Anandtech is run on a mix of servers. 5 Intel, 4 AMD. The 4 AMD are the most recent additions.
If you are buying systems from someone, stability is the product of their ability to build and configure the systems properly. If they aren't stable, don't switch processors, switch suppliers. They aren't doing things right. If this doesn't show up in Intel systems its because they aren't as familiar with non-Intel systems. [I wouldn't trust Dell to build an AMD system for a while.] Which is a shame. The local shop I spec all our systems to is very good at setting AMD systems up. Of the problems I have had with them over 5 years since taking this job, 95% are either user or OS errors. The other 5% have mostly been hard drive failures or a fried card for one reason or another. Our agency has recently entered a contract with Dell to supply our systems but personally, I'd rather not wait for their service guy to show up for a problem when I can walk to box over to the shop for repairs in less than 15 minutes. Not to mention a lot cheaper.
Any system is only as good as the components, the builder's skill, and the user's ability to not screw things up.
If you are buying systems from someone, stability is the product of their ability to build and configure the systems properly. If they aren't stable, don't switch processors, switch suppliers. They aren't doing things right. If this doesn't show up in Intel systems its because they aren't as familiar with non-Intel systems. [I wouldn't trust Dell to build an AMD system for a while.] Which is a shame. The local shop I spec all our systems to is very good at setting AMD systems up. Of the problems I have had with them over 5 years since taking this job, 95% are either user or OS errors. The other 5% have mostly been hard drive failures or a fried card for one reason or another. Our agency has recently entered a contract with Dell to supply our systems but personally, I'd rather not wait for their service guy to show up for a problem when I can walk to box over to the shop for repairs in less than 15 minutes. Not to mention a lot cheaper.
Any system is only as good as the components, the builder's skill, and the user's ability to not screw things up.
See my response in your other thread on Tech Support...
Frankly, I am sick and fscking tired of folks who are quick to blame AMD and VIA for something as simple as a lockup with a modem. If the setup works on a different board and chip, then you've probably got a bad A7V. Have you RMA'd the board? Swap the board for a new one, then try it again. If it STILL doesn't work, then look for other issues.
Frankly, I'd blame WinME for the problem, much more so than the chipset. From my experience it is more unstable than Win9x, and doesn't really do much for you.
Oh, and one other thing. If you expect to receive a decent answer on a board like this, please post DETAILS of your problem. Simply saying "My computer crashes when I do X" is not sufficient. We need more details...
I've built systems using Intel and AMD processors, and have had my share of problems with both. If you want to blame anyone, blame the industry for believing that they can turn out quality product on a four month cycle...
Dave
Frankly, I am sick and fscking tired of folks who are quick to blame AMD and VIA for something as simple as a lockup with a modem. If the setup works on a different board and chip, then you've probably got a bad A7V. Have you RMA'd the board? Swap the board for a new one, then try it again. If it STILL doesn't work, then look for other issues.
Frankly, I'd blame WinME for the problem, much more so than the chipset. From my experience it is more unstable than Win9x, and doesn't really do much for you.
Oh, and one other thing. If you expect to receive a decent answer on a board like this, please post DETAILS of your problem. Simply saying "My computer crashes when I do X" is not sufficient. We need more details...
I've built systems using Intel and AMD processors, and have had my share of problems with both. If you want to blame anyone, blame the industry for believing that they can turn out quality product on a four month cycle...
Dave
The Sauce
Diamond Member
- Oct 31, 1999
- 4,741
- 34
- 91
My "computer saavy" friend was building a similar system...1.1 GHz TB and MSI K7T mobo and could not get it to work. He must have tried about 100 different configurations, sending memory back, RMA'ed the mobo, RMA'ed the PS, etc...
After about 2 weeks he had a nervous breakdown and took it to a shop (I live in another state so could not help) and it turned out he had no h/s compound on and it was overheating. What a dildo. That's like the first thing I told him to check.
Now he sings the praises of AMD...thinks its the best computer he ever had.
Moral of the story: Sometimes you're not as smart as you think you are.
Not saying anything about you man...just a funny story.
After about 2 weeks he had a nervous breakdown and took it to a shop (I live in another state so could not help) and it turned out he had no h/s compound on and it was overheating. What a dildo. That's like the first thing I told him to check.
Now he sings the praises of AMD...thinks its the best computer he ever had.
Moral of the story: Sometimes you're not as smart as you think you are.
Not saying anything about you man...just a funny story.
there are several answers to your questions.. the reason amd has no server products yet is they are still developing them. they are waiting to get a truly stable server chip before they market it. why no vendors sell them? because historically they were unstable inferior processors. not anymore though. i have friends one works for amd and one works for intel. the frined who works for AMD has had nothing but great experiences witht hem while the one who works for intel when i told him i got a tbird instead of a p3 said good because intel doesnt have the highest quality goods anymore. the tides are turning, slowly but surely AMD is definately a worthy chipmaker and they have proven themselves thus far since the introduction of the athlon.
Actually, I remember reading on the update page (posted by Anand) that the 4 Athlon systems are used as the webservers, and the Intel systems are used for the Forums.
Anyway, Robo guy... Budman already proved you wrong about the AMD system not being good servers. So give it a rest...
Anyway, Robo guy... Budman already proved you wrong about the AMD system not being good servers. So give it a rest...
In my house there are 3 AMD systems and 2 Intel:
Athlon 650Mhz Slot A/MSI K7 Pro (Win2K OS)
Duron 650Mhz/KT7-RAID (Win98SE, WinNT and Win2K triple boot)
T-Bird 1Ghz/Aopen AK73 Pro (Win98SE and Win2K dual boot)
All 3 systems run *Perfect*.
The other 2 machines are a P3 500Mhz/Aopen AX6BC Pro and Celeon 366/ASUS P3B-F.
The intel boards put up much more of a fight (to get something to work) then the Athlons do
And, the company i use to work for installed a bunch of Athlons in a law office. No problem there!!
Athlon 650Mhz Slot A/MSI K7 Pro (Win2K OS)
Duron 650Mhz/KT7-RAID (Win98SE, WinNT and Win2K triple boot)
T-Bird 1Ghz/Aopen AK73 Pro (Win98SE and Win2K dual boot)
All 3 systems run *Perfect*.
The other 2 machines are a P3 500Mhz/Aopen AX6BC Pro and Celeon 366/ASUS P3B-F.
The intel boards put up much more of a fight (to get something to work) then the Athlons do
And, the company i use to work for installed a bunch of Athlons in a law office. No problem there!!
Well since I've never built an Intel system I guess my bias counts me out.
PcResources I can't believe you actually build Linux servers. Weren't you questioning my dislike for Microsoft operating systems a while ago?
PcResources I can't believe you actually build Linux servers. Weren't you questioning my dislike for Microsoft operating systems a while ago?
<< PcResources I can't believe you actually build Linux servers. Weren't you questioning my dislike for Microsoft operating systems a while ago? >>
No, i said i understood the "Microsoft sux" part in your sig, i just didn't understand the nVidia part, remember?
linux is No1 when it comes to OS, except maybe for other unix dialects.
Patrick Palm
Am speaking for PC Resources
I dont have any problems with my T-Bird and my A7V. I run windows 2000 and ME with no troubles at all.
Mem
Lifer
- Apr 23, 2000
- 21,476
- 13
- 81
My input as always is the same, my last board was Intel & my new current system is 900mhz T-bird, MSI K7T PRO,Geforce2 MX,Crucial 256MB,SBlive,anyway this is by far the most stable system I`ve ever owned or used,it was very easy to setup & is still giving me rock solid stability.
It`s very easy to blame AMD if something goes wrong but if Intel goes wrong nobody blames them. You can see most Members AMD systems here are working fine,some also like Intel have problems,how many have cheap parts like ram or setup wrong? then even if you think you have setup the system correctly you may not have,anyway if I can setup a AMD system & this is my first with a Via chipset then most people should be able to,the only thing I did was made sure I used all AMD approved parts & installed high quality ram,does not take much brainwork for that.
It`s very easy to blame AMD if something goes wrong but if Intel goes wrong nobody blames them. You can see most Members AMD systems here are working fine,some also like Intel have problems,how many have cheap parts like ram or setup wrong? then even if you think you have setup the system correctly you may not have,anyway if I can setup a AMD system & this is my first with a Via chipset then most people should be able to,the only thing I did was made sure I used all AMD approved parts & installed high quality ram,does not take much brainwork for that.
Adul
Elite Member
I have buit 4 duron system and I have also advised on 3 others. I am working on a fifth system.
MSI k7t pro
2 Abit Kt7
1 Soyo K7vt
MSI k7t pro 2a
All have been rock solid and stable systems. More so then my celeron setup. Make braod statements on a single experience is not a good thing to do on here. Soorry you can't get it to work, But you really should try to RMA that board. Also that modem can be causing a hardware conflict. Since you are using a MB with raid on it IRQ's are a bit scarce.
MSI k7t pro
2 Abit Kt7
1 Soyo K7vt
MSI k7t pro 2a
All have been rock solid and stable systems. More so then my celeron setup. Make braod statements on a single experience is not a good thing to do on here. Soorry you can't get it to work, But you really should try to RMA that board. Also that modem can be causing a hardware conflict. Since you are using a MB with raid on it IRQ's are a bit scarce.
One hilarious MST3K episode starts out with a shot of a University of Arkansas football game. As the camera pans the fervent crowd cheering for their TEAM, Crow says in a spacy voice, "We've attached our egos to YOU".
Reminds me of some of the comments in this thread. Man, don't take a criticism of AMD/VIA so
personally! Everybody knows VIA's memory bus is at least slightly inferior to Intel's. MSI's stability is due in large part to their massive capacitors and well-designed board. Asus usually achieves the same thing with their boards. JackH probably has a bad board. All this talk about crap behind the keyboard is stupid. What, is that the latest geek catch phrase? People just waiting for a chance to use it? Give me a break.
(btw: I'm running amd myself.) The reason to buy AMD is the rock-bottom prices. Let's face it, you do have to be careful though. There's no question the entire hardware industry has taken a page from the Microsoft handbook, ie: they all release products that are barely ready to use and let the first generation of buyers act as a sort of beta testbed. After ten thousand complaints they eventually refine the production process, get all the bios & driver patches sorted out, and finally release a stable product.
Really the only hardware worth buying is the stuff most people would consider outdated (ie: 3-5 months old)! At that point it's not only cheap, it actually works right! BTW: You guys should tone down all the rhetoric about people not knowing how to set up a system. It's not exactly a rare skill, and if a person would have to go so far as making manual bios or registry hacks just to get it to work right they'd have a right to complain!
Bottom line: VIA+AMD is worth it. It's the flaky mobo that's not worth it. The key really is not to put hundreds of hours into trying to get defective hardware to run right. Hey, maybe you do have to shop around carefully and even return a flaky board now and then. But the price/performance ratio for AMD is definately worth it... BIG TIME!
Reminds me of some of the comments in this thread. Man, don't take a criticism of AMD/VIA so
personally! Everybody knows VIA's memory bus is at least slightly inferior to Intel's. MSI's stability is due in large part to their massive capacitors and well-designed board. Asus usually achieves the same thing with their boards. JackH probably has a bad board. All this talk about crap behind the keyboard is stupid. What, is that the latest geek catch phrase? People just waiting for a chance to use it? Give me a break.
(btw: I'm running amd myself.) The reason to buy AMD is the rock-bottom prices. Let's face it, you do have to be careful though. There's no question the entire hardware industry has taken a page from the Microsoft handbook, ie: they all release products that are barely ready to use and let the first generation of buyers act as a sort of beta testbed. After ten thousand complaints they eventually refine the production process, get all the bios & driver patches sorted out, and finally release a stable product.
Really the only hardware worth buying is the stuff most people would consider outdated (ie: 3-5 months old)! At that point it's not only cheap, it actually works right! BTW: You guys should tone down all the rhetoric about people not knowing how to set up a system. It's not exactly a rare skill, and if a person would have to go so far as making manual bios or registry hacks just to get it to work right they'd have a right to complain!
Bottom line: VIA+AMD is worth it. It's the flaky mobo that's not worth it. The key really is not to put hundreds of hours into trying to get defective hardware to run right. Hey, maybe you do have to shop around carefully and even return a flaky board now and then. But the price/performance ratio for AMD is definately worth it... BIG TIME!
The only AMD system I have ever built was my 386 sx 40. IT worked great, but thats besides the point. I dont think you can ever really rule out admin error. Throughout the 10 years of building computers I have learned a lot but still make mistakes. I think people are calling you cocky because you are clearly stating that it cant be you that is at fault. Maybe your right but there is always about 5-10% user error.
JackHawksmoor, dump that Asus board and get an MSI K7T Pro2A. Then come back and talk to us. I'm confident you will have a different outlook.
what? AMD is very good!
used P1 MMX, PII, PIII now my thunderbird800 + MSI K7TPRo is very stable!
Go AMD
used P1 MMX, PII, PIII now my thunderbird800 + MSI K7TPRo is very stable!
Go AMD
dammit my classic 800 atholon and A7V work in my bussiness as they should and they are solid as one could expect. have yet to have a hickup. oh dammn I might have to reinstall windows in the next century. or will the puter last that long?
lmao
lmao
glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
- 25,383
- 1,013
- 126
"AMD might be fine for you kids to play with all day, but in the real world stability is the most important aspect of a system and AMD just can't provide that. Ever notice how AMD has no server products? How no companies use AMD products? Makes ya wonder, huh? You kids can keep AMD...they just aren't worth the problems."
"Geez, can't anyone just accept that this thing dosen't work right? Most business DO NOT use AMD, and this is why..."
"Correct. I like AMD to play around with but I cannot afford downtime to "get things just right". I run a Compaq house but we have quite a few clones and absolutely NO AMD in our 600 computer network nor will we. I spec them and ultimately it's my choice. Love tweaking at home but I have FAR better things to do at work."
Sorry JackHawk, but there are too many people that have AMD products, on Via chipset mobos, running without problems to say that there is a universal problem with either AMD or Via. I can assure you, that if you honestly feel that way (it's okay to spend extra corporate IT capital budget money on certain brands that you prefer, because they're more 'reliable'), and cannot definitively and quantitatively prove it (for Intel products or any other), i sure hope you have a backup career plan. You'd better unlearn that habit of thinking Intel is more reliable, because it's not. CFO's don't stay stupid forever. Eventually, you will have to justify your CAPEX budgets, and i can assure you, "jeeez, can't you just accept it doesn't work right" just won't cut it. I suggest you learn how to put together a system, and get used to AMD.
Intel's products are sooooooo much more superior to AMD's, eh? Hmmm... let's look at some of Intel's great achievements lately:
Ability to use Linux on P4? (no, another Intel f.ck up)
P-4 processor (recalled)
1.13 Ghz P3 (recalled)
820 series mobo (a turd, later recalled)
Memory Translator Hub (defective, and later recalled)
support for Rambus (is suck)
high clockspeed cpu's? (i.e. nearly non-existent 1 Ghz models)
Paper cpu launches? (yes)
By no means an exhaustive list. Yeah, Intel is certainly more reliable. You're almost guaranteed to have a problem with Intel products. Recall, anyone?
"Geez, can't anyone just accept that this thing dosen't work right? Most business DO NOT use AMD, and this is why..."
"Correct. I like AMD to play around with but I cannot afford downtime to "get things just right". I run a Compaq house but we have quite a few clones and absolutely NO AMD in our 600 computer network nor will we. I spec them and ultimately it's my choice. Love tweaking at home but I have FAR better things to do at work."
Sorry JackHawk, but there are too many people that have AMD products, on Via chipset mobos, running without problems to say that there is a universal problem with either AMD or Via. I can assure you, that if you honestly feel that way (it's okay to spend extra corporate IT capital budget money on certain brands that you prefer, because they're more 'reliable'), and cannot definitively and quantitatively prove it (for Intel products or any other), i sure hope you have a backup career plan. You'd better unlearn that habit of thinking Intel is more reliable, because it's not. CFO's don't stay stupid forever. Eventually, you will have to justify your CAPEX budgets, and i can assure you, "jeeez, can't you just accept it doesn't work right" just won't cut it. I suggest you learn how to put together a system, and get used to AMD.
Intel's products are sooooooo much more superior to AMD's, eh? Hmmm... let's look at some of Intel's great achievements lately:
Ability to use Linux on P4? (no, another Intel f.ck up)
P-4 processor (recalled)
1.13 Ghz P3 (recalled)
820 series mobo (a turd, later recalled)
Memory Translator Hub (defective, and later recalled)
support for Rambus (is suck)
high clockspeed cpu's? (i.e. nearly non-existent 1 Ghz models)
Paper cpu launches? (yes)
By no means an exhaustive list. Yeah, Intel is certainly more reliable. You're almost guaranteed to have a problem with Intel products. Recall, anyone?
hey glen I to run a business and intel is out sorry they have bit the dust. why? they have not kept up!
glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
- 25,383
- 1,013
- 126
LXi... sure was, well Hewlett Packard P4 systems anyway... seems good ol' Intel put them out into the market with a bad BIOS (at least that's what Intel claims... there were rumors of them having overheating and other problems... but guess we'll never know, eh?)
Here's a link.... The Register
Here's a link.... The Register
GT1999
Diamond Member
- Oct 10, 1999
- 5,261
- 1
- 71
<< Last week Hewlett-Packard crowed that it had sold out of Pentium 4s: it also told The Register that no machines containing a faulty BIOS supplied by Intel had escaped into the public. >>
Hrmmmm
<< Anyone attempting to purchase computer systems featuring Pentium 4 chips at Best Buy outlets in Houston, Texas; Jacksonville, Florida and elsewhere in the southern US were told Pentium 4 systems were no longer available, according to IDG. >>
Ouch!
<< Sales reps were also telling customers that overheating and performance issues were to blame for the recall, but the real reason seems to be in order to upgrade the BIOS on display models. >>
Hey, this is Best Buy, what can you expect?
AMD Rocks!!!!! I have a duron 700 that overclocks to 1150 and runs for days straight cracking RC 5.
Long Live AMD
Long Live AMD
For the love of GOD, somebody please kill this thread.
oops, I think I just bumped it to the top :Q
oops, I think I just bumped it to the top :Q
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