AMD "Never Settle" 12.11 Driver - benchmarks are in!

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StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
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Once again a nvidia troll completely disregards the performance and AMAZING value that AMD is offering and focuses on the only negative thing about AMD they can. The value of their stock.

While it bothers me that AMD as a whole isn't doing well from a business standpoint. They are completely destroying Nvidia's GPU's when it comes to performance and value at this point in time.

I myself would wager that AMD trades the developers their knowledge of their GPU's to the developers of these gaming evolved titles for a set amount of game licenses. It's not really a step backward for AMD. It's showing devotion to their Gaming Evolved program that all gamers should take notice of.

You should see people who refuses to buy AMD because of "poor drivers" as if this is still 2001. Hard to win when you have a customer base this dumb, bonus points for being proud to be gouged by NV like a pig. Don't bring in the multi-GPU issues either when 99.9% won't be using it to begin with.
 

hyrule4927

Senior member
Feb 9, 2012
359
1
76
I've owned ATI cards, though never an AMD card. Guys like me would rather work for a cure via Folding@Home than try to turn a buck. Work that is priceless to those in need.

I run folding 24/7 on an AMD card. Saving money and contributing to science. :biggrin:

Edit: Dare I ask, how much folding have you been doing lately?
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,475
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Why is it that Nvida had awful perf/watt with GF100, yet is currently over 35% faster over several DX11 titles, including up to over 100% faster in some titles with tess?

What is the difference here? The 7970 is only slightly faster than the 680 yet it consumes over 100 watts more to do it?

rubbish. you are sounding more and more like a desperate Nvidia fanboi.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/HD_7970_Matrix/24.html

Peak power in Crysis 2

GTX 680 - 186w
ASUS HD 7970 MATRIX PLATINUM - 223w
HD 7970 GHZ - 238w

Thats 37w. the partner versions of HD 7970 Ghz cards are drawing less power than the review samples sent out in late jun. The HD 7970 Ghz cards sent to review sites was just a reference HD 7970 with a Ghz BIOS and qualification done for properly functioning boost functionality.

The current cards like ASUS HD 7970 Ghz MATRIX PLATINUM have proper binning such that the voltages are not excessive to hit advertised speeds.

This ASUS HD 7970 Ghz card is 4% faster than the HD 7970 Ghz
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/HD_7970_Matrix/26.html

HD 7970 Ghz is already 10% faster than GTX 680 at 1600p with the 12.11 beta.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Catalyst_12.11_Performance/23.html

For around 20% more power consumption you get 15% more performance at high resolutions and max settings . Not bad even from perf/watt perspective.

so please stop your rubbish :thumbsdown:
 
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BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
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I'm talking to RS, specifically overclocked power consumption.

Furthermore I never said it was bad, I asked specifically why he felt Fermi was "awful" but the 7970s minor performance advantage at an obtuse resolution is worthy of it's large power consumption difference.
 

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,188
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I'm talking to RS, specifically overclocked power consumption.

Furthermore I never said it was bad, I asked specifically why he felt Fermi was "awful" but the 7970s minor performance advantage at an obtuse resolution is worthy of it's large power consumption difference.

Why don't you overvolt and overclock a gtx680 and give us some power consumption numbers. Oh wait... lolololol
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
12,040
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That's a cop out, why are they loyal to Nvidia - why are more loyal to Nvidia than AMD?

That's a good question (to which I can only guess an answer)...but some people will be loyal to one brand no matter how good competing products are...example, Apple.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
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I am only getting snippets of recent posts via quotes, due to the fact that I ignored Balla already, but apparently the NV fanbois are resorting to the ol' "popularity" argument. Brand X sells more than Brand Y, therefore Brand X "must" be better. Right? Right? By that logic, I guess console gaming is superior to PC gaming, since consoles are collectively much more popular than gaming-grade PCs. And obviously Windows 7 is the best OS since they have such a dominant market share among client PCs. Right? Right? Lmao.

NV cards are not bad. To the contrary, NV cards are quite good. They are just overpriced for enthusiasts. But there are many more non-enthusiasts than there are enthusiasts. This entire forum is a collective outlier. There are many, many, many people who are non-techies. They don't know how to do driver updates so 12.7beta, 12.11, etc. won't ever help them. They use default settings and don't know how to overclock, so GPU Boost helps them. They don't know what VSync even stands for, so A-Vsync might help them. These "hold my hand" people like NV because it is a known, safe quantity. You might not get the best bang for the buck, but if you plug it in, it works. NV does a good job on launch drivers, better marketing, has better brand equity (AMD is a damaged brand and it's stupid to label video cards AMD instead of ATI; AMD has long been known as Intel's whipping boy), better multi-GPU support, PhysX, CUDA and other support (remember how Adobe used to support NV only), and stuff like tri-monitor support without having to fiddle with adapters, A-Vsync, and GPU Boost (rather than AMD's inelegant copycat boost).

Also, two points about consumer behavior in general:

Price is a signal.

Consumers in general rely on generally-accurate heuristics when purchasing things they are unfamiliar with. One of the core heuristics is "you get what you pay for," i.e., people assume that price correlates with quality. Like the other day in the photography forum, someone was saying his novice friend wanted to blow $1k on a camera. There was no discussion of what she needed the camera to DO, or her skill level, or whatever. No discussion of price/perf, or even perf, or if a $300 camera would be good enough for the job. Nope, it was apparently: "I have a problem worth $1k to me and want to spend $1k on solving it."

And let's be honest here, who here is an expert in everything. Nobody. There are some areas in which we know a lot (say, video cards), and some in which we don't. If you are put into a situation where you must buy something without knowing much about it, and don't want to pore over reviews, what are you going to do? You probably take your cue from price, right? Example: Your gf starts her period and for some reason loses consciousness so that you are forced to go into a store and buy tampons. How much do you know about tampons? Probably not a hell of a lot (this forum is what, 99% male with a +/- 3% margin of error?). The store has 3 choices. Do you buy the cheap, medium, or expensive tampon? If you care about your gf at all, you probably buy the medium or expensive tampon regardless of what their relative performance or comfort levels are, correct? It's a rare man who would want to pore over tampon reviews on his smartphone in the store, right? You have a problem, you just want it fixed, and fixed now, even if you lose on price/perf.

Recognition also matters, in part because people tend to be risk-averse. By extension, market share matters. A lot.

People pick what they recognize. NV is more recognized than AMD. Hell, AMD is associated with CPUs, not GPUs. That all by itself matters a LOT. This is the McDonald's problem. You are driving and get hungry in unknown territory. There are three restaurants. One is a McDonald's, another is a company you vaguely recall as maybe having something to do with food but can't remember if it is good food or not, or if they even sell food in the first place, and the third you don't recognize at all. Given those options, many people would opt for the "safe" choice: McDonald's.

NV also has important niche advantages in certain things like CUDA and Folding@Home which are important for some people. NV also has deep and broad driver support, as stated in the other thread about how NV supports its cards via driver updates longer than AMD does.

So you have non-techie people who want to play it safe with their video cards, much like many people would rather eat at a roadside McDonald's in unfamiliar territory rather than risk it and eat at some hole in the wall restaurant that looks like it could be better and/or cheaper but isn't worth the risk of food poisoning (far away from home) to find out. Many of them probably look to price to guide them. And for the slightly less-tech-illiterate, they may have bought NV before and just want something that works, and they've had good experiences with NV in the past, so NV it is.

And then you have people who buy NV cards for niche or compatibility reasons.

It all adds up to sales, sales, sales.

Is it so hard to see how NV does so well?
 
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BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
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I am only getting snippets of recent posts via quotes, due to the fact that I ignored Balla already, but apparently the NV fanbois are resorting to the ol' "popularity" argument. Brand X sells more than Brand Y, therefore Brand X "must" be better. Right? Right? By that logic, I guess console gaming is superior to PC gaming, since consoles are collectively much more popular than gaming-grade PCs. And obviously Windows 7 is the best OS since they have such a dominant market share among client PCs. Right? Right? Lmao.

That wasn't it at all.

I only asked questions, I never put any spin into anything I asked.


They are just overpriced for enthusiasts. better multi-GPU support

You seem to have contradicted yourself.

NV does a good job on launch drivers, better marketing, has better brand equity (AMD is a damaged brand and it's stupid to label video cards AMD instead of ATI; AMD has long been known as Intel's whipping boy), better multi-GPU support, PhysX, CUDA and other support (remember how Adobe used to support NV only), and stuff like tri-monitor support without having to fiddle with adapters, A-Vsync, and GPU Boost (rather than AMD's inelegant copycat boost).

So what are these things worth? Obviously they can't give it away for free. They need to support their work on the software end of things. So it's no wonder AMD continuously has an advantage in price/performance as they have no overhead on the software side. So again if you're RS clearly these things are worthless, however are the NV people who value them, trolls, idiots, tools, fanbois, drones, and every other bad mouth term used towards me in this thread after asking simple non aggressive questions?

Or is it something else?



It's nice to see after almost an entire page someone actually attempted to address the questions I asked, rather than reduce it to name calling.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
I'm talking to RS, specifically overclocked power consumption.

Furthermore I never said it was bad, I asked specifically why he felt Fermi was "awful" but the 7970s minor performance advantage at an obtuse resolution is worthy of it's large power consumption difference.



power_average.gif


Avg. power consumption difference for the 680/7970GE reference = 43w
Avg. power consumption difference for the 680/7970 Matrix = 32w
Avg. power consumption difference for the 480/5870 = 127w

I realize that you want to make it sound like it's similar, but it's really not even close. Imagine now that the 480 was cheaper.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
I'm not paying $450 for mid range performance, if you want to send me one I'll happily mod it to do as you wish. :thumbsup:


You keep saying midrange performance. The GTX680 is obviously Nvidia's highend part. I'm sure behind closed doors they have faster silicon. AMD does as well. But what they have out is what they have out. As RS pointed out berfore, when overclocked the 7970 is ~50% faster than the last gen highend. Honest question, has there been a 'midrange' part that has done that?
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
power_average.gif


Avg. power consumption difference for the 680/7970GE reference = 43w
Avg. power consumption difference for the 680/7970 Matrix = 32w
Avg. power consumption difference for the 480/5870 = 127w

I realize that you want to make it sound like it's similar, but it's really not even close. Imagine now that the 480 was cheaper.

This has nothing to do with what I said.

You keep saying midrange performance. The GTX680 is obviously Nvidia's highend part. I'm sure behind closed doors they have faster silicon. AMD does as well. But what they have out is what they have out. As RS pointed out berfore, when overclocked the 7970 is ~50% faster than the last gen highend. Honest question, has there been a 'midrange' part that has done that?

It's obviously their mid-range die. Doesn't really matter does it? They'll have a higher in cards getting cooked up when they release the next fastest card. To you perhaps, to others perhaps not... There is no absolution here other than GK104 is a derivative of Nvidia's mid-range design.

7970 isn't a mid-range design for AMD, I don't believe I ever said it was.
 
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SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,066
418
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You keep saying midrange performance. The GTX680 is obviously Nvidia's highend part. I'm sure behind closed doors they have faster silicon. AMD does as well. But what they have out is what they have out. As RS pointed out berfore, when overclocked the 7970 is ~50% faster than the last gen highend. Honest question, has there been a 'midrange' part that has done that?

6600GT?

but I agree, HD79K and GTX 670/80 are high end parts, there is nothing really faster or more expensive (single GPU)
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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This has nothing to do with what I said.

"I asked specifically why he felt Fermi was "awful" but the 7970s minor performance advantage at an obtuse resolution is worthy of it's large power consumption difference."

This is your quote. Fermi drew 127w more, that's a large power consumption difference not 30w or 40w that the 7970GE cards use.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
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6600GT?

but I agree, HD79K and GTX 670/80 are high end parts, there is nothing really faster or more expensive (single GPU)


You're probably right, the 6600GT was much better than the previous gen. But, I think that had a lot to do with how bad the 58xx/59xx cards were. Its been a while, I don't remember how the 6600GT did against a Radeon 9800XT, though. Not sure how much faster it was, but I don't think it was 50% (may be wrong on that), and I'm too tired to search right now. :)
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,066
418
126
You're probably right, the 6600GT was much better than the previous gen. But, I think that had a lot to do with how bad the 58xx/59xx cards were. Its been a while, I don't remember how the 6600GT did against a Radeon 9800XT, though. Not sure how much faster it was, but I don't think it was 50% (may be wrong on that), and I'm too tired to search right now. :)

in some games it was much faster :)

4403.png


in others it was just a little bit faster,
http://www.anandtech.com/show/1464/10

but back in the day Doom 3 was the most important benchmark I think.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
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Cool, thanks for the link... but there is one difference, the 6600GT had much faster parts yet above it. That's not the case in this round (as you pointed out).

Looking at that graph makes me feel a weird nostalgic feeling... haha. I'll forever miss my AMD 3000+ @ 2.6GHz and Opteron 260 @ 2.7GHz that replaced it... good times! :)
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
"I asked specifically why he felt Fermi was "awful" but the 7970s minor performance advantage at an obtuse resolution is worthy of it's large power consumption difference."

This is your quote. Fermi drew 127w more, that's a large power consumption difference not 30w or 40w that the 7970GE cards use.

I was talking to RS, specifically the 360w draw of the Gigabyte SOC vs the 460w draw of the Matrix both were at 1300Mhz in recent aftermarket card reviews.

The 7970 does not enjoy the same benefits of that additional power that Fermi did, even with AMD disabling tessellation in Crysis 2 the overall gap in several DX11 titles is around 36% faster, the 7970 is less than half that number faster.

So my question was, why was Fermi so bad in his eyes, yet the 7970 is good. I didn't say the 7970 was bad, I simply asked why he made that statement.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
I was talking to RS, specifically the 360w draw of the Gigabyte SOC vs the 460w draw of the Matrix both were at 1300Mhz in recent aftermarket card reviews.

The 7970 does not enjoy the same benefits of that additional power that Fermi did, even with AMD disabling tessellation in Crysis 2 the overall gap in several DX11 titles is around 36% faster, the 7970 is less than half that number faster.

So my question was, why was Fermi so bad in his eyes, yet the 7970 is good. I didn't say the 7970 was bad, I simply asked why he made that statement.

See, you want to cherry pick the situation. If you add voltage and O/C and limit it to a couple of games... Or your 2 benchmarks where the 7870 didn't beat the 680 in compute means that the 7870 is just as crippled as the 680. Even though I presented an entire suite of benches that the 7870 beat (sometimes by more than your cherry picked 480 example) the 680 in 14 of 17 benchmarks. People care about the big picture.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
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You should see people who refuses to buy AMD because of "poor drivers" as if this is still 2001. Hard to win when you have a customer base this dumb, bonus points for being proud to be gouged by NV like a pig. Don't bring in the multi-GPU issues either when 99.9% won't be using it to begin with.

Multi-GPU performance doesn't just affect SLI and crossfire users, it establishes a reputation for the GPU maker as being proficient in high end gaming hardware and driver support. If someone in the market for a new card asks people on a forum "who's cards are better?" they will take note of how many things one card maker does thats better than the other, regardless of wether or not they plan on going multi-gpu right now. They might want the option later, and they may figure, "if they are better at multi-gpu, maybe they are better at other stuff as well. It all adds up to reputation.
They hear high end PC builders mention that Nvidia has better multi-gpu support, better 3D etc, that might be enough to sway their decision even if they won't use those features.
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
I know exactly what he is talking about, and so do you.

No actually I don't have a clue. My question was for RS, why do I need to explain it to someone who doesn't understand where I'm coming from and wasn't meant to understand it anyways?

I have no clue why the 7870 is being discussed or what his reference is for anything he's saying. I'm totally lost it came out of left field.