AMD "Never Settle" 12.11 Driver - benchmarks are in!

Page 10 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
1
71
I also see it fixes the flickering in Project CARS in crossfire. Good to see since I don't get any performance improvement, bug fixes are nice.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,170
2,830
126
You've been having those too? I thought it was just something else with my PC. They have been happening so infrequently i figured my ram was dying or something. Gonna download these and see if it happens again.

If you looked at the crash report it would always be related to atiumd64.dll.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
I have strange feelings about this. The driver and game packages are fantastic, no question about that. What bothers me is that AMD has the motivation of a drowning man trying to save himself, and it shows with this excellent move of theirs. It is a special move. It's rare. It's unsustainable.

It's the 4th quarter. It's the most important quarter in retail. The market is down (The entire PC market). AMD's one ace up their sleeve is the discrete GPU segment which they are very competitive in (arguably the best). They are promoting it to the max. It's not a sign of desperation. It's good marketing. You know, that segment of the business they typically suck at. Improved dev relations. Getting the games into people's hands (and likely reviewer's hands) that their cards perform well in.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
I am stating it as a concern because it seems clear to me that this move is very aggressive, over the top and very out of the ordinary. Does this move by AMD not seem out of the ordinary and coincidentally parallel the trouble they are having?

I don't work for AMD, I don't know if this move is expected to make them more $ or not and I just don't care as a consumer. I look at what AMD offers now and what NV offers and I seriously cannot recommend a single NV GPU at the moment unless it's related to some specific dual-link DVI monitor setups or a person has to have 3D Vision or PhysX or needs to run Tri-SLI in which case I won't recommend Tri-fire as AMD's reference 7970 isn't quiet enough for me to recommend such a setup.

:D I don't think it's a secret AMD and the entire PC gaming community knows AMD has to deliver MORE at the same price to sell GPUs right now. 5 years of competing on price/performance hasn't helped AMD's brand image in GPUs. More performance, more overclocking, more games, is needed to attract gamers who have been served by NV for 5-10 years. You can call it desperate, I call it the reality of where AMD is after half a decade of mismanaging the GPU division. This is why in business, it's very difficult to get consumers to switch after they are used to a certain brand. Even back in the days, ATI had a similar problem when people purchased GeForce 5 - the worst NV series ever! I mean it was like throwing $ into the toilet but hey millions of people did buy FX5900. :sneaky:

Let's say you have used Tide laundry detergent and Colgate or Crest toothpaste for 5-10 years and it worked well for you. Let's say you were happy using those products and paying the premiums over other products since they didn't give you problems and provided you with the satisfaction and peace of mind you expected out of them. Other companies are going to need to either significantly undercut Tide or Crest or they would need to offer superior products at the same price to get you to consider switching or the companies making Tide or Colgate/Crest would need to mess up their quality or raise prices beyond what you are willing to pay.

Ironically, Tide is a budget brand in Russia and Ariel is the premium Procter & Gamble brand in Procter & Gamble's European, Mexican, Japanese, Brazilian, Peruvian, Turkish, Filipino, Colombian, Chilean and Venezuelan portfolios. It's just pure marketing!! If NV marketed their brand as more premium, that shows their marketing team was more successful but with GPUs, you can clearly measure performance, overclocking and price/performance and GTX600 is losing in all of those. Does that mean NV customers will consider switching? Some may, others won't. Others might need AMD cards to be 2x faster or cost 50% less to consider switching. This is why consumer switching costs are so expensive for any company and gaining new consumers costs a LOT more $ than retaining current ones.

This same premium brand value (or lack thereof) problem faced Audi for a decade and look where they are now in global sales compared to BMW and Mercedes. Audi had to offer MORE over their competitors to increase sales. Initially Audi undercut Benz and BMW and over time as their brand value improved due to modern styling, interior design, etc., they started to raise prices in the US. It's not a coincidence that Audi created world class interiors, pushed Quattro all-wheel drive as a key competitive advantage and all of these things weren't "desperate" but it was planned. Audi's management took Audi brand more upscale in the US but it still trails to BMW and Benz in prestige in some people's eyes, despite Audi viewed as more premium in many Eastern European countries compared to BMW even. If your brand is perceived as inferior, you have to offer superior features for a long time before consumers take notice. That's just the name of the game and the same brands can be perceived differently in different countries.

AMD already tried offering more value with HD4000-6000 series and obviously that didn't work. You can call this desperate by AMD, I view it as NV having very sticky customers due to years and years of superior developer relations, marketing and superior drivers for those who started 10 years ago even during Radeon 8500 days. Having the performance crown since 8800GTX only helped to reinforce NV's premium brand image. AMD knows it won't get the loyal NV customers to switch immediately but what do you expect AMD to do? Just give up?

HD7000 series now offers better value, more performance, more overclocking and free games at every price level under $600 on the desktop. It's the best line-up AMD has had ever I would say. Even X800 series, X850Pro was not better than 6800GT but 7970 is faster than GTX670. On paper, AMD has a better card at every price now besides GTX690.

People don't like car analogies, but this situation is not much different than what Honda and Toyota enjoy over their competitors. The current Corolla, Camry, and Civics are not really better cars than their competitors and yet sell very well. Sometimes, the customers are so sticky, even if you offer the best of the best they still won't switch due to brand loyalty and negative perception associated with other brands. The stigma of unreliable American cars still carries to this day and it definitely forces US automakers to constantly improve quality so that the perception catches up to reality. It won't happen overnight.

What never ceases to amaze me is how brand loyal NV users are supporting their team but if you ask around most people who buy AMD cards why they did so, a lot of them aren't doing it for "team AMD" but because of what AMD cards are offering - enthusiast overclocking features, better price/performance, more value. No questions asked, GTX670/680 shined from March to early June but what about from June to now? If NV offered those things regularly, I'd buy or recommend their cards in a heartbeat but I won't pay $50-100 more for NV brand name and better drivers brainwashing or 1-2 games a year with PhysX! NV doesn't seem to care, and they wouldn't if they can continue pocketing more $ selling cards, why would they lower prices?

Even on this forum people still didn't buy AMD cards when bitcoin mining made them free (or very discounted). Look at Newegg reviews. When an AMD card has issues, the user swears to never buy an AMD card again. When EVGA GTX670 cards are RROD/BSODing and black screening all over the place, NV users would rather switch to another NV AIB, than to leave NV even after a particular NV card has given them an awful experience. That just shows you the extreme level of attachment consumers develop to a brand and NV has mastered this a lot better than AMD has.
 
Last edited:

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
I agree.


Have you actually read my posts?

I said that I think those improvements ARE worth it to me and ARE pretty nifty.

What I took ubrage at was the reducto ad absurdum and strawman fallacy used to attack those who make a perfectly legitimate complaint. A complaint I do not share with them. Nor do I insist on the "facts" they provided being true.

Whether it takes 14w or is totally free is IRRELEVANT to everything I said because all I said was that a specific argument is unfair and made up of fallacies.
The argument in question, the one getting all those pluses from people did NOT claim that certain "facts" were false data aka "no it does not take 14w extra, that claim is false".
It instead dismissed (using both a strawman and a reducto ad absurdum fallacies) complaining about it as unacceptable.
Effectively saying "I accept your claim that it takes 14w extra, and the fact you complain about it makes you a fanboy"

I don't see why pointing that this is what it did should make the me the target of so much hate and such attacks (EDIT: Not from you particularly; but the sum of the replied I have received). As well as continuing strawman attributing to me nonsense that I never said and is in fact the exact opposite of my own statements and opinions.

Here's a good one, Free beer and pizza isn't really free because you'll flush your toilet more. :p
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,709
316
126
Do you do anything but troll? You have't added a single iota to the overall discussion. You're literally just trying to post stuff to get people arguing with each other.

Not only that you do in a smug "holier than thou" attitude like your superior to the people around here. Get over yourself.

LOL.

How so?
 

PCboy

Senior member
Jul 9, 2001
847
0
0
Here's a good one, Free beer and pizza isn't really free because you'll flush your toilet more. :p

It's even funnier when you add the fact that the money that they save from using less power is easily overwritten by the premium they paid for their GTX680.

There is no Nvidia offering that can beat the price/performance of the 7970. Let alone a 340 dollar 7970. Nothing.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
I call complete BS on this one. Prior to this year, Nvidia completely dominated the developer support system and they have never had a bundle this large or relevant insofar as release dates surrounding the games. There is definitely money exchanging hands - probably $15 or so per key for the unreleased games, and maybe $7-10 for sleeping dogs. A $15 price cut on a $450 video card doesn't make much of a big difference, but when including a brand new game (let alone two) that won't be available for less than $45-50 for two months or so creates a huge perceived value and it's better on the bottom dollar than dropping the price of the card by $40-50. No publisher is going to hand over 50,000 game keys without monetary compensation in return. If I'm wrong prove it.

I always love when someone says to prove that they are wrong. You are the one who is coming up with the prices that AMD pays. I'm simply stating that you (or I) have no idea. You're saying $50. You're saying 50,000 game keys. You prove either of those numbers.

Deals like this are done because the perceived value is higher than the actual cost. If AMD knocked $50 off of each GPU the savings to the customer would be far greater than the value of this bundle. Keep in mind that's $50 per GPU, since that is all AMD is selling the AIB's. I call BS on this, because it just doesn't make economical sense.
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
1
0
@Russian, it is very significant the point you raised: Not in recent history had ATI/AMD offered not just superior value but outright superior performance.

I would say the release of the 5XXX series offered superior value and superior performance for some time compared to their competition as well. Pretty recent. Offering superior dual GPU, superior Single GPU and strong price/performance! Did bring SSAA support and EyeFinity to improve quality, immersion and gaming experience potential.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
I would say the release of the 5XXX series offered superior value and superior performance for some time compared to their competition as well. Pretty recent. Offering superior dual GPU, superior Single GPU and strong price/performance! Did bring SSAA support and EyeFinity to improve quality, immersion and gaming experience potential.

Ok but HD5000 series only lead from price/performance side by virtue of NV being late by 6 months. Once GTX460/GTX470/480 launched, NV had the DX11 performance, overclocking and VRAM equation completely covered and GTX460 offered excellent overclocking and price/performance. If you compare HD5000 vs. GTX400 series, once NV got drivers under control, GTX470/480 are faster cards with more overclocking headroom than HD5850/5870 were.

Now look at GTX600 series -- it is nothing like Fermi was. NV charges more for VRAM, NV locked voltage control, 600 series overclocks worse on air or water, performance is worse in most DX11 games, especially DX11 games released in 2012, and with these drivers+game bundles, the price/performance that already favoured AMD cards for a while has put NV deep into overpriced camp. That's a far cry from March 2012 days when NV started with a bang with GTX670/680 launch by undercutting and outperforming 7950/7970 cards. Don't forget GTX670 was $399 when HD7950 was pushing $450-500 and GTX680 was $500 when HD7970s were pushing $550-580. Maybe NV didn't get the memo that a generation lasts 12-15 months not 3-4 months.

GTX660Ti is a total flop compared to how awesome 8800GT/GTX460 were. NV has neither the price/performance overclocking champ (7850/7950 took those honors this gen) neither the performance champ (7970 GE > GTX680 and Matrix HD7970 > GTX680 Lightning). While GTX690 is a marvel of engineering, like HD5970, it is undermined by proper amount of VRAM - 2GB of VRAM which is disappointing for a $1K GPU. This hurts it badly as Xbitlabs has GTX690 SLI it beating HD7970 GE CF by just 10% at Triple Monitor gaming. That's shockingly bad considering the former setup costs $1100 more.

Desktop HD7000 series right now has the most impressive top-to-bottom line-up from ATI or AMD ever, unless we talk about FX5800/5000 series which was basically unusable in DX9 games. There are really no gaps in AMD's GPU desktop line now. I suppose they need some card between $285 and $388 and having a card dead on at $139-149 would be nice. NV has nothing to fill $150 level unless they drop GTX660 in there but GTX670 could become a sweet bang for the buck closer to $320.

I've never had a situation where I couldn't recommend a single NV card worth buying under $600. Every generation, NV always had something I could recommend, whether it was 8800GT, GTX460, GTX560/Ti. There is no such card from NV right now. GTX670 was awesome but without price drops it stopped being relevant a long time ago, other than occasional $330-340 sales and when BL2 bundle was in effect. GTX670 is such a great card and NV could completely neutralize HD7950 and HD7970 if they dropped after-market GTX670 at $300-320 but for $370-400, it doesn't look so hot to put it mildly. $400 for a Gigabyte GTX670 when HD7950 is $285 and HD7970 1Ghz is $388.

Even Tom's Hardware October 2012 Best GPUs for the $ article this week had almost no NV cards worth recommending and that article was done before these game bundles or new drivers. Best card for $400 went to HD7970 not GTX670. Add these new game bundles and driver improvements and GTX670 is toast without price drops. Unless NV drops prices, November 2012 article will probably not have a single NV card on that list other than GTX690 since AMD doesn't make an official HD7990, which gives NV a win by default. Keep in mind, I am discussing this purely from a price/performance, performance and value perspectives. I am not saying that come next month NV will lose market share as we've seen year after year NV not lose market share despite AMD offering more performance or more value. So I am not insinuating how any of this will translate to sales in the real world since NV's loyal customer base has a mind of its own. 2-3 more PhysX games and they could start a parade next month! ;)

---

Browsing through some driver reviews, AMD made a huge jump in Wargame: EU as well. Another DX11 game where NV was winning.

12-11-DRIVERS-78.jpg

12-11-DRIVERS-79.jpg


75% performance increase in the last graph. Wow! :eek:
 
Last edited:

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
RS you keep saying the same thing but the market continues to go the other way - something has to give, clearly AMD wasn't doing as well as you seemed to believe they were - hence the bundles.

I'm just saying maybe it's time for you to step back and look at a bigger picture, AMD isn't pushing forward they're going backward these bundles and prices are designed to curb that decline not further an advancement that isn't actually taking place.

So what else is there you aren't talking about that seems to carry Nvidia through even when their price/perf isn't as good?
 
Last edited:

Bryf50

Golden Member
Nov 11, 2006
1,429
51
91
For this longest time windowed mode and crossfire didn't mix while gaming. I need someone else to confirm this but I'm getting different results with this driver. Previously in WoW while running fullscreen windowed mode one would remain downclocked and unused but now I'm clearly getting usage on both cards. GW2 on the other-hand is unchanged and still doesn't work with crossfire while in windowed mode. My first thought is that it had to do with WoW running with dx11 code path while GW2 is still running dx9. BTW I'm also running Windows 8.
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
So, 12.11 apparently fixed the weird slowdown I was having in 3DMark11 at my card's factory 1010/1210 clock and I haven't experienced any slowdown in Dragon Age II yet, but I'm still getting noticeable artifacting in several games, most noticeably Skyrim, even just at at the factory and standard 7870 clock speeds. :(
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
RS you keep saying the same thing but the market continues to go the other way - something has to give, clearly AMD wasn't doing as well as you seemed to believe they were - hence the bundles.

I'm just saying maybe it's time for you to step back and look at a bigger picture, AMD isn't pushing forward they're going backward these bundles and prices are designed to curb that decline not further an advancement that isn't actually taking place.

So what else is there you aren't talking about that seems to carry Nvidia through even when their price/perf isn't as good?

Balla, please understand that AMD is not just a desktop GPU company. Their financials are a much larger picture. Their financial situation is not directly linked to their GPU division.

Yes, you reduce prices to sell more. It doesn't mean that they aren't selling though. The holiday season is coming. It is the time for promotions. What are they going to promote, CPU's? APU's? Those are mostly sold to OEM's, not you and I. Thus the big consumer promotion of GPU's. As far as declines go, the entire PC market declined. AMD's position is one where they can afford it the least.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
RS you keep saying the same thing but the market continues to go the other way - something has to give, clearly AMD wasn't doing as well as you seemed to believe they were - hence the bundles.

Again, last quarter AMD gained discrete GPU market share. I didn't make those numbers up. I never expected AMD to outsell NV overall knowing the lovefest for PhysX, FXAA and NV's drivers and considering AMD failed to do that with HD4000-6000 series despite offering better value and unlocking features with 6950. You can say AMD is desperate to give away GPUs with 3 free games, I look at it as NV is out of its mind if they think I am going to pay $400 for their GTX670 that can't make $ on the side, has less VRAM for mods, has worse overclocking, has worse performance, worse MSAA performance. But hey, if millions of NV's customers want to buy products for premiums, while getting less enthusiast features, more power to NV for fostering a culture that's so brand name attached. Many companies would die to have such a loyal following. You have to give it to JHH for mastering the art of marketing.

No wonder JHH loves Apple products since he knows Apple has also mastered the art of marketing and price premiums and I am sure JHH has studied this business model. It's no wonder NV is very reluctant to ever drop prices unless absolutely necessary. GTX580 was $430 even when HD7950 launched at $449.

He brags, “Apple uses the best technology for their [computers]. Apple says to their customers: if you buy a computer from us you can be sure we have selected the best technology inside for you. That is their promise to consumers. Their promise to consumers isn’t we’ve selected the best technology for you with the exception of what Intel allows us to use. That’s not their promise. And that’s why Apple uses the best technology where they want whenever they want. And that’s why I’m all Apple! At home it’s just Macs everywhere. It’s NVIDIA’s technology in all of them but I use Macs. My son has two Macs, my daughter has a Mac, there’s an extra Mac just in case and my wife has a Mac. It’s just Mac, Mac, Mac! Because I know it’s got the best stuff inside.”

Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/comput...ms-his-love-of-apple-computers/#ixzz2A5f0iyXT
http://www.digitaltrends.com/comput...as-ceo-proclaims-his-love-of-apple-computers/

NV uses the exact same strategy - it uses marketing to convince its consumers it always has the best products even when it doesn't! NV even said 80% of their consumers don't know or don't bother adjusting in-game settings. You expect these people to read reviews of new drivers from AMD that put AMD on the top? No way! They are convinced now that "Kepl3r" is freaken awesome dude! The majority of customers are influenced by marketing and no amount of overclocking, MSAA performance, benchmarks or game bundles will sway them if they believe NV is a premium brand and AMD is a budget brand. Even someone like you who wouldn't stop talking about GTX470 overclocking hasn't said much about HD7950 overclocking 50% on air. That's better than your GTX470 can do. Sorry, but when HD7950 for $285 lays the smack down on a $450-500 GTX680 once overclocked to 1200mhz, that's tremendous value and even you didn't own up to this. You continue to criticize this generation as overpriced but AMD has offered FAR FAR more of the things you are looking for like value and overclocking. You should have been furious when NV banned voltage control. Were you? Have you criticized NV for not dropping prices once since launch? You just keep saying how this generation has failed you in price/performance, but keep evading the key things NV no longer offers right now - price/performance, overclocking or DX11 performance. Something you wouldn't' stop talking about regarding your 470s.

I'm just saying maybe it's time for you to step back and look at a bigger picture, AMD isn't pushing forward they're going backward these bundles and prices are designed to curb that decline not further an advancement that isn't actually taking place.

I already told you many times, NV like many other companies can sell its products at a premium, even if they are worse. Fermi's awful performance/watt and 6 months being late was forgiven. What else? Oh ya, NV didn't suffer much despite its sub-$300 Kepler line being 6-8 months late because its customers either bought GTX560/570/580 instead of HD7770/HD7850/7870 or waited patiently for 6-8 months for GTX650/650Ti/660/660Ti (gasp, waiting for 6-8 months to give NV money). GTX550Ti selling well on Amazon, FX5200 one of the best selling cards of all time for NV? Want more evidence? $250 HD6950 unlocked x 2 ~ GTX580 for $500, HD5850 for $269 taking GTX285 to the cleaners for 6 months, HD4870 for $299 vs. $399 GTX260 and AMD barely made a dent. How about you downplaying that AMD is offering more value and performance and overclocking this generation? You view it as a sign of desperation, I view it as how brain-washed NV consumers are that they can't see value and performance if it hit them in the face (unless NV delivers the value or performance or both). Notice how some people on this forum can't adjust their recommendations as the market trends change, as prices change, as performance changes?

You can start linking Steam survey all you want. If NV can sell less for more $, as a company they are more successful but it also says a lot about their primary customer base and how much marketing influence NV has over them. Steve Jobs would be proud for sure of what JHH has accomplished.

I bet if we did a little experiment and put 100 loyal NV gamers into a room & told them we have NV's next generation GTX780 being beta-tested, but instead we put HD7970 GE in Cross-fire in its place, if they gamed on this setup at 2560x1600 in today's most GPU intensive games, they'd cream their pants and have their $$$ ready for pre-orders that day for the awesome GTX780 card!!

So what else is there you aren't talking about that seems to carry Nvidia through even when their price/perf isn't as good?

Again, I am not saying AMD will outsell NV next quarter. For example, you wouldn't buy AMD cards even if they were free (bitcoin mining) or cost less and offered more overclocking (HD7950 over GTX660Ti). I told you how to get AMD cards for free earlier in the year and you didn't listen. As a result you are stuck with outdated GTX470s and next generation you have to pay $ out of your own pocket for more performance. So really, AMD could be throwing HD7970s off a truck and NV users like you would sell them in 1 hour on EBay and still buy an NV card. You already know this. Not need to state rhetorical questions.

Ford could put a 252 horsepower engine into a Ford Focus, and make it the most fun car to drive in the segment, offer more utility/passenger space and Honda Civic would still outsell it. What's your point that Honda makes more exciting enthusiast cars than Ford does?

Even when NV sold the GeForce 5, they didn't have much trouble despite their awful anisotropic filtering, MSAA, DX9, FP16 texture and shader performance. What's your point that NV can get away with selling worse overclocking, worse performing, more expensive GPUs? Yes, we know that already. Apparently some people on this very forum still believe HD7970 GE is a mythical card that doesn't exist, and that NV didn't lose the single-GPU performance crown or that voltage locking on NV cards is not a negative development for enthusiast overclockers. :D

HD7850 is faster than GTX690 is in triple monitor gaming in Sleeping Dogs across 3 monitors. Not bad for a $180 card running a game using DirectCompute.

sleepingdogs_5760_1080.gif


Skyrim on 3 monitors.

12-11-DRIVERS-74.jpg


He did talk about it: Brand loyalty.

I really have got to learn to be more succinct like some of you guys. 2 words described all the mambo jumbo I wrote. Well done sir! :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
2
76
RS you keep saying the same thing but the market continues to go the other way - something has to give, clearly AMD wasn't doing as well as you seemed to believe they were - hence the bundles.

I'm just saying maybe it's time for you to step back and look at a bigger picture, AMD isn't pushing forward they're going backward these bundles and prices are designed to curb that decline not further an advancement that isn't actually taking place.

So what else is there you aren't talking about that seems to carry Nvidia through even when their price/perf isn't as good?

Once again a nvidia troll completely disregards the performance and AMAZING value that AMD is offering and focuses on the only negative thing about AMD they can. The value of their stock.

While it bothers me that AMD as a whole isn't doing well from a business standpoint. They are completely destroying Nvidia's GPU's when it comes to performance and value at this point in time.

I myself would wager that AMD trades the developers their knowledge of their GPU's to the developers of these gaming evolved titles for a set amount of game licenses. It's not really a step backward for AMD. It's showing devotion to their Gaming Evolved program that all gamers should take notice of.
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
He did talk about it: Brand loyalty.

That's a cop out, why are they loyal to Nvidia - why are more loyal to Nvidia than AMD?

Balla, please understand that AMD is not just a desktop GPU company. Their financials are a much larger picture. Their financial situation is not directly linked to their GPU division.

Yes, you reduce prices to sell more. It doesn't mean that they aren't selling though. The holiday season is coming. It is the time for promotions. What are they going to promote, CPU's? APU's? Those are mostly sold to OEM's, not you and I. Thus the big consumer promotion of GPU's. As far as declines go, the entire PC market declined. AMD's position is one where they can afford it the least.

lol

Once again a nvidia troll completely disregards the performance and AMAZING value that AMD is offering and focuses on the only negative thing about AMD they can. The value of their stock.

While it bothers me that AMD as a whole isn't doing well from a business standpoint. They are completely destroying Nvidia's GPU's when it comes to performance and value at this point in time.

I myself would wager that AMD trades the developers their knowledge of their GPU's to the developers of these gaming evolved titles for a set amount of game licenses. It's not really a step backward for AMD. It's showing devotion to their Gaming Evolved program that all gamers should take notice of.

I don't think you understand my question.
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
I never expected AMD to outsell NV knowing the lovefest for PhysX, FXAA and NV's drivers.

So you look down on these features and the value (or lack thereof) they bring to a graphics card?

Why is it that you are in the minority seemingly of this group? What is it that you know that none of these other people do?



I already told you many times, NV like many other companies can sell its products at a premium, even if they are worse. Fermi's awful performance/watt and 6 months being late was forgiven. What else? GTX550Ti selling well on Amazon, FX5200 one of the best selling cards of all time for NV? Want more evidence?

I don't recall, thanks for taking the time to re-explained your position and feelings on the subject.

Why is it that Nvida had awful perf/watt with GF100, yet is currently over 35% faster over several DX11 titles, including up to over 100% faster in some titles with tess?

What is the difference here? The 7970 is only slightly faster than the 680 yet it consumes over 100 watts more to do it?

Why are the people who bought into Fermi stupid drones, and the people who praise AMD's current products are the bringers of truth on a crusade?


You can start linking Steam survey all you want. If NV can sell less value for more $, as a company they are more successful but it also says a lot about their customers.

Why would I do that? We all know what we'll see, Nvidia leading the way with mid to low end cards like the 550 Ti you referenced before.

So you believe everything else Nvidia offers is worthles, and the only value a card can have comes down to pure performance and perf/watt, there is no other factors at play?


Again, I am not saying AMD will outsell NV next quarter. Guys like you wouldn't' buy AMD cards even if they were free (bitcoin mining). I told you how to get AMD cards for free earlier in the year and you didn't care. So really, AMD could be throwing HD7970s off a truck and NV users like you would sell them in 1 hour on EBay and still buy an NV card. You already know this.

I've owned ATI cards, though never an AMD card. Guys like me would rather work for a cure via Folding@Home than try to turn a buck. Work that is priceless to those in need.

Why is that? I'm not saying it's true, I'd take a few free 7970s, but why is it you believe your statement is factual?

Ford could put a 252 horsepower engine into a Ford Focus, and make it the most fun car to drive in the segment and Honda Civic would still outsell it. What's your point that Honda makes more exciting enthusiast cars than Ford does?

I wasn't attempting to make a point, and I'd "steer" clear of car analogies, but in this case there is far more at play than just specs. In the instance of Ford vs Honda one company simply has a better reputation through past products.

Even when NV sold the GeForce 5 basketcase, they still sold them. What's your point that NV get away with selling worse overclocking, worse performing, more expensive GPUs? Yes, we know that already. :D

I wasn't really attempting to make a point, only ascertain where you're coming from.
 
Last edited:

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Its too bad that anyone is trying to knock AMD in any way in this case. Drivers improve performance over time for a new architecture, typically. That's all that's happened here. And now AMD has faster parts and a lower price than the competition with a good game bundle. What is there to argue about, really?
 

badb0y

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2010
4,015
30
91
RS you keep saying the same thing but the market continues to go the other way - something has to give, clearly AMD wasn't doing as well as you seemed to believe they were - hence the bundles.

I'm just saying maybe it's time for you to step back and look at a bigger picture, AMD isn't pushing forward they're going backward these bundles and prices are designed to curb that decline not further an advancement that isn't actually taking place.

So what else is there you aren't talking about that seems to carry Nvidia through even when their price/perf isn't as good?
The bundles and deals are probably more in line with the holiday season approaching then anything else. I remember Anand wrote an article on AMD's HD 5000 or HD 4000 series(forgot which one it was) and they mentioned that they specifically try to release products around the time people are in the market for them such as the Holiday season or new Windows release etc.
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
Why do they need sweeten the deal when they already had the best cards for the money at every tier prior to these drivers and were already making gains in market share?

Something isn't adding up, who is AMD going after if a large portion of the market is bias Nvidia drones it doesn't matter what AMD does... AMD already had the best cards for the best prices around.

Surely AMD must know as much as RS?