AMD @ GDC: Partnership with MS next-generation graphics.

[krumme]

^its not broken. Bent, but not broken.

I stand corrected. Dan didnt use the word "broken" but "failed". I am sorry. I must have got the word "broken" from Johan.

But we must understand some frustration from the guys; they probably just ask one of their creative designers to use their time to pack together textures or some other productive dx optimization.

 

[Carfax83]

Broken and non-functional are different things...its not very good according to Dan baker himself, I don't understand what you are getting at?

I was saying that while it's clearly not as good as Mantle, it's not broken.

Broken implies being dysfunctional. Anyway, from the new PCper article, NVidia seems to have been working on some new DX11 super driver which may boost deferred context performance quite a bit to parity with Mantle..

 

[monstercameron]

No, "broken and non-functional" have the same meaning.
I mean it would be the same to call DX11.1 and DX11.2 "broken" because nVidia only supports FeatureLevel 11_0.

Deferred Context works just fine. However the implementation is not as smooth as with Mantle or DX12. But that it's normal for a lot of techniques - see for example Tessellation.

no

• my remote is broken, I can't change the channel
• my remote is non-functional, It literally doesn't work, at all!

do you see the difference, although this is dwelling too much in the semantics of it.

it works, but not well.

 

[monstercameron]

I was saying that while it's clearly not as good as Mantle, it's not broken.

Broken implies being dysfunctional. Anyway, from the new PCper article, NVidia seems to have been working on some new DX11 super driver which may boost deferred context performance quite a bit to parity with Mantle..

whats not clear for me is if it is application specific or global...did they specifically mention what they fixed?

 

[Erenhardt]

And NVidia is porting several aspects of PhysX to DirectCompute with the Flex initiative:

Is it plausible to see FLEX ported to OpenCL or DirectCompute?[/B]

Miles Macklin: Right now we have a CUDA implementation and a DirectCompute implementation is planned.

I advise you to stop offtopic the discussion about some vaporware implementation of yet exclusive features (GPU PhysX - which is what your 650ti is for)

There are lots of devs that do not share your opinion about DX11.
DX12 doesn't seem so great, otherwise why would big game engines developers take their time to implement mantle?

 

[Shivansps]

DX12 doesn't seem so great, otherwise why would big game engines developers take their time to implement mantle?

How could any developer do something in a API where the SDK is not avalible? they got paid by AMD, period. Its not so hard to understand, it was not the first and it will not be the last.

 

[3DVagabond]

Funny enoght, even his puppet "Star Swarm" supports command lists that, according to AMD, are broken.

At least AMD gave them the option to use the feature if they wanted to even though their driver doesn't support it. So, how do you mean "puppet"?

How could any developer do something in a API where the SDK is not avalible? they got paid by AMD, period. Its not so hard to understand, it was not the first and it will not be the last.

does that mean that the only reason nVidia has DX12 drivers for dev testing is because MS paid them? Of course not. So why can't you understand that devs would want to use Mantle without being because they were paid?

 

[NTMBK]

Comments like this are the "angst" about DX12 I was referring to in my post. Talk about wishful thinking.. The comment said "work" began on DX12 four years ago with discussions.

If you think they are just going to start engineering it without first seriously debating and discussing what will eventually become an industry standard with very wide adoption then you are sadly mistaken and hopelessly ignorant when it comes to how the development process works.

Mantle was in development for 3 years before it was even announced (although there were plenty of hints), and Mantle only runs on one architecture, and not several like DirectX..

Don't try to lecture me on how software development works. But discussions certainly do not always translate into actual work done. You go to a partner, you have a conversation about what you would like to happen, and they say that it's not going to happen.

And DirectX 12 isn't done yet- all that they have done so far, as far as I can tell, is to iron out the API (i.e. copy the Mantle API and rename a few things), and get a basic driver implementation for one NVidia GPU which works well enough for a single demo. That single driver is going to be nowhere near production quality, if I know software demos- it's going to be a mess of kludges, unimplemented features, and unresolved bugs, which just holds together well enough to run the early preview demo. And that's fine- that's how it goes, and I'm not slighting NVidia or Microsoft with this. It's going to be another year and a half before we see any actual games or drivers released.

 

[NTMBK]

Bad mouthing AMD? Have you and I been reading the same thread? This whole thread has been a diatribe against Microsoft (not addressing you personally). I am no fan of microsoft, and undoubtedly DX needs improvement, and was pushed towards it by mantle. I also hate windows 8, and think MS has gotten arrogant. But personally, I dont care who was first, who copied who, or what went on behind the scenes. In fact despite statements from some of those involved, we probably will never know that. But now MS is bringing the benefits of mantle to the other 60 plus percent of the market that does not run gcn hardware. It may be late and patterned off mantle, but I still cant see that as a bad thing.

PC gaming most likely would never have reached the point it has today without an overriding API that allows all games to be played on hardware from all vendors.
I can play any game I want on a 600.00 PC with a added in 100 dollar video card. Sure I cant play BF4 at a constant 120 fps, but that does not bother me. DX has to have something going for it to allow that.

There are a handful of users I could call out for consistently badmouthing AMD in this (and indeed every other) thread, but I don't want to get an infraction.

Anyway, I agree with the majority of your post. Getting benefits of Mantle into DirectX means more widespread hardware support, which means more widespread adoption in software, which means better games for us all. It's a definite win for the consumer. As far as I'm concerned Mantle was a tool that has now served its purpose.

 

[cytg111]

Its not so hard to understand, it was not the first and it will not be the last..

What ?

 

[cytg111]

There are a handful of users I could call out for consistently badmouthing AMD in this (and indeed every other) thread, but I don't want to get an infraction.

Anyway, I agree with the majority of your post. Getting benefits of Mantle into DirectX means more widespread hardware support, which means more widespread adoption in software, which means better games for us all. It's a definite win for the consumer. As far as I'm concerned Mantle was a tool that has now served its purpose.

+1 but I'd like to keep mantle around until dx12 actually hits, so still serving the purpose IMO, and on uptil 2015.

 

[sontin]

As far as I'm concerned Mantle was a tool that has now served its purpose.

Aha. How was Mantle "a tool" when nVidia had been working on a functional DX12 enviroment before Mantle was announced? :|

 

[ShintaiDK]

Its amazing how much people still hold on to Mantle being the saviour of all things. When its already been debunked that it had no effect now from 3 companies. And AMD with their famous "There will never be a DX12", now quietly dropped back into line.

Or the minimal game list:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/mantle/Pages/mantle.aspx#2

Even AMD PR doesnt hold the same confidence as some members here.

 

[frozentundra123456]

There are a handful of users I could call out for consistently badmouthing AMD in this (and indeed every other) thread, but I don't want to get an infraction.

Anyway, I agree with the majority of your post. Getting benefits of Mantle into DirectX means more widespread hardware support, which means more widespread adoption in software, which means better games for us all. It's a definite win for the consumer. As far as I'm concerned Mantle was a tool that has now served its purpose.

Well it works both ways. There is plenty of thread crapping going on in any thread here saying favorable things about DX 12.

All I am saying is I am tired of hearing how everyone hates on amd when some of the most outrageous posts on these forums come from amd supporters, and there are plenty of them.

 

[NTMBK]

Well it works both ways. There is plenty of thread crapping going on in any thread here saying favorable things about DX 12.

All I am saying is I am tired of hearing how everyone hates on amd when some of the most outrageous posts on these forums come from amd supporters, and there are plenty of them.

Eh, maybe it's just the portion of the thread that I read. Not gonna lie, I skipped about 12 pages.

 

[NTMBK]

Aha. How was Mantle "a tool" when nVidia had been working on a functional DX12 enviroment before Mantle was announced? :|

Any evidence for that claim?

 

[Final8ty]

There are a handful of users I could call out for consistently badmouthing AMD in this (and indeed every other) thread, but I don't want to get an infraction.

Anyway, I agree with the majority of your post. Getting benefits of Mantle into DirectX means more widespread hardware support, which means more widespread adoption in software, which means better games for us all. It's a definite win for the consumer. As far as I'm concerned Mantle was a tool that has now served its purpose.

+1

 

[HWfreak]

Its amazing how much people still hold on to Mantle being the saviour of all things. When its already been debunked that it had no effect now from 3 companies. And AMD with their famous "There will never be a DX12", now quietly dropped back into line.

Or the minimal game list:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/mantle/Pages/mantle.aspx#2

Even AMD PR doesnt hold the same confidence as some members here.

Debunked?

Mantle exists, its still being taken up by more developers (despite all the DX12 noise)

DX12 is and has none of those. its also created primarily for Consoles by a company who want you to dump your Desktop and pay them a Monthly fee to play games online with that Console.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Debunked?

Mantle exists, its still being taken up by more developers (despite all the DX12 noise)

DX12 is and has none of those. its also created primarily for Consoles by a company who want you to dump your Desktop and pay them a Monthly fee to play games online with that Console.

So when ARM companies such as Qualcomm backs DX12, its also for consoles? And now suddenly AMD loves DX12. Less than a year after they claimed there would be no DX12.

There are 4 games on the list that will support Mantle. 3 in 2014 and 1 in 2015+.

And yes, debunked.

 

[HWfreak]

So when ARM companies such as Qualcomm backs DX12, its also for consoles? And now suddenly AMD loves DX12. Less than a year after they claimed there would be no DX12.

There are 4 games on the list that will support Mantle. 3 in 2014 and 1 in 2015+.

And yes, debunked.

They also back DX11, it doesn't mean anything.

Mantle has been around for 3 Months, in that time they have two AAA titles running it, including the biggest Shooter Franchise ever.

4 of the 5 biggest Game engines now run Mantle and about 10 or so mainstream Developers with an unknown quantity on Games coming.

In just a few Months. its a huge success.

 

[f1sherman]

Mantle has been around for 3 Months, in that time they have two AAA titles running it, including the biggest Shooter Franchise ever.

Call of Duty or Counterstike??

 

[HWfreak]

Call of Duty or Counterstike??

Battlefield. way bigger than CoD / Counter-.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Battlefield. way bigger than CoD.

Thief, way smaller than about everything.

 

[HWfreak]

Thief, way smaller than about everything.

Just a few Months, and already the industry in a large part is more exited over Mantle than they have been over anything. and still are, while Miscrosoft are banging on about DX12 no developer (other than a Console only Developer) have said anything about it, meanwhile CryTech add their name to a still growing list of Mantle proprietors.

 

[caswow]

this is so bizzare. the biggest mantle haters are now best friend with ms and their pr slide show and 2-years-away-dx12. its actually very funny :awe: