AMD @ GDC: Partnership with MS next-generation graphics.

[AnandThenMan]

Facts.
DX12 solves the same problem like Mantle. So there doesn't exist any reason to use Mantle.

I can use Mantle now DX12 exists in some slides, that's a pretty damn good reason.

 

[R0H1T]

No word on OS support. It would be interesting if they supported linux and android, that would solidify their dominance.

I think it's safe to say that it'll require win9 at the very least & I doubt linux or any of its derivatives will ever get support from MS.

 

[krumme]

No word on OS support. It would be interesting if they supported linux and android, that would solidify their dominance.

MS is getting weak. Their products is more and more useless.
Xbox is losing big time.
When Denver arives, NV will stab MS in the back 10 times.

 

[monstercameron]

http://www.frostbite.com/2014/03/rendering-battlefield-4-with-mantle/

 

[piesquared]

This just confirms that Mantle is here to stay. It's a proven API that is already implimented in games, has major developer support, increases peformance dramatically, takes only 2 man months to impliment, is being impimented in many top engines and dozens of games, brings gaming to a much wider audience, the list goes on. Best of all, as mentioned, it's here now and it's what developers asked for. DX12 will show up in a couple years, which is good and all for gamers, but those gamers will already be benefitting from Mantle goodness.

 

[sontin]

Microsofts blog post:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx

Forza run on Windows with D3D12 on a Titan card.

I can use Mantle now DX12 exists in some slides, that's a pretty damn good reason.

Mantle exists only on powerpoint for >90% of all developers.
Beta programm is only starting in April with NDA.

 

[krumme]

I think it's safe to say that it'll require win9 at the very least & I doubt linux or any of its derivatives will ever get support from MS.

Well MS could easily build dx12 support into win7, but will they?

No. They react like they are still deciding what direction things is going.

Lets assume there is a time when win 9 becomes more widespread -- unlike win 8 or win 8.1 witch market share is still near the single digits, - then what is the market for the devs then for win 9? - next to zerro.

At that time PS4 part 2, is here as a giant platform - for the new games. The mobiles. Linux.

Who cares about MS anymore?

What a weak showing of a dying giant.

Lots of slide with no technical info.

 

[piesquared]

5-6 games in that 2 yr period should not be had to beat though

that is assuming no one jumps Mantle ship now that early acces DX12 is available later this year



yay

Sounds like more developers are actually boarding that ship than ever before. AMD recentley stated that there is a list (of dozens) lined up to be certified for Mantle access.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Mantle exists only on powerpoint for >90% of all developers.

Got anything to back that number up? Or can you just admit you made it up. Either way it doesn't matter to me, I can use Mantle NOW I can't use DX12 for another 2 years. Maybe you're willing to wait that long I don't know.

 

[PPB]

Microsofts blog post:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx

Forza run on Windows with D3D12 on a Titan card.



Mantle exists only on powerpoint for >90% of all developers.
Beta programm is only starting in April with NDA.

And you have a number of how many devs have DX12 drivers right now? Please stahp, you are making a fool out of yourself. You are settling with so little, the 2 year wait will be too long if you get this hyped for 5 powerslides, out of which only 1 has a mere bar graph and the rest of them are flooded with vague statements.


PS: Here is a new one, DX 11.2 reduced cpu overhead compared to DX11, so in some people's logic DX12 does the same as DX 11.2! Who would have guessed...

PS2: Those AMD PR guys missed 1 bullet point in their slide about why they like DX12: because not only they just made it under another name, they have the chance to use it uncontestedly for 2 years on their hardware

 

[sontin]

And you have a number of how many devs have DX12 drivers right now? Please stahp, you are making a fool out of yourself. You are settling with so little, the 2 year wait will be too long if you get this hyped for 5 powerslides, out of which only 1 has a mere bar graph and the rest of them are flooded with vague statements.


PS: Here is a new one, DX 11.2 reduced cpu overhead compared to DX11, so in some people's logic DX12 does the same as DX 11.2! Who would have guessed...

Wow, so much hate for open standards. Priceless.
How many devs have access to Mantle?
And whats the matter with all the "access" thing? DX12 is an open standard. Previews will be ready at the end of the year. It's currently in alpha state:

t’s our job to create great APIs and we have worked closely with our hardware and software partners to prove the significant performance wins of Direct3D 12. And these aren’t just micro-benchmarks that we hacked up ourselves – these numbers are for commercially released game engines or benchmarks, running on our alpha implementation. The screenshots below are from real Direct3D 12 app code running on a real Direct3D 12 runtime running on a real Direct3D 12 driver.

At least Microsoft was able to show something outside of powerpoint slides from day one.

 

[f1sherman]

Sounds like more developers are actually boarding that ship than ever before. AMD recentley stated that there is a list (of dozens) lined up to be certified for Mantle access.

Obviously that was before DX12 announcement.
Also Mantle is no public domain - AMD has shipped Mantle only to select few
If you're not among chosen ones, why bother now that DX12 is available later this year.

And btw that 2 yr advantage looks to be ~6 months, because Mantle is also in early access/not fully finished phase

 

[PPB]

At least Microsoft was able to show something outside of powerpoint slides from day one.

Well, this is not actually day one, dont you remember DX12 has been in the "works" for -ahem- 4 years?


4 years for some powerpoint slides? Damn.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Obviously that was before DX12 announcement.
Also Mantle is no public domain - AMD has shipped Mantle only to select few
If you're not among chosen ones, why bother now that DX12 is available later this year.

And btw that 2 yr advantage looks to be ~6 months, because Mantle is also in early access/not fully finished phase

That's some rose coloured glasses you have for DX12. As for as Mantle being "finished" an active API is never finished it is always evolving.

4 years for some powerpoint slides? Damn.

I'm calling MS out on the 4 year thing, I think they are full of crap.

 

[piesquared]

Obviously that was before DX12 announcement.
Also Mantle is no public domain - AMD has shipped Mantle only to select few
If you're not among chosen ones, why bother now that DX12 is available later this year.

And btw that 2 yr advantage looks to be ~6 months, because Mantle is also in early access/not fully finished phase

Negative. That would imply that developers had no idea of what DX12 was, is or when it was coming. Obviously they knew, or else that would imply this is just a hobbled together, last minute counter. No, developers knew full well about DX12, yet they chose and are choosing Mantle at an increasing rate. Mantle games are on the market now, DX12? 2 years. IMO, DX12 is a last minute hobbled together desperation attempt to try and answer Mantle. Again, Mantle is proven, on the market now, with wide support.

 

[krumme]

Wow, so much hate for open standards. Priceless.
How many devs have access to Mantle?
And whats the matter with all the "access" thing? DX12 is an open standard. Previews will be ready at the end of the year. It's currently in alpha state:


At least Microsoft was able to show something outside of powerpoint slides from day one.

DX is open standard? - lol

No its a closed Windows standard.

What matters today is cross platform OS compatability

 

[f1sherman]

Negative. That would imply that developers had no idea of what DX12 was, is or when it was coming.

DX12 - Was it announced before?

I thought that's why MS held this event.
Because no one knew what DX12 was or when it was coming

 

[f1sherman]

That's some rose coloured glasses you have for DX12. As for as Mantle being "finished" an active API is never finished it is always evolving.

finished as in ready to ship in generally worked out manner

With no public documentation and available only to selected few devs, I doubt thats how AMD has envisioned Mantle.

Similarly to DX12 which will be available later this year in an early access, not RTM form.

 

[piesquared]

DX12 - Was it announced before?

I thought that's why MS held this event.
Because no one knew what DX12 was or when it was coming

Seriously, do you honestly believe that internally, no game/engine designers were aware of DX12? I'll wager almost all developers know what is coming down the pipe long before it's ever announced publicly.

 

[krumme]

DX12 - Was it announced before?

I thought that's why MS held this event.
Because no one knew what DX12 was or when it was coming

Perhaps MS worked 4 years on DX12 secretly?

 

[3DVagabond]

It looks more that AMD took all the work from MS and partners, designed their own API and released it in an alpha state to be on the market before MS with DX12.

/edit: Mantle is dead. Same market, same "tool" for the same problem.

/edit: No new hardware from AMD:

http://www.pcper.com/live/

So now MS and Partners invented an API we didn't need, because DX11 multithreading was fine, just to make AMD's crappie CPU's and APU's look good, and AMD stole it from them? Yeah, I can follow the logic... No wait, no I can't.

 

[PPB]

I'm calling MS out on the 4 year thing, I think they are full of crap.

Obviously its a BS statement that only the most loyal fanbase would believe. I think they made a pretty good presentation considering this is mostly damage control and vaporware. (to think the same defenders here were saying Mantle was vaporware because it shipped 4-5 months after being announced.... then DX12 is x4 vaporware! lol).

 

[f1sherman]

Seriously, do you honestly believe that internally, no game/engine designers were aware of DX12? I'll wager almost all developers know what is coming down the pipe long before it's ever announced publicly.

actually I do believe no one was aware of exact or even rough timeline

and certainly not "later this year" part

 

[OCGuy]

Obviously its a BS statement that only the most loyal fanbase would believe. I think they made a pretty good presentation considering this is mostly damage control and vaporware. (to think the same defenders here were saying Mantle was vaporware because it shipped 4-5 months after being announced.... then DX12 is x4 vaporware! lol).

Are we still pretending Mantle isn't in more than 2 games currently? And that not even the full 30% of AMD's marketshare has the hardware needed to use it?

 

[Keysplayr]

Are we still pretending Mantle isn't in more than 2 games currently? And that not even the full 30% of AMD's marketshare has the hardware needed to use it?

Isn't? or Is? in more than two games?