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AMD price cuts arrive?

Good prices but i wouldn't even recommend a buy with less than a month away from Barts XT release. However, for non-enthusiasts (the mass market) its priced just right and will be a good deal.

The CF numbers with new drivers for Barts and Cayman is very impressive. The N.I. "uncore" is the culprit, heavily tweaked for better multi-gpu scaling. Some might call it "CF as it was meant to be" with features that ATI always wanted to do but couldn't for one reason or another.

Bad news now, the pricing for Barts XT has just gone up, how much, with the latest drivers its performing onpar with a 5870 in older games and just smashing it in dx11 and CF (has a lower TDP to boot). I can't see it retailing for less than $250 (the gtx460 and 5850 will be ~$200).

Edit: Watagump, i never saw any reason to buy a 5870 over a 5850 myself. Both cards will typically OC to 950 or 1ghz core and 4.8Gbps ram, at identical OC settings, the perf. difference is negligible. Unless you plan to not OC, a 5850 is better value.
 
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The twin frozr II is probably the aftermarket heatsink/fan that can be bought already installed on the GPU. I have my gtx465 overclocked from 607mhz to 850mhz core (40%) and the memory from 3200mhz to 4000mhz (25%) with only a small increase in voltage.

For anyone looking to upgrade - this is a very good buy.
 
Basically that's the price the HD 5850 was at launch 11 months ago and MSI/Newegg is about the only situation giving those large MIRs. Its a price cut, but they're more or less like they use to be. Basically, they entire HD 5000 line up is just getting back to where it was a year ago and it took clearing out for the HD 6000s and a little belated competition from Nvidia to get them there.
 
Silverforce11 said:
Edit: Watagump, i never saw any reason to buy a 5870 over a 5850 myself. Both cards will typically OC to 950 or 1ghz core and 4.8Gbps ram, at identical OC settings, the perf. difference is negligible. Unless you plan to not OC, a 5850 is better value.
Click to expand...

+1 vote for the 5850 🙂

Is a pretty good price for the card AR

I'm hoping we get a nice price war pretty soon....Also eager to see the numbers on the 6xxx series
 
Silverforce11 said:
Good prices but i wouldn't even recommend a buy with less than a month away from Barts XT release. However, for non-enthusiasts (the mass market) its priced just right and will be a good deal.

The CF numbers with new drivers for Barts and Cayman is very impressive. The N.I. "uncore" is the culprit, heavily tweaked for better multi-gpu scaling. Some might call it "CF as it was meant to be" with features that ATI always wanted to do but couldn't for one reason or another.

Bad news now, the pricing for Barts XT has just gone up, how much, with the latest drivers its performing onpar with a 5870 in older games and just smashing it in dx11 and CF (has a lower TDP to boot). I can't see it retailing for less than $250 (the gtx460 and 5850 will be ~$200).
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If it performs as well or better than an HD5870 and sells for $250 it is good news.
They will sell heaps at that price/performance level.
 
If a single Barts XT GPU performs on par with a 5870 and sells for $250, no thanks. Better than the pricing of a 5870, but that's not much progress as far as price/performance goes. Could just pick up that 5850 for $208AR and OC the snot out of it instead.
 
Avalon said:
If a single Barts XT GPU performs on par with a 5870 and sells for $250, no thanks. Better than the pricing of a 5870, but that's not much progress as far as price/performance goes. Could just pick up that 5850 for $208AR and OC the snot out of it instead.
Click to expand...

I agree. Without a nice bump up in price/perf, what's the point? AMD is going to lose my sale if it plays pricing games. If they are smart, they will keep kicking NV while its down, because NV won't be down forever. Taking NV market share means fewer people in NV's CUDA/PhysX system. AMD doesn't have the greatest history of exploiting its advantages to the fullest, though. 🙁

I think $203 is arguably fair for Barts XT pricing if it has ~5870 performance levels. Why $203?

1) At the 4870 perf level, it cost $300 when 4870 launched and $160 when 5770 launched--almost half off (-47&#37😉.

2) At the 5870 perf level, it cost $380 when 5870 launched. If we keep the same ratio and assume Barts XT performs at 5870 levels, then Barts XT would cost $203.

Granted there was a process change going from 55nm to 40nm and that's not true this time, but it's also true that TSMC's 40nm process has matured since Cypress's launch and thus made 40nm cheaper to work with. Plus, $379 was way above the $300 launch price of 4870 to begin with.

A counterarg to this is that launch prices don't count, street prices do. And the street price of 5870s remains stuck at ~$350, despite GTX470s at $270-280 and 5850s nearing $210. So the counterarg would be that Barts XT should cost whatever the street price for 5870s is on Oct. 25, 2010 (assuming that Barts XT has ~5870 performance), which may be as much as $350:

1) At the 4870 perf level, 5770 launched for $160, which was $10 MORE (6.7% more) than the then-current street price of $150 for 4870s. But 5770s came with DX11 which weakens the argument a bit, as the cards were different DX generations. So let's say that the $10 (6.7%) increase was the "DX11 tax."

2) At the 5870 perf level, 6870 has no "DX11 tax" over the 5870. So it should launch for about the same price that 5870s go for on the street on October 25, 2010.

Given all of the above, I think we can expect Barts XT--if it really has 5870 performance--to sell for anywhere from $203 to whatever the street price is for 5870s on Oct. 25--which will be $275. Why $275? I don't know, it's a mostly a wild-arsed guess. 🙂 But given that GTX460 SLI shouldn't cost that much more than $275 at that point (and have no need for a dongle for multi-monitor), and GTX470 prices have sometimes dipped to that level in the past on sales, and given the prices of 5850s have already approached $210 TODAY, let alone on Oct. 25, I think $275 for a 5870 on Oct. 25 isn't too insane.

AMD, don't screw this up. Price Barts XT at $203 (or less if it has less than 5870 performance)! 🙂
 
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Silverforce11 said:
Bad news now, the pricing for Barts XT has just gone up, how much, with the latest drivers its performing onpar with a 5870 in older games and just smashing it in dx11 and CF (has a lower TDP to boot). I can't see it retailing for less than $250 (the gtx460 and 5850 will be ~$200).
Click to expand...
Where are you getting this info?
 
I think it's a little unrealistic to expect a $200 card that performs like HD5870 yet.
Manufacturing and component costs alone make up a sizable chunk of a part with that level of performance.
As the node remains at 40nm it will still require robust cooling,1GB worth of VRAM and high performance VRMs,all of which don't come cheap.
I imagine the current 5770 is quite a lot cheaper to produce as it doesn't require such high end components.
Perhaps AMD will be able to price such a card at $200...but I doubt it.
 
I thought barts XT was going to be named "HD6870", perform at ~90% of a HD5870, and be released between oct 12- oct 25. I thought it was supposed to be priced equal to a GTX 460 1gb, and suspect that it would have better CF scaling along with the Eyefinity 4+ and improved tessellation capability.
 
Will Robinson said:
I think it's a little unrealistic to expect a $200 card that performs like HD5870 yet.
Manufacturing and component costs alone make up a sizable chunk of a part with that level of performance.
As the node remains at 40nm it will still require robust cooling,1GB worth of VRAM and high performance VRMs,all of which don't come cheap.
I imagine the current 5770 is quite a lot cheaper to produce as it doesn't require such high end components.
Perhaps AMD will be able to price such a card at $200...but I doubt it.
Click to expand...

I said Oct. 25, 2010, not Sept. 22, 2010. 🙂

Also, I don't see why Barts XT components would cost more than 5870 components. Barts XT should be cheaper.

5870 vs. Barts XT cost comparison:

Both use 256-bit PCB VRMs and other such components (and some people are saying that Barts's PCB is merely the Cypress PCB with a tweak or two, to save on design costs) = roughly equal cost

allegedly both use same-speed 1 GB VRAM vs. 1 GB VRAM = roughly equal cost

5870 has a backplate that I doubt Barts XT will have = cheaper for Barts XT

cooling costs = if Barts XT has a 188W TDP like Cypress had, then it's a tie; I suspect that Barts XT will have a lower TDP though, given the smaller die size, meaning Barts XT probably has cheaper cooling costs (this is an approximation because power and cooling have a non-linear relationship, and more-utilized Barts shaders may mean thermal density problems that the less-efficient shaders of Cypress don't have, etc.)

Last but not least, the GPU itself should be cheaper to make. Assuming that Barts XT is 70% the size of Cayman, Barts XT will probably have a smaller die than Cypress (.7 * 1.17 is about 0.82, which is less than 1.0 the last time I checked), on a more mature 40nm TSMC process (i.e., higher yields) = cheaper for Barts XT

Are these cost savings enough so that selling Barts XT will be as profitable as selling $350 5870s? Perhaps not, but the thicker profit margins will be on Cayman and Antilles anyway.
 
Will Robinson said:
I think it's a little unrealistic to expect a $200 card that performs like HD5870 yet.
Manufacturing and component costs alone make up a sizable chunk of a part with that level of performance.
As the node remains at 40nm it will still require robust cooling,1GB worth of VRAM and high performance VRMs,all of which don't come cheap.
I imagine the current 5770 is quite a lot cheaper to produce as it doesn't require such high end components.
Perhaps AMD will be able to price such a card at $200...but I doubt it.
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Wasn't Barts XT AMD's answer to GTX 460? $250 definitely won't cut it.
 
blastingcap said:
I said Oct. 25, 2010, not Sept. 22, 2010. 🙂

Also, I don't see why Barts XT components would cost more than 5870 components. Barts XT should be cheaper.

5870 vs. Barts XT cost comparison:

Both use 256-bit PCB VRMs and other such components (and some people are saying that Barts's PCB is merely the Cypress PCB with a tweak or two, to save on design costs) = roughly equal cost

allegedly both use same-speed 1 GB VRAM vs. 1 GB VRAM = roughly equal cost

5870 has a backplate that I doubt Barts XT will have = cheaper for Barts XT

cooling costs = if Barts XT has a 188W TDP like Cypress had, then it's a tie; I suspect that Barts XT will have a lower TDP though, given the smaller die size, meaning Barts XT probably has cheaper cooling costs (this is an approximation because power and cooling have a non-linear relationship, and more-utilized Barts shaders may mean thermal density problems that the less-efficient shaders of Cypress don't have, etc.)

Last but not least, the GPU itself should be cheaper to make. Assuming that Barts XT is 70% the size of Cayman, Barts XT will probably have a smaller die than Cypress (.7 * 1.17 is about 0.82, which is less than 1.0 the last time I checked), on a more mature 40nm TSMC process (i.e., higher yields) = cheaper for Barts XT

Are these cost savings enough so that selling Barts XT will be as profitable as selling $350 5870s? Perhaps not, but the thicker profit margins will be on Cayman and Antilles anyway.
Click to expand...
Sorry...did I ask you/question you about theoretical dates?
Did I say Barts components would cost more....? Who are you replying to?😕
 
Will Robinson said:
Sorry...did I ask you/question you about theoretical dates?
Did I say Barts components would cost more....? Who are you replying to?😕
Click to expand...

🙄 I quoted your post in which you talked about 5870 perf levels for $200. Don't play dumb. You said you didn't think $200 for ~5870 perf was realistic and then went on about 5770 components when imho the better comparison is Barts XT vs. Cypress XT costs (heck, weren't you the one who linked to a $209 Cypress Pro card?). I outlined how $200 launch prices for Barts XT might not be completely out of the question. Barts is not the overpriced halo product like Cypress XT was. The overpriced halo stuff will be Cayman and Antilles.
 
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blastingcap said:
🙄 I quoted your post in which you talked about 5870 perf levels for $200. Don't play dumb. You said you didn't think $200 for ~5870 perf was realistic and then went on about 5770 components when imho the better comparison is Barts XT vs. Cypress XT costs (heck, weren't you the one who linked to a $209 Cypress Pro card?). I outlined how $200 launch prices for Barts XT might not be completely out of the question. Barts is not the overpriced halo product like Cypress XT was. The overpriced halo stuff will be Cayman and Antilles.
Click to expand...

Sorry,you have reading fail.
My point was performance at the level of HD5870 will probably require 5870 price level components...hence its likely 5770 with cheaper components is more profitable.
I still don't get the dates thing tho.😕
And FYI Cypress 5870 was never an over priced halo product...check price of similar performance NV cards at launch time.
Halo product was the disagreeably overpriced,but very fast Hemlock 5970.
 
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