparing AMD APU with IBM Power 8, and that's an one-sighted comparison, but certainly this isn't the case when comparing AMD APU with Intel CPUs, as the customer of AMD APU is the same customer of Intel CPUs, or Intel CPU + Nvidia dGPU.

That's it. And we shouldn't loosen the focus here. Bugatti/Golf are extreme examples. But the CPU markets are also differentiated. There are power users, who don't need an iGPU, those, who want a good product for their budget, those who expect a long battery life, and so on. There are many dimensions, including those of more or less informed customers.

If the iPhone 6 is the best smart phone for many youngsters (who don't need fancy stuff like bent displays), why doesn't everyone simply buy it? Together with a plan, which hides the true costs, this should work nicely.

One of my friends recently upgraded from an i5-something to a i7-4790K, 16GB, SSD, while keeping the dGPU. While his checked Passmark scores were twice that of his i5, he is disappointed, as in video editing with multiple streams the system doesn't feel much faster. What's the better CPU then? Maybe one without HT? I couldn't find out that effect, since video editing performance (shuffling through the streams, insert clips etc.) has never been tested, only encoding (which he doesn't care about, letting that run over night).

If we start to see every possible customer as one clone of many, we aren't better than politicians.

AMD had a vision of what the market would be (that a beefier iGPU parts would command a sizable price premium over leaner iGPU parts) that didn't prove to be correct in the end. This is the market veredict.

I think, this didn't work out as expected (similar to the compiler/code base adaption for the Bulldozer uarch). Predicting such market movements might be as easy as in the case of Itanium back then. In the end they just filled the available headroom of a target TDP with GPU CUs due to missing more efficient CPU cores.

Anyway, Kaveri (and likely also the Cat APUs) somehow managed to increase the number of APUs sold one year ago:
http://www.jonpeddie.com/press-rele...n-gpu-shipments-in-q2-intel-up-4-nvidia-slips

 

[Phynaz]

Let Intel destroy their reputation, and get the inevitable answer from AMD who, as a consequence of Intel distorting the market with anti competive practices, have no other choice left than to target the segments where Intel is making their bread and butter, that is, where contra revenues would be suicidal.

How incompetent AMD must be if Intel is engaging in anti-competitive practices and they aren't screaming their heads off to anyone that will listen - like to you for example.

That, or the tablet contra-revenue isn't anti-competitive.

Choose one, they are mutually exclusive.

 

[Abwx]

How incompetent AMD must be if Intel is engaging in anti-competitive practices and they aren't screaming their heads off to anyone that will listen - like to you for example.

That, or the tablet contra-revenue isn't anti-competitive.

Choose one, they are mutually exclusive.

It wont take long if EU authorities hear about it, Qualcomm is already under investigation by the EU for the very same practice as Intel :

http://www.hardware.fr/news/14291/qualcomm-vise-par-deux-enquetes-anti-trust.html

For selling chips below their production costs..

So i let you imagine for giving them along with subsides, no wonder that Intel buried thoses numbers within the rest of their activities...

As for AMD they can do nothing as this would imply suing their own customers, i already pointed it months if not years ago...

 

[ShintaiDK]

Qualcomm is more about their "bundle" deals. If you want A you also have to by B.

 

[Phynaz]

It wont take long if EU authorities hear about it, Qualcomm is already under investigation by the EU for the very same practice as Intel :

http://www.hardware.fr/news/14291/qualcomm-vise-par-deux-enquetes-anti-trust.html

For selling chips below their production costs..

So i let you imagine for giving them along with subsides, no wonder that Intel buried thoses numbers within the rest of their activities...

As for AMD they can do nothing as this would imply suing their own customers, i already pointed it months if not years ago...

Why hasn't AMD said a word to ANY regulatory agency? Why have they made no public statements of any sort, even when directly asked about contra-revenue? Are they incompetent, or is there nothing for them to complain about?

Again, it's one or the other. Which one is it?

 

[Abwx]

How incompetent AMD must be if Intel is engaging in anti-competitive practices and they aren't screaming their heads off to anyone that will listen - like to you for example.

..

As for AMD they can do nothing as this would imply suing their own customers, i already pointed it months if not years ago...

Why hasn't AMD said a word to ANY regulatory agency? Why have they made no public statements of any sort, even when directly asked about contra-revenue? Are they incompetent, or is there nothing for them to complain about?

Again, it's one or the other. Which one is it?

Years, months, weeks, does it really matter..?..

Another day, another man...

 

[mrmt]

That's it. And we shouldn't loosen the focus here. Bugatti/Golf are extreme examples. But the CPU markets are also differentiated. There are power users, who don't need an iGPU, those, who want a good product for their budget, those who expect a long battery life, and so on. There are many dimensions, including those of more or less informed customers.

I don't think the main issue with AMD processors is just raw performance. Think about it, if raw performance were an issue there wouldn't be Celeron/Pentium sales because these processors have raw performance lower than some AMD processors.

The main AMD error IMO was to bet the farm in a fireball design by the time both the mobile and server market were going for more efficiency, this lack of efficiency killed AMD on mobile, because nobody would equip AMD power hogs in premium SKUs and they became toxic in datacenters as soon as Bulldozer arrived.

The second main error was the APU. The extra GPU CU just became extra cost because of the bigger die size. In retrospect they would be better with a smaller GPU and leaner cost structure.

Without a performance crown, without efficiency and without cost they ended basically with a vicious trifecta that killed the upper part of their product stack, and the lack of investments killed the bottom of the stack. AMD products might have value for a few niche customers, but for the supply chain, it's just bad products.

Anyway, Kaveri (and likely also the Cat APUs) somehow managed to increase the number of APUs sold one year ago:
http://www.jonpeddie.com/press-rele...n-gpu-shipments-in-q2-intel-up-4-nvidia-slips

This is what AMD said about the Q214:

Computing Solutions segment revenue decreased 8 percent sequentially and 12 percent yearover-year. The sequential and year-over-year declines were due to decreased client unit shipments.

Operating loss was $3 million, an improvement from an operating loss of $7 million in Q4 2013 and $39 million in Q1 2013 driven by lower operating expenses. Microprocessor average selling price (ASP) was flat sequentially and decreased slightly year-over-year

Q214 was the quarter where Kaveri for notebooks started shipping for OEMs, and as expected we saw a surge in sales as it happened in every launch. By Q3 we could already spot the downward trend establishing itself again.

The problem with APU is that in no segment it was capable of replacing the sales of old products at a 1:1 or greater ratio, AMD always sold less units of APU than of its previous products and with lower margins, that killed the company balance sheet.

 

[dark zero]

How incompetent AMD must be if Intel is engaging in anti-competitive practices and they aren't screaming their heads off to anyone that will listen - like to you for example.

That, or the tablet contra-revenue isn't anti-competitive.

Choose one, they are mutually exclusive.

Intel is with US and Israel government, so no one may dare to sue them

 

[Phynaz]

Years, months, weeks, does it really matter..?..

Another day, another man...

Wut?

 

[mrmt]

Intel is with US and Israel government, so no one may dare to sue them

Really? Then why did Intel pay lots of fines and settlements?

 

[dark zero]

Really? Then why did Intel pay lots of fines and settlements?

Being allied to the government doesn't make them being inmune to pay taxes. That applies everywhere.

 

[mrmt]

Being allied to the government doesn't make them being inmune to pay taxes. That applies everywhere.

I'm not talking about taxes, I'm talking about legal settlements and fines.

 

[Phynaz]

Intel is with US and Israel government, so no one may dare to sue them

AMD and Intel have sued each other several times. If the was a competition issue you can bet AMD would do it again, if for no other reason than to get the press coverage.

History:
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/11/12/a-timeline-of-intel-and-amds-legal-battles/

 

[Abwx]

Wut?

Contra revenues benefit to firms that are also AMD customers, the biggest one seems to be Asus for instance, that s not a case that they can manage with a clear cut as getting Intel in trial would also get thoses firms in trial and eventual reprisal would be dreadfull for AMD given their financial situation..

That said not that thoses contra revenues really helped, quite the contrary, HP who didnt seem to jump on this band waggon got an average 2014 year while Asus, a big proponent in this matter, just sold 10 millions related items without any money made..

As to battle the ARM camp, well, the outcome is quite surprising, and AMD are 100% right to not go suicidal a la Intel in razzor margin markets :


http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20150721PD216.html

Qualcomm aims to ramp up its penetration in the entry-level mobile device market by cooperating with Microsoft to launch low-cost Windows Mobile 10 products,

To maintain its market share, Qualcomm's cooperation with Microsoft aims to roll out Windows Mobile 10-based smartphones priced at about US$80 in the end-market

What can be made within the 80$ price..?.

5$..?..10$..??.

 

[dark zero]

It was also when Intel had a very inferior CPU, something that is not happening today.

We need to see Skylake on real terrain with Windows 10 to confirm that.

 

[Phynaz]

Contra revenues benefit to firms that are also AMD customers, the biggest one seems to be Asus for instance, that s not a case that they can manage with a clear cut as getting Intel in trial would also get thoses firms in trial and eventual reprisal would be dreadfull for AMD given their financial situation..

That said not that thoses contra revenues really helped, quite the contrary, HP who didnt seem to jump on this band waggon got an average 2014 year while Asus, a big proponent in this matter, just sold 10 millions related items without any money made..

As to battle the ARM camp, well, the outcome is quite surprising, and AMD are 100% right to not go suicidal a la Intel in razzor margin markets :


http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20150721PD216.html
What can be made within the 80$ price..?.

5$..?..10$..??.

You're still not answering the question I asked of you.

 

[cytg111]

You're still not answering the question I asked of you.

- and you're gonna cyberstalk him till he does? Maybe it was a stupid question or just not relevant, its one or the other, which one is it?

 

[CHADBOGA]

Maybe it was a stupid question or just not relevant, its one or the other, which one is it?

You are conveniently forgetting other options. D:

 

[cytg111]

You are conveniently forgetting other options. D:

You're still not answering the question I asked of you.

wait, wrong player, disregard that.