AMD Polaris Thread: Radeon RX 480, RX 470 & RX 460 launching June 29th

[Stuka87]

as someone who doesn't follow AMD, the numbers in their products are just ridiculously confusing and hard to follow. I have no idea which AMD card is faster etc. They should.

Also, The Polaris is being relesead in 3 weeks and yet they wont release any real benchmarks. That's either bad marketing or they know the card is a flop once again.

Once again? What is that in reference to? Hawaii was most definitely NOT a flop. The reference cooler sucked on the 290, but that was only an issue for about 2 months. The 1070/1080 cooler isn't up to the task either, and both cards throttle.

AMD is not releasing benchmarks because they want to give the least amount of time for nVidia to respond as possible.

 

[maddie]

Polaris 11 can occupy the $99 and $149 mark.

Polaris 10 shipping manifests from many months ago have 3 SKUs, C4 2048 SP, C7 (RX 480) 2304 SP and C10 2560 SP.

RX 480 and RX 480X is probably too much a mouthful. Too many Xs. There's gonna be full Polaris 10 8GB at the $299 mark given that Lisu Su already confirmed Polaris shipping at $100 to $300 segment.

The real interesting thing is the over-clock headroom on these SKUs. 1.26ghz on 14nm FF is really low base clocks. If they pull off a Tahiti OC, like 7950 800mhz -> 1.2ghz situation, it's gonna be a real winner.

She was even more specific than you have here.

She said:

"Radeon RX GPUs, 100 to 300 dollar price points"

 

[sze5003]

I just want to see some benchmarks. I would rather not wait for Vega. 2017 is too long for me to update. I hope since the 1070 will be released or announced next week then amd might put something out.

Otherwise is the 480 not suppose to compete with 1070?

 

[Silverforce11]

Hawaii was most definitely NOT a flop.

AMD is not releasing benchmarks because they want to give the least amount of time for nVidia to respond as possible.

vs Kepler, Hawaii certainly was not a flop. It clawed market-share of dGPU to above 37% for AMD, despite not having notebook wins! It only dropped when Maxwell 970/980 came out.

If you even compare Hawaii 3 months post launch vs Kepler, the non-reference 290/X were very competitive versus the 780 and 780Ti.

Amazing that it's beating the 970 and 980 in recent times consistently. Not bad for 2013 GPU.

She was even more specific than you have here.

She said:

"Radeon RX GPUs, 100 to 300 dollar price points"

Yeah, if they keep RX, the numeric value will have to scale and reflect the tier. This means Polaris 10:

C7 = RX 480
C4 = RX 470 / 475?
C10 = RX 485 / 490?

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Seems unlikely. If what's been announced as the 480 is cut (seems possible given it has 36 CUs) then the full P10 would be a 480X. 470 is probably a 32- part. 490 won't be out for several months (October if you believe some rumors) and isn't too likely to be seen until early 2017.

I'm guessing the full p10 (if it exists) will be RX 485.

Vega 10 will be RX490 and 495, and Vega 11 will will have fury branding.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[IllogicalGlory]

Once again? What is that in reference to? Hawaii was most definitely NOT a flop. The reference cooler sucked on the 290, but that was only an issue for about 2 months. The 1070/1080 cooler isn't up to the task either, and both cards throttle.

AMD is not releasing benchmarks because they want to give the least amount of time for nVidia to respond as possible.

Fiji flopped miserably and deservedly so. They needed to be priced at $550/$400 although it sill would have been embarrassing for AMD to see their 600^mm die get so badly trounced.

 

[maddie]

vs Kepler, Hawaii certainly was not a flop. It clawed market-share of dGPU to above 37% for AMD, despite not having notebook wins! It only dropped when Maxwell 970/980 came out.

If you even compare Hawaii 3 months post launch vs Kepler, the non-reference 290/X were very competitive versus the 780 and 780Ti.

Amazing that it's beating the 970 and 980 in recent times consistently. Not bad for 2013 GPU.



Yeah, if they keep RX, the numeric value will have to scale and reflect the tier. This means Polaris 10:

C7 = RX 480
C4 = RX 470 / 475?
C10 = RX 485 / 490?

What I'm seeing is two GPU lines developing like this.

RX450 =cut P11
RX460 =full P11
RX470 =2nd cut P10
RX480 =1st cut P10
RX490 =full P10

Vega will be the Fury line, maybe Fury RFX whatever

Fury small = cut and full models
Fury big = cut and full models

 

[tviceman]

I'm having an extremely hard time believing AMD is introducing its first finfet GPU as a 230mm2 cut down sku, especially in the face of getting cobblered in performance and low balling themselves with a $199-219 price. It takes an awful lot of faith to believe yields are that bad on a 230mm2 chip and/or a cash strapped, profit starved company cares that little about maximizing its ASP to lead with a cut down small die. I believe it about as much as I believe AMD when they said they couldn't find a price point to release a 384-bit Tonga.

Yeah. Right. Logic has to prevail at some point so I'm going with RX 480 being the top P10 sku insofar as core count is concerned. If AMD truly is leading a 230mm2 cut down die, then their suit wearing idiocracy continues to reign supreme.

 

[deanx0r]

Also, The Polaris is being relesead in 3 weeks and yet they wont release any real benchmarks. That's either bad marketing or they know the card is a flop once again.

They just announced it. I think they are leaving it to the reviews to put up independant benchmarks. At this point only a small fraction of the enthusiast avidly follows the GPU news. Gotta give time for reviewers to get their cards in and start testing. The 1070 was announced 4 weeks ago, NDA lifted just this week, and the card isn't available for sale yet. You are barking at the wrong tree.

 

[tential]

I'm having an extremely hard time believing AMD is introducing its first finfet GPU as a 230mm2 cut down sku, especially in the face of getting cobblered in performance and low balling themselves with a $199-219 price. It takes an awful lot of faith to believe yields are that bad on a 230mm2 chip and/or a cash strapped, profit starved company cares that little about maximizing its ASP to lead with a cut down small die. I believe it about as much as I believe AMD when they said they couldn't find a price point to release a 384-bit Tonga.

Yeah. Right. Logic has to prevail at some point so I'm going with RX 480 being the top P10 sku insofar as core count is concerned.

It was already explained that Apple is getting the full chips, if this isn't the full chip.

Just like AMD gave all of the full Tonga chips to Apple and used cutdown chips for the GPU market.

AMD is going to do what is most profitable for them, and if focusing on the $200 market and not competing with the 1070 is the most profitable thing then so be it.

People are forgeting that on Polaris release, the 1070 will NOT have AIB cards out, it will still be founders edition. That's $200 vs $450. Those who are cross-shopping such gpu classes, I doubt AMD ever stood a chance with them. AMD is really only going to be able to grab their $200 class sales over the next 2-3 months, while the 1060 is still coming out.

Since this is the $200 chip, and RX GPU launch covers the $100-300 price range, it is possible that as AMD gets more supply and is able to cover Apple + the PC dgpu market, that they announce the full $300 chip.

 

[tviceman]

It was already explained that Apple is getting the full chips, if this isn't the full chip.

Just like AMD gave all of the full Tonga chips to Apple and used cutdown chips for the GPU market.

AMD is going to do what is most profitable for them, and if focusing on the $200 market and not competing with the 1070 is the most profitable thing then so be it.

1. Apple doesn't sell that many computers with discrete GPU's. The math does not in anyway add up unless yields are in the toilet and this 230mm2 chip is Fermi 1.0 broken.

2. Apple never got a 384-bit Tonga chip.

Those two points obliterate all the P10 cut down theories except for AMD management being inept.

 

[Silverforce11]

I'm having an extremely hard time believing AMD is introducing its first finfet GPU as a 230mm2 cut down sku, especially in the face of getting cobblered in performance and low balling themselves with a $199-219 price. It takes an awful lot of faith to believe yields are that bad on a 230mm2 chip and/or a cash strapped, profit starved company cares that little about maximizing its ASP to lead with a cut down small die. I believe it about as much as I believe AMD when they said they couldn't find a price point to release a 384-bit Tonga.

Yeah. Right. Logic has to prevail at some point so I'm going with RX 480 being the top P10 sku insofar as core count is concerned. If AMD truly is leading a 230mm2 cut down die, then their suit wearing idiocracy continues to reign supreme.

Why? Do you realize Apple is about to refresh their entire lineup?

MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, even the new iMac 5K screen will include a dGPU.

Apple wants the best Polaris chips, full cores, low clocks, the best perf/w possible. If AMD agreed to be a supplier, they have to be able to meet Apple's volumes else they will get into trouble.

Apple sells enough dGPU options that in 1 quarter, AMD gained 7% marketshare. That's on old tech. When they refresh their line-up, the volumes will be incredible.

 

[tviceman]

Why? Do you realize Apple is about to refresh their entire lineup?

MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, even the new iMac 5K screen will include a dGPU.

Apple wants the best Polaris chips, full cores, low clocks, the best perf/w possible. If AMD agreed to be a supplier, they have to be able to meet Apple's volumes else they will get into trouble.

Apple sells enough dGPU options that in 1 quarter, AMD gained 7% marketshare. That's on old tech. When they refresh their line-up, the volumes will be incredible.

LOL. You said volume when taking about $2500 computers, as if it's a meaningful number when compared the the amount of P10 chips AMD will produce.

384-bit Tonga and "couldn't find the right price point" nonsense running wild all over again.

 

[Silverforce11]

LOL. You said volume when taking about $2500 computers, as if it's a meaningful number when compared the the amount of P10 chips AMD will produce.

384-bit Tonga and "couldn't find the right price point" nonsense running wild all over again.

Our idea of value and bang for buck don't actually apple to Apple products.

If you did even a little itty bit of research you would have realized the volume required for such a shift in marketshare %. Do a bit more digging at Apple related articles, you will be surprised to find they ship a LOT.

Where do you think AMD got it's huge Firepro marketshare gains from? Likewise Tonga notebook dGPU spiking up.

I don't see many AMD + Dell, or other OEM options that are popular enough to cause such a shift.

 

[Bacon1]

I just want to see some benchmarks. I would rather not wait for Vega. 2017 is too long for me to update. I hope since the 1070 will be released or announced next week then amd might put something out.

Otherwise is the 480 not suppose to compete with 1070?

Honestly the 480 shouldn't get close to the 1070, but I have a feeling it will.

It is priced at almost half the cost of the 1070. $199 vs >$370/450 (FE).

So either Nvidia is way over pricing cards, or the 480 should only perform half as fast as the 1070. We already know its going to be faster than half as fast though, so its a better deal price/perf.

Also wattage isn't going to be 150w used, 150w is the max allowed TDP for the board, due to 6 pin + 75w from motherboard.

I'm having an extremely hard time believing AMD is introducing its first finfet GPU as a 230mm2 cut down sku, especially in the face of getting cobblered in performance and low balling themselves with a $199-219 price. It takes an awful lot of faith to believe yields are that bad on a 230mm2 chip and/or a cash strapped, profit starved company cares that little about maximizing its ASP to lead with a cut down small die. I believe it about as much as I believe AMD when they said they couldn't find a price point to release a 384-bit Tonga.

Yeah. Right. Logic has to prevail at some point so I'm going with RX 480 being the top P10 sku insofar as core count is concerned. If AMD truly is leading a 230mm2 cut down die, then their suit wearing idiocracy continues to reign supreme.

You have a hard time believing it? Even though AMD has said from the beginning back in January that they were planning on providing minimum VR performance levels for mainstream cards? Aka 290x/970+ performance @ mainstream pricing.

https://youtu.be/p010lp5uLQA?t=963

 

[StrangerGuy]

Honestly the 480 shouldn't get close to the 1070, but I have a feeling it will.

It is priced at almost half the cost of the 1070. $199 vs >$370/450 (FE).

So either Nvidia is way over pricing cards, or the 480 should only perform half as fast as the 1070. We already know its going to be faster than half as fast though, so its a better deal price/perf.

"Anything to make AMD look bad"-esque goalpost shifting is a common rendering trick here.

Our idea of value and bang for buck don't actually apple to Apple products.

If you did even a little itty bit of research you would have realized the volume required for such a shift in marketshare %. Do a bit more digging at Apple related articles, you will be surprised to find they ship a LOT.

Where do you think AMD got it's huge Firepro marketshare gains from? Likewise Tonga notebook dGPU spiking up.

I don't see many AMD + Dell, or other OEM options that are popular enough to cause such a shift.

In terms of ASP, margins, % total profits Apple is far and away the most successful PC OEM. Just like iPhones there is no doubt they crush any competition in absolute volume when comes to sell high ASP SKUs, but retarded "analysts" doesn't want to look past anything but their marketshare.

 

[Elixer]

I'm having an extremely hard time believing AMD is introducing its first finfet GPU as a 230mm2 cut down sku, especially in the face of getting cobblered in performance and low balling themselves with a $199-219 price. It takes an awful lot of faith to believe yields are that bad on a 230mm2 chip and/or a cash strapped, profit starved company cares that little about maximizing its ASP to lead with a cut down small die. I believe it about as much as I believe AMD when they said they couldn't find a price point to release a 384-bit Tonga.

Yeah. Right. Logic has to prevail at some point so I'm going with RX 480 being the top P10 sku insofar as core count is concerned. If AMD truly is leading a 230mm2 cut down die, then their suit wearing idiocracy continues to reign supreme.

You are of the theory that the higher the priced, the more profit they can make, which is fine and all, but, the flip side of that is the lower you can price something, and sell more, would get you a profit as well, as long as you can sell them. Sure, the profit margin is higher at the top per unit, but, who knows, this could be where vega falls in.

This all falls back to the consoles though. If indeed it is true that they all are using a polaris type chip, then it makes the most sense that AMD will squeeze out as many chips as possible, while the fab is tuned for this production type, and since they must produce X amount of chips at GloFlo, this is a good way to get that out of the way.

 

[trane]

Fiji flopped miserably and deservedly so. They needed to be priced at $550/$400 although it sill would have been embarrassing for AMD to see their 600^mm die get so badly trounced.

Fiji is underrated. Fury X is matching Titan X at 4K, 980 Ti at 1440p. Perf/W isn't bad either, within 10% of Titan X. In fact, at 4K, Fury has better perf/W than both Titan X and 980 Ti. (Source: TPU's 1080 review) Fury Nano in fact has the best perf/W last generation - better than anything Maxwell can offer.

Fijii has aged better than Maxwell despite the 4 GB limit. In some recent DX12 games, it's the only graphics card that can hang with 1080. Within 10% in Hitman, Ashes and Quantum Break.

But of course, it's not as good as it could have been. Clearly it was designed for 20nm, if that had worked, it would be a a pretty killer GPU.

 

[sirmo]

230mm2 is really not that small of a chip for 14nm. Remember the smaller we go the worse the yield gets. I don't remember where I saw it but I remember seeing a slide presentation about it. A die could have a small defect on a 28nm gate and work fine, while that same defect is big enough to make a gate not function on a smaller node.

Therefore our perception of the die size needs to shrink with the node shrink.

 

[HiroThreading]

Why? Do you realize Apple is about to refresh their entire lineup?

MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, even the new iMac 5K screen will include a dGPU.

Apple wants the best Polaris chips, full cores, low clocks, the best perf/w possible. If AMD agreed to be a supplier, they have to be able to meet Apple's volumes else they will get into trouble.

Apple sells enough dGPU options that in 1 quarter, AMD gained 7% marketshare. That's on old tech. When they refresh their line-up, the volumes will be incredible.

Agreed. A lot of people here underestimate the effect of securing an Apple contract. Not to mention the positive PR that comes out of being a supplier to Apple.

I expect Polaris 11 to find its way into the refurbished MacBook Pro 15", baseline 5K iMac and the rumoured 5K Thunderbolt display (although, any low spec GPU could do this). Meanwhile Polaris 10 should fit into the up specced 5K iMac and the Mac Pro.

 

[sirmo]

AMD's 7% marketshare gain is due to r9 380

http://www.custompcreview.com/news/amd-news/amds-marketing-strategy-polaris-brilliant-heres/29367/

 

[trane]

I bet it's due to the 380X. That card was the only good option under $250. It's a shame they released it one year late, but I'm guessing Apple had bought up enough full Tongas for an entire year. I really hope this is not the case with Polaris 10 though of course they made much more money off a M295X/M390X going to Apple than off a 380X.

 

[Silverforce11]

AMD's 7% marketshare gain is due to r9 380

http://www.custompcreview.com/news/amd-news/amds-marketing-strategy-polaris-brilliant-heres/29367/

No, but it's due to Tonga. It's dGPU in notebooks (PC dGPU got only ~3% gains) that AMD got a big gain last quarter. That's from Apple. Obsolete tech.

When Apple refresh their entire lineup, we will see the masses of wealthy people lining up in queues to get the latest & greatest. That's AMD's full Polaris chips moving off the shelves.

Oh, I posted about this many months ago. The demands from Apple as well as next-gen console for 14nm FF APU means AMD will have a tough time supplying Polaris to the PC gaming market. So sending cut chips is all they are left with. I mean hopefully they can squeeze in a low volume full Polaris SKU too, but if they don't, you know where it's going.

 

[sirmo]

No, but it's due to Tonga. It's dGPU in notebooks (PC dGPU got only ~3% gains) that AMD got a big gain last quarter. That's from Apple. Obsolete tech.

When Apple refresh their entire lineup, we will see the masses of wealthy people lining up in queues to get the latest & greatest. That's AMD's full Polaris chips moving off the shelves.

Oh, I posted about this many months ago. The demands from Apple as well as next-gen console for 14nm FF APU means AMD will have a tough time supplying Polaris to the PC gaming market. So sending cut chips is all they are left with. I mean hopefully they can squeeze in a low volume full Polaris SKU too, but if they don't, you know where it's going.

I don't think Tonga is in notebooks, I think Tonga is only in the 5k iMac. Also at the same time Nvidia lost the exact % of that marketshare, so Apple wouldn't make sense.

Also all the Mac Book Pro's are older than Tonga (all the ones with a dGPU at least). They are really overdue for a refresh.

It's definitely the r9 380 that's been taking the bulk of the marketshare (and some r9 390s).

 

[3DVagabond]

as someone who doesn't follow AMD, the numbers in their products are just ridiculously confusing and hard to follow. I have no idea which AMD card is faster etc. They should.

Also, The Polaris is being relesead in 3 weeks and yet they wont release any real benchmarks. That's either bad marketing or they know the card is a flop once again.

AMD has X to denote full chip. nVidia "had" ti which used to. Then they started using ti on cut chips too. Whose is more confusing?