Question AMD Phoenix/Zen 4 APU Speculation and Discussion

[uzzi38]

I can finally make this thread.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519669375283957760

Phoenix is indeed RDNA3. My advice to everyone: treat the old APU rumours as being out of date.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Comparison of 780M vs 760M (Notebookcheck.net)

760M showed great results compared to 780M.
780M is a disappointment in comparison, highest difference is only 21% in F1 2021 at Ultra FullHD despite having 50% more CU, Shaders, TMU and 100% ROPs + higher boost.

Either >40W TDP is still not enough for high clocks or DDR5 5600 memory is only good enough for 10CU IGP at best.
Strix Point with 16CU IGP will have the same problem, It will need LPPDR5X 8500 at minimum.

P.S. I commented their article and mentioned this. Maybe they will include clockspeed and Package power draw although I am skeptical.

 

[hemedans]

Comparison of 780M vs 760M (Notebookcheck.net)

View attachment 84286
View attachment 84287
760M showed great results compared to 780M.
780M is a disappointment in comparison, highest difference is only 21% in F1 2021 at Ultra FullHD despite having 50% more CU, Shaders, TMU and 100% ROPs + higher boost.

Either >40W TDP is still not enough for high clocks or DDR5 5600 memory is only good enough for 10CU IGP at best.
Strix Point with 16CU IGP will have the same problem, It will need LPPDR5X 8500 at minimum.

P.S. I commented their article and mentioned this. Maybe they will include clockspeed and Package power draw although I am skeptical.

This look promising for 760M, any information on Ryzen 5 7640U minimum power usage? Can it operate 4-15W like Deck Apu?

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

This look promising for 760M, any information on Ryzen 5 7640U minimum power usage? Can it operate 4-15W like Deck Apu?

15W yes, but not sure about lower TDP. Why would anyone even want to go any lower. You will hurt performance even more.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Let's welcome Lenovo Legion Go. Videocardz and windowsreport

I like the kickstand, trackpad and removable joy-cons. But It looks kinda bulky to me.

edit: there is also a scroll wheel. It's visible on the detached right controller. Very interesting.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Videocardz
Some new renders. Not sure about the cooling system efficiency with only one cooler, although a fatter one. I don't think Lenovo would use only the weaker Ryzen Z1.
Let's hope for 32GB version + 2TB SSD.

Personally, I like this handheld better than the one from Asus, but reviews will tell us more.

 

[Abwx]

GPD mini with a 7640U/7840U APU has a keyboard, a big plus :

GPD Win Mini to launch for US$699 as company reveals full specifications for new compact AMD Phoenix gaming handheld

GPD has now outlined full specifications for the Win Mini, a 7-inch gaming handheld that weighs a mere 520 g. The GPD Win Mini will start at US$699 and will be configurable with up to an AMD Ryzen 7 7840U, 32 GB of LPDDR5 RAM and 2 TB of PCIe 4.0 storage.

www.notebookcheck.net

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

I like more GPD Win 4 than this GPD mini.

edit: @Abwx: It just doesn't look comfortable to hold to me. It's basically a tiny laptop. If I am not blind, then It also has a mini touchpad.

 

[Abwx]

I like more GPD Win 4 than this GPD mini.

That s also cool, but the mini has a 7" screen instead of 6" despite weighing 50g less, wich i admit is neither much nor significant.

 

[Fjodor2001]

What about Zen 4 based desktop APUs? I.e. successor to 5600G/5700G.

I've tried searching online, but there is very little info to be found.

Are there any expected tech specs and approximate release date for them?

 

[jpiniero]

What about Zen 4 based desktop APUs? I.e. successor to 5600G/5700G.

I've tried searching online, but there is very little info to be found.

Are there any expected tech specs and approximate release date for them?

There really isn't a point in DIY now that the CPUs include an IGP. AMD might make IGP busted SKUs out of Rembrandt and Phoenix eventually.

 

[Fjodor2001]

There really isn't a point in DIY now that the CPUs include an IGP. AMD might make IGP busted SKUs out of Rembrandt and Phoenix eventually.

I think AMD Zen 4 based desktop APUs could be desired by people who want a better iGPU and lower idle power consumption compared to the "regular" Zen 4 desktop CPUs (i.e. "Raphael" series).

But are you saying AMD has cancelled any plans for AMD Zen 4 based desktop APUs? I.e. there will not be any Zen 4 based successor to 5600G/5700G?

 

[Joe NYC]

delete

 

[Joe NYC]

I think AMD Zen 4 based desktop APUs could be desired by people who want a better iGPU and lower idle power consumption compared to the "regular" Zen 4 desktop CPUs (i.e. "Raphael" series).

But are you saying AMD has cancelled any plans for AMD Zen 4 based desktop APUs? I.e. there will not be any Zen 4 based successor to 5600G/5700G?

For this purpose, you can get 65W MiniPCs with Phoenix. You can check out some reviews on Serve The Home or Wendell Level 1 of MinisForum and BeeLink MiniPCs.

 

[jpiniero]

But are you saying AMD has cancelled any plans for AMD Zen 4 based desktop APUs? I.e. there will not be any Zen 4 based successor to 5600G/5700G?

As I mentioned, I do think they will release SKUs with the IGP busted. But that might be it.

 

[Fjodor2001]

As I mentioned, I do think they will release SKUs with the IGP busted. But that might be it.

But if the iGPU is busted anyway, what would be the point of it compared to the "regular" Zen 4 desktop CPUs (i.e. "Raphael" series)? Does not sound like a real successor to 5600G/5700G, where the better iGPU was one of the main selling points.

 

[Fjodor2001]

For this purpose, you can get 65W MiniPCs with Phoenix. You can check out some reviews on Serve The Home or Wendell Level 1 of MinisForum and BeeLink MiniPCs.

Thanks for the tip. Could work well for those what want a prebuilt.

For DIY builds it won't work though, so it's not a direct substitute for a 5600G/5700G successor. I was hoping we'd get a Zen4 based desktop APU with AM5 socket, so it would be possible to upgrade to another AM5 based CPU later if the need arises. Also it would be possible to select the PC parts more freely compared to on a prebuilt.

 

[Joe NYC]

Thanks for the tip. Could work well for those what want a prebuilt.

For DIY builds it won't work though, so it's not a direct substitute for a 5600G/5700G successor. I was hoping we'd get a Zen4 based desktop APU with AM5 socket, so it would be possible to upgrade to another AM5 based CPU later if the need arises. Also it would be possible to select the PC parts more freely compared to on a prebuilt.

Keep in mind, the AM5 chips now have an "emergency use" iGPU. Good enough for Windows desktop / work, just not good enough for gaming

 

[jpiniero]

But if the iGPU is busted anyway, what would be the point of it compared to the "regular" Zen 4 desktop CPUs (i.e. "Raphael" series)?

The price. It's salvage after all. But with the 7600 already at $220 there isn't that much room.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Keep in mind, the AM5 chips now have an "emergency use" iGPU. Good enough for Windows desktop / work, just not good enough for gaming

Yes, I know. But as I mentioned previously, there are users who desire a better iGPU than what Zen4 Raphael provides. So a Zen 4 based 5600G/5700G successor would be what they want.

 

[dr1337]

What about Zen 4 based desktop APUs? I.e. successor to 5600G/5700G.

I've tried searching online, but there is very little info to be found.

Are there any expected tech specs and approximate release date for them?

The gap between official consumer releases is quite large, nearly 2 years between the 3400G and the 5700G. And its almost exactly 2 years again so I'd bet on a 7700G in time for the holidays.

Something interesting to me currently is that unlike Renoir/Cezanne, Rembrandt hasn't been put on a desktop socket yet. Seems like the OEMs prefer BGA or maybe there could be something off in production/sales. Puzzling why there isn't an AM5 APU yet because I think even a 6700G would get sales.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Yes, I know. But as I mentioned previously, there are users who desire a better iGPU than what Zen4 Raphael provides. So a Zen 4 based 5600G/5700G successor would be what they want.

Would anyone make a new machine just to get at best a GTX 1650 level of performance from the IGP?
I would rather pay 200euro for a new RX6600 to be honest.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Would anyone make a new machine just to get at best a GTX 1650 level of performance from the IGP?
I would rather pay 200euro for a new RX6600 to be honest.

Because they wanted GTX 1650 level of iGPU performance, and did not have to pay extra for it compared to 5700X. 5700X and 5700G cost approximately the same. The main drawbacks with the 5700G is that it has a little lower CPU performance (but the difference compared to 5700X is very small) and that it has PCIe 3.0 instead of 4.0.

If you instead go for the option to add a discrete RX6600 GPU you're effectively doubling the price. I.e. €200 for 5700G, compared to €200 for 5700X + €200 for RX6600 = €400.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Because they wanted GTX 1650 level of iGPU performance, and did not have to pay extra for it compared to 5700X. 5700X and 5700G cost approximately the same. The main drawbacks with the 5700G is that it has a little lower CPU performance (but the difference compared to 5700X is very small) and that it has PCIe 3.0 instead of 4.0.

If you instead go for the option to add a discrete RX6600 GPU you're effectively doubling the price. I.e. €200 for 5700G, compared to €200 for 5700X + €200 for RX6600 = €400.

Why would anyone make a new PC with only that little GPU performance in 2023? That level of performance I had in my laptop for almost 5 years.

BTW for GTX 1650 level of performance you would have to buy 7700G instead of 5700G and Zen4 based CPUs are a lot more expensive than the previous generation. Let's not forget about costlier AM5 motherboard and DDR5.

So the question is for what will that PC be used for?
If It's for budget gaming then
5700G + A520 board + 16GB 3200MHz DDR4 + RX 6600 would cost 482 euro.
7700(G) + A620 board + 16GB 6000MHz DDR5 would cost 508 euro.
I think the winner is clear.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Why would anyone make a new PC with only that little GPU performance in 2023? That level of performance I had in my laptop for almost 5 years.

BTW for GTX 1650 level of performance you would have to buy 7700G instead of 5700G and Zen4 based CPUs are a lot more expensive than the previous generation. Let's not forget about costlier AM5 motherboard and DDR5.

So the question is for what will that PC be used for?
If It's for budget gaming then
5700G + A520 board + 16GB 3200MHz DDR4 + RX 6600 would cost 482 euro.
7700(G) + A620 board + 16GB 6000MHz DDR5 would cost 508 euro.
I think the winner is clear.

Regarding this:
"5700G + A520 board + 16GB 3200MHz DDR4 + RX 6600 would cost 482 euro."
Why get 5700G instead of 5700X, if you're going to add a discrete GPU anyway?

Anyway, you're assuming everyone wants RX6600 level of GPU performance. But not everyone does. They're happy with the iGPU performance in 5700G and does not want to pay double to add a discrete RX6600 GPU.

Regarding a potential 7700G, who know what it'll cost when/if released. And whether AM5 platform cost will have come down by the time it's released. At some point it'll have to come down, or all lower end AM5 CPUs will be pointless due to systems built using corresponding AM4 CPUs will be more cost efficient. Anyway, AM5 still has the benefit of upgrade option to later Zen generations, and has PCIe 5.0 instead of 4.0. The 5700G/X + RX6600 option lacks that.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Regarding this:
"5700G + A520 board + 16GB 3200MHz DDR4 + RX 6600 would cost 482 euro."
Why get 5700G instead of 5700X, if you're going to add a discrete GPU anyway?

Anyway, you're assuming everyone wants RX6600 level of GPU performance. But not everyone does. They're happy with the iGPU performance in 5700G and does not want to pay double to add a discrete RX6600 GPU.

Regarding a potential 7700G, who know what it'll cost when/if released. And whether AM5 platform cost will have come down by the time it's released. At some point it'll have to come down, or all lower end AM5 CPUs will be pointless due to systems built using corresponding AM4 CPUs will be more cost efficient. Anyway, AM5 still has the benefit of upgrade option to later Zen generations, and has PCIe 5.0 instead of 4.0. The 5700G/X + RX6600 option lacks that.

Discussion was about successor of 5600G/5700G meaning 7600G/7700G(Phoenix). Don't know why you changed that to 5700G, which has a much weaker Vega8 as an IGP. And that IGP is nowhere near GTX 1650's level of performance.