Question AMD Phoenix/Zen 4 APU Speculation and Discussion

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TESKATLIPOKA

Golden Member
May 1, 2020
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Are the new chips that use LPDDR5 using single channel or dual channel? I have seen mixed info. Single channel would be such a waste. Dual channel would serve the iGPU well.
LPDDR5 is soldered so It should be quad channel 4x32-bit or 128-bit in total. DDR5 could be as a single channel 64-bit DDR5 module in a DIMM slot or soldered, but in that case one DIMM slot should be empty. So you still can make a dual channel from It.
 

jams3223

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2023
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Didn't he at least say what was the power limit? 15 or 25W?

I already downloaded Revi OS. I will try It as a virtual machine. Not sure If I want to exchange this for my laptop windows.

Can't say I have a problem with my system. It's just an older 4C8T Intel + GTX 1650 but I have 24GB RAM installed and 2x SSD not in raid. I already use ThrottleStop.

In my next system, I would like to have 64GB RAM. Soldered memory is pretty much impossible for that, so only a laptop with 2 SO-DIM slots.
Nope he didn't, i used to use ThrottleStop but i replaced it with UXTU last year, it's more simple and only shows you the options that are available for your CPU, so less things are taking space in your screen.

I am planning to get a laptop with 32 GB of RAM, because i usually buy laptop every 8 years and it's time for me to get a new one.
 

jams3223

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2023
6
4
36
Are the new chips that use LPDDR5 using single channel or dual channel? I have seen mixed info. Single channel would be such a waste. Dual channel would serve the iGPU well.



Make sure you hold your breath for that.

Unless you mean chromebooks and such. Even that is questionable due to the lawsuit. ARM will never take over the desktop unless it can offer superior perf/watt at similar/lower prices with the expansion capability of a modern x86 machine. Even then, the chip would have to be fast enough to emulate leading edge x86 chips at full speed to get enthusiasts, gamers, or power users to buy in. Basically impossible. Even for everyone else, Qualcomm’s love for margins means that they will have a very hard time competing with AMD/Intel. Also don’t forget that both AMD and Intel have the full capability to compete. Qualcomm would have a very hard fight on it’s hands against two multibillion dollar backers of x86.

I hope Microsoft ports Windows to RISC-V and builds an x86-64 emulator for it. As you can build a RISC-V chip royalty free (there are even open source implementations), RISC-V has much more promise.

Don’t get me wrong, a third competitor would be great, but Qualcomm is too scummy of a company to be that third competitor. There is a reason they have a near monopoly in the mobile/ARM space. Go look up their history.

Okay, I am done preaching now.
A hybrid design CPU that merges ARM, RISC-V modules with x86 on a small node is the future. The only reason x86 can't reach it's full potential is due to windows not being optimized for these chips. Since AMD are aiming for an hybrid design they will beat the competition in portable laptop with their SoCs.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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A hybrid design CPU that merges ARM, RISC-V modules with x86 on a small node is the future. The only reason x86 can't reach it's full potential is due to windows not being optimized for these chips. Since AMD are aiming for an hybrid design they will beat the competition in portable laptop with their SoCs.
Yep.


Assuming we will get the Software out of Mental Asylums, which this mish-mash of architectures will put software into, in the first place.
 
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Exist50

Golden Member
Aug 18, 2016
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Are the new chips that use LPDDR5 using single channel or dual channel? I have seen mixed info. Single channel would be such a waste. Dual channel would serve the iGPU well.
Probably 4x32b channels.
Unless you mean chromebooks and such. Even that is questionable due to the lawsuit.
Qualcomm's chips seem like a better fit for premium laptops and tablets than Chromebooks. AMD and Intel can't have such an efficiency and battery life gap indefinitely.
 

Exist50

Golden Member
Aug 18, 2016
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There was some discussion about CAMM and LPDDR support in an upgradable module. Just for anyone looking for confirmation, more info is trickling out as the spec makes its way through JEDEC. The v0.5 draft was just unanimously approved. https://www.pcworld.com/article/1473126/camm-the-future-of-laptop-memory-has-arrived.html
Schnell did lay out some possible paths for CAMM as it replaces SO-DIMM. DDR6 is an obvious road, he said, but CAMM even enables the possibility of LPDDR6 on a replaceable module. LPDDR, or low-power DDR RAM, has long been preferred for smaller and thinner laptops as well as phones for power savings. It’s also long been implemented only as soldered-on.

Schnell foresees a version of CAMM enabling the performance and power benefits of LPDDR, but in a replaceable and upgradeable module. With JEDEC adopting CAMM now, that future gets closer.
Though I think LPDDR5 support is also in the cards. Either way, looking like Strix Point would be a likely intercept for AMD. Would be really nice to get the benefits of LPDDR speeds in an upgradable module.
 

TESKATLIPOKA

Golden Member
May 1, 2020
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....
Though I think LPDDR5 support is also in the cards. Either way, looking like Strix Point would be a likely intercept for AMD. Would be really nice to get the benefits of LPDDR speeds in an upgradable module.
I think It's too soon for CAMM to be used with Strix Point, unless Strix is not planned for CES 2024 but later.
 

Exist50

Golden Member
Aug 18, 2016
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I think It's too soon for CAMM to be used with Strix Point, unless Strix is not planned for CES 2024 but later.
I don't think CAMM requires any silicon changes. The only question is whether it's solidified enough for OEMs to start designing around. Given how smoothly the process has gone so far, the major details have probably been finalized, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some designs around mid-2024 or so. By 2025, it'll probably be mainstream.
 
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Thibsie

Senior member
Apr 25, 2017
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IMO this is the kind of solution which cures has many problems it itself introduces.

Apart from a Dell patent appetite, I see NO point in this.
 

Exist50

Golden Member
Aug 18, 2016
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IMO this is the kind of solution which cures has many problems it itself introduces.

Apart from a Dell patent appetite, I see NO point in this.
Huh? It allows much faster speeds and thinner form factors compared to SO-DIMM, and it even enables LPDDR support in replaceable modules. How are those not compelling features?
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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Huh? It allows much faster speeds and thinner form factors compared to SO-DIMM, and it even enables LPDDR support in replaceable modules. How are those not compelling features?
Compared to SO-DIMM - the installation will be much more difficult.

The good news is: compared to soldered RAM, Installation will be much easier.

:p
 

RnR_au

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
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I just had a thought... why couldn't CAMM modules be used on standard PC motherboards? We are already installing M2 drives on the back of the motherboard. There is good space on the back for a CAMM module as well. Could it reduce board complexity?
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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I just had a thought... why couldn't CAMM modules be used on standard PC motherboards? We are already installing M2 drives on the back of the motherboard. There is good space on the back for a CAMM module as well. Could it reduce board complexity?
That is the reality we face, especially when Mobile parts will become "desktops".
 

guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
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Huh? It allows much faster speeds and thinner form factors compared to SO-DIMM, and it even enables LPDDR support in replaceable modules. How are those not compelling features?
It talks about the "possibility" of LPDDR6, so maybe a few years down the road we will see it.

I don't see it being that critical because I don't really have an issue with soldered RAM in a laptop.
 
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moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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why couldn't CAMM modules be used on standard PC motherboards?
Eventually there likely will be some such solutions. But the main point of CAMM is allowing LPDDR as modules. LPDDR is for lower power usage which is barely a topic on desktops.
 

guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
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Eventually there likely will be some such solutions. But the main point of CAMM is allowing LPDDR as modules. LPDDR is for lower power usage which is barely a topic on desktops.
Actually the main point is z-axis space savings in laptops. LPDDR is future "possibility".
 

Exist50

Golden Member
Aug 18, 2016
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I just had a thought... why couldn't CAMM modules be used on standard PC motherboards? We are already installing M2 drives on the back of the motherboard. There is good space on the back for a CAMM module as well. Could it reduce board complexity?
Forget form factor or board complexity. LPDDR is significantly faster than DDR. Today, the highest end DDR5 kits are just touching what LPDDR5/X can do in a phone or tablet. From a pure performance standpoint, it would be highly beneficial for every consumer device to move to LPDDR-only, and with CAMM, there's very little reason not to.
Actually the main point is z-axis space savings in laptops. LPDDR is future "possibility".
Nah, don't take that wording from the article as gospel. LPDDR support is an explicit part of the spec that JEDEC is reviewing.
 
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guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
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Nah, don't take that wording from the article as gospel. LPDDR support is an explicit part of the spec that JEDEC is reviewing.
I was looking at the Dell implementation, which saves Z-Axis space but is NOT LPDDR.

So that implies to me, that the main point is the actual thing they implemented, not the thing they didn't.

If LPPDR is the main point, why aren't their implementations using LPDDR?
 

Exist50

Golden Member
Aug 18, 2016
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I was looking at the Dell implementation, which saves Z-Axis space but is NOT LPDDR.

So that implies to me, that the main point is the actual thing they implemented, not the thing they didn't.
Oh, then don't worry. Last I heard, there were like 4-ish form factors as part of the draft spec, including one specifically for LPDDR. Think Dell's is the largest. Hopefully someone publishes more details soon.
 

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