AMD Polaris Thread: Radeon RX 480, RX 470 & RX 460 launching June 29th

[3DVagabond]

And many are stating that is useless. Who cares about being at the minimum spec for VR when you can't afford the headset? By the time you can, you're going to be below the specs for the actual games out. Not like there are many games out right now....Who wants to buy the minimum for tech they don't plan on using for at least a couple of years? Not me.

VR is too niche to matter to most $200 buyers.

Is $200 too little to matter to VR buyers? You're putting the cart before the horse. People aren't going to buy VR because of the 480. It's the other way around. They'll buy the 480 because of VR. Or, they'll buy it because it's the best performance you can get @ $200. Or both.

 

[sirmo]

Is $200 too little to matter to VR buyers? You're putting the cart before the horse. People aren't going to buy VR because of the 480. It's the other way around. They'll buy the 480 because of VR. Or, they'll buy it because it's the best performance you can get @ $200. Or both.

People will buy the VR glasses. Go home plug them into their computer and realize their GPU is way underpowered for VR. And then they will find rx480.

Or system integrators (OEMs) will sell VR ready computers with an rx480 provided.

 

[Armsdealer]

People will buy the VR glasses. Go home plug them into their computer and realize their GPU is way underpowered for VR. And then they will find rx480.

Or system integrators (OEMs) will sell VR ready computers with an rx480 provided.

Another point, which our esteemed compatriot RS has impounded into our heads, is that at VR resolutions of 2160x1200, which isn't far removed from 1080p, most people with even rx480 are going to be cpu bottlenecked. VR is unusual because it requires consistent performance above 90fps at low resolution => higher cpu requirements than most appreciate for the highest detail settings.

 

[IllogicalGlory]

Another point, which our esteemed compatriot RS has impounded into our heads, is that at VR resolutions of 2160x1200, which isn't far removed from 1080p, most people with even rx480 are going to be cpu bottlenecked. VR is unusual because it requires consistent performance above 90fps at low resolution => higher cpu requirements than most appreciate for the highest detail settings.

VR games with CPU FPS bounds below 90 FPS won't be very common.

 

[Armsdealer]

VR games with CPU FPS bounds below 90 FPS won't be very common.

In my mind, that is tautologically equivalent to saying VR games that take advantage of gpu power above rx480 won't be common. Cpu bottleneck at low res and high fps is real.

 

[IllogicalGlory]

In my mind, that is tautologically equivalent to saying VR games that take advantage of gpu power above rx480 won't be common. Cpu bottleneck at low res and high fps is real.

CPU bottlenecks are a problem in games that aren't targeted to specific performance levels at a specific resolution, or in games that are designed to take advantage of more than 4 cores (console ports). VR games are 90 FPS at ~1080p right now, and they'll be designed to do that with a 290 and a 4690K, and since there are very traditional graphics settings that affect CPU resources, the focus will be on the GPU only. Highest settings has little to do with CPU bottlenecks.

The choice of CPU is really not that important; single-thread performance is what's important, and nearly every Intel CPU performs fine in that regard. Using 6+ threads is a task that I don't think most VR developers are going to take on when they don't need to.

It's all about the software, and VR games are designed with plenty of restrictions and targets in mind.

 

[Armsdealer]

CPU bottlenecks are a problem in games that aren't targeted to specific performance levels at a specific resolution, or in games that are designed to take advantage of more than 4 cores (console ports). VR games are 90 FPS at ~1080p right now, and they'll be designed to do that with a 290 and a 4690K, and since there are very traditional graphics settings that affect CPU resources, the focus will be on the GPU only. Highest settings has little to do with CPU bottlenecks.

The choice of CPU is really not that important; single-thread performance is what's important, and nearly every Intel CPU performs fine in that regard. Using 6+ threads is a task that I don't think most VR developers are going to take on when they don't need to.

It's all about the software, and VR games are designed with plenty of restrictions and targets in mind.

What about for ports of traditional games to VR? Most people are struggling to run pcars in VR, and while no data has been conclusively collected on the issue, my guess would have been cpu bottlenecks. Fallout and doom are both slated for VR ports in the near future. I would expect cpu will be a big factor for ruining these properly.

don't you think the benchmarks provided by RS here are relevant?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2442910

Note especially the severe dropoff of min fps in those benches, which is what results in annoying judder in VR.


Assuming rx480 is in fact 3515 fsu points, I think the fact that most cpus are bottlenecks for gtx 980ti (3800 fsu points) in modern games at 1080p is relevant.

I'm no expert on the degree to which games are adapted to multithreaded performance, but the logic that single threaded performance is all that matters doesn't seem to be reflected in benchmarks. If that were true wouldn't a heavily overclocked i3 be the best thing since sliced bread?

 

[Silverforce11]

The next-gen VR games will be DX12/Vulkan because it allows better control of rendering for developers who are chasing fine controls to deliver smooth frames to both eye, and capable of fast async timewarp to not miss a head motion sync.

Current stuff is vomit inducing, just take some time to read reviews if you don't believe it.

It's a maturing tech, current GPUs shouldn't even be marketed for VR since it's so niche, but what they should really market instead is the future-proofing of architectures that will mean your upcoming investment will be relevant when the next wave of VR games & headsets are out.

 

[Armsdealer]

The next-gen VR games will be DX12/Vulkan because it allows better control of rendering for developers who are chasing fine controls to deliver smooth frames to both eye, and capable of fast async timewarp to not miss a head motion sync.

Current stuff is vomit inducing, just take some time to read reviews if you don't believe it.

It's a maturing tech, current GPUs shouldn't even be marketed for VR since it's so niche, but what they should really market instead is the future-proofing of architectures that will mean your upcoming investment will be relevant when the next wave of VR games & headsets are out.

I own a Vive. The hardware is remarkably good and imho the tracking needs no improvement whatsoever. The resolution desperately needs to go up, and the biggest bottleneck there is actually computer hardware (gpu / cpu) , not small 4k screens being unavailable / too expensive. Wouldn't mind getting rid of the wires, but it's not critical for me.

Motion sickness only occurs when the framerates drop or if you do something that would induce it in real life (eg I felt sick flipping over my f1 car a few times in pcars). Afaik from scouring vive reddit, almost nobody is running pcars at 90minfps with good settings. Based on what I've seen from RS, my conclusion was that it's a cpu issue.

 

[antihelten]

Another point, which our esteemed compatriot RS has impounded into our heads, is that at VR resolutions of 2160x1200

The Rift and the Vive may have display resolutions of 2160x1200, but that doesn't mean that they have render resolutions of that, since both of them effectively use supersampling.

The rift has a render target of 2700x1500 (1.25x higher) and the Vive has a render target of 3024x1680 (1.4x higher).

 

[3DVagabond]

The next-gen VR games will be DX12/Vulkan because it allows better control of rendering for developers who are chasing fine controls to deliver smooth frames to both eye, and capable of fast async timewarp to not miss a head motion sync.

Current stuff is vomit inducing, just take some time to read reviews if you don't believe it.

It's a maturing tech, current GPUs shouldn't even be marketed for VR since it's so niche, but what they should really market instead is the future-proofing of architectures that will mean your upcoming investment will be relevant when the next wave of VR games & headsets are out.

Liquid VR, which is Mantle.

 

[Sweepr]

AIDA64 Extreme Version: 5.70.3869 beta (Jun 12, 2016)

Release notes:
preliminary GPU information for AMD Radeon RX 470 (Polaris 10 Pro)
preliminary GPU information for AMD Radeon RX 480 (Polaris 10 XT)

www.aida64.com/downloads/N2I5NWNkNzc=

In past generations 'XT' referred to the full chip. Fiji XT (Fury X), Grenada XT/Hawaii XT (R9 390X), Antigua XT/Tonga XT (R9 380X).


Radeon RX 460 (Polaris 11?) @ 3DMark Fire Strike Extreme

Source: Baidu.

 

[swilli89]

AIDA64 Extreme Version: 5.70.3869 beta (Jun 12, 2016)



www.aida64.com/downloads/N2I5NWNkNzc=

In past generations 'XT' referred to the full chip. Fiji XT (Fury X), Grenada XT/Hawaii XT (R9 390X), Antigua XT/Tonga XT (R9 380X).


Radeon RX 460 (Polaris 11?) @ 3DMark Fire Strike Extreme

Source: Baidu.

What's the difference between firestrike extreme and ultra?

Also I was kind of hoping to see an rx490 today but this makes me think we might see a budget champ instead. At least we get a live demo of Zen!

 

[dazelord]

AIDA64 Extreme Version: 5.70.3869 beta (Jun 12, 2016)



www.aida64.com/downloads/N2I5NWNkNzc=

In past generations 'XT' referred to the full chip. Fiji XT (Fury X), Grenada XT/Hawaii XT (R9 390X), Antigua XT/Tonga XT (R9 380X).


Radeon RX 460 (Polaris 11?) @ 3DMark Fire Strike Extreme

Source: Baidu.

This would put the 460 into 270/270X territory?

 

[Glo.]

This would put the 460 into 270/270X territory?

No. 2800 pts in 3dMark FireStrike Extreme is GTX 970/980 levels.

It is 50W GPU O_O.

Edit, whoops. I thought it was Ultra. My bad. Closer to R9 380X than GTX 980.

 

[Sweepr]

 

[Dribble]

People will buy the VR glasses. Go home plug them into their computer and realize their GPU is way underpowered for VR. And then they will find rx480.

Or system integrators (OEMs) will sell VR ready computers with an rx480 provided.

No one will blow $800 on VR glasses without checking their pc is good enough and the first check will be the gpu. No one buy a new a RX480 to use with VR because they'll buy a much better gpu. No one will seriously buy an RX480 hoping to get VR glasses one day "when they are cheap" because by that time the RX480 will be old hat and way beneath the min VR spec.

Just accept it - trying to sell the RX480 for use with VR is dumb. AMD has a history of failing at marketing, and this is just another example. Lets take our mid range RX480 and try to sell it to the 0.1% of the market buying VR who due to the cost and high performance requirements of VR are not interested in something as low end as an RX480 anyway.

 

[swilli89]

No one will blow $800 on VR glasses without checking their pc is good enough and the first check will be the gpu. No one buy a new a RX480 to use with VR because they'll buy a much better gpu. No one will seriously buy an RX480 hoping to get VR glasses one day "when they are cheap" because by that time the RX480 will be old hat and way beneath the min VR spec.

Just accept it - trying to sell the RX480 for use with VR is dumb. AMD has a history of failing at marketing, and this is just another example. Lets take our mid range RX480 and try to sell it to the 0.1% of the market buying VR who due to the cost and high performance requirements of VR are not interested in something as low end as an RX480 anyway.

Dude stop. No one cares about this argument, and you're trying to steer the conversation back to this. It's a new day and we have announcements from AMD coming. Let it go...

 

[Yakk]

AMD is creating a VR benchmark for developers to use across consoles and PCs in creating their games, great initiative IMHO.

 

[Ma_Deuce]

No one will blow $800 on VR glasses without checking their pc is good enough and the first check will be the gpu.

You are putting way too much faith in everyone. Also, not everyone cares about having the "best" vr experience that money can buy. If someone is doing it on a budget, they are going to make sacrifices.

 

[R0H1T]

No. 2800 pts in 3dMark FireStrike Extreme is GTX 970/980 levels.

It is 50W GPU O_O.

Edit, whoops. I thought it was Ultra. My bad. Closer to R9 380X than GTX 980.

R9 380 level & OCed will likely match the 380x 😎

Then again speculation & some D:

 

[tential]

Is $200 too little to matter to VR buyers? You're putting the cart before the horse. People aren't going to buy VR because of the 480. It's the other way around. They'll buy the 480 because of VR. Or, they'll buy it because it's the best performance you can get @ $200. Or both.

I don't know how to make this any more clear.

A $200 minimum spec GPU for VR is useless. A person who isn't willing to spend more than $200 on a GPU won't spend $500+ for the headset. By the time the headset is affordable, they won't use an the 480. They'll use a far better GPU that is out at the time that can actually handle VR games.

No one will blow $800 on VR glasses without checking their pc is good enough and the first check will be the gpu. No one buy a new a RX480 to use with VR because they'll buy a much better gpu. No one will seriously buy an RX480 hoping to get VR glasses one day "when they are cheap" because by that time the RX480 will be old hat and way beneath the min VR spec.

Just accept it - trying to sell the RX480 for use with VR is dumb. AMD has a history of failing at marketing, and this is just another example. Lets take our mid range RX480 and try to sell it to the 0.1% of the market buying VR who due to the cost and high performance requirements of VR are not interested in something as low end as an RX480 anyway.

Thank god I'm not the only one. This is another instance of AMD marketing doing TERRIBLE.
Have you seen the arguments of the RX 480? People don't crossshop the GTX 1070/ RX480 because it's two different price brackets. $400+ and $200. But it's perfectly reasonable now to assume the RX480 price bracket purchasers are now interested in even far more expensive headsets than a GTX 1070? This is just insane.

 

[swilli89]

No. 2800 pts in 3dMark FireStrike Extreme is GTX 970/980 levels.

It is 50W GPU O_O.

Edit, whoops. I thought it was Ultra. My bad. Closer to R9 380X than GTX 980.

Which means that if it's going to be released before any new products from nvidia it will absolutely dominate the GTX 960/950.

 

[Head1985]

2900points is GTX950 performance

 

[Glo.]

If you would ask me it looks like the GPU has 1280-1536 GCN cores.