AMD Demonstrates Prototype FreeSync Monitor

[Mand]

Do you have a list of the G-sync capable monitors available?
I'd like to see what sizes and panel types are using it so far.
Which of them have IPS not TN for example?

So far, the ones I am aware of are:

Asus VG248QE that was able to be modded, 24" 1080p 144Hz
Asus 27" ROG Swift 1440p 144Hz
Asus 28" 4k 60 Hz
Acer 28" 4k 60 Hz

The two 4k displays are almost certainly the same panel, and everything on this list is TN. However, not all TN is the same. Asus on why they picked TN and not IPS for the ROG Swift:

This panel is not targeted at standard entry users targeting sub 300 dollars monitors. As such it does not make for a comparison. With that noted, the feedback that some IPS enthusiasts are not satisfied with panel being TN is a reality of the panel technology and the performance & specifications available for corresponding panels on the market. We pushed to provide the best possible experience possible in developing a panel that did not exist and carefully considered multiple aspects in the design and develop ( many specifically in relation to pc enthusiasts and pc gamers ). Some of these points are that most TN panels are only 6bit color performance or 6bit + frc / dithering. The ROG SWIFT is a native 8 bit panel. While this will not compete with IPS or PLS in regards to there 8bit performance, it still offers a considerably improved experience compared to the majority of current TN panels. This among many other factors shows the commitment to provide a panel that meets the realistic needs and wants of the community while also ensuring the specifications needed for this monitor could be met. Ultimately if a user still wants the absolute best in color fidelity, accuracy and viewing angle they will stay or get a IPS/PLS display but at the disadvantage of not having the performance specifications offered on TN based monitors. This is nature of the panel technology now. With that noted we are excited and committed to continuing to collect feedback from the community and our users and looking to see how we can further bridge the benefits of IPS/PLS and TN panels in a single monitor.

So, while I expect IPS G-Sync eventually, it probably won't be for a while.

AOC, Philips, ViewSonic and BenQ were also named as hardware partners, but they have yet to announce G-Sync products. Who knows what they will bring to the table.

This is rather off-topic for this thread, however.

 

[blackened23]

I won't go on and on about this, but since it's semi related and the question was asked: the panel i'm most excited about - the ROG swift 1440p, 144hz and g-sync monitor was confirmed by JJ from asus to be a July release. I'd expect many other panels to follow with a July release. I think these panels are using ASIC g-sync modules as opposed to the FPGA module, so they will be more reasonable in price. The DIY FPGA g-sync module was of course, more expensive because FPGA is expensive. The new monitors should be using ASIC based g-sync which is far more cost effective and cheaper.

Anyway, I like the idea of free-sync. What I dont like is AMD's marketing and the way they're pushing something based on hype and hope for the future, throwing out vague statements to the press while leaving the important questions unanswered. They show something utterly worthless to the press that leaves more questions than answers, something they seem to do an awful lot. If there were REAL confidence in the product, reviewers would have it as a fully testable product as was g-sync shortly after the Montreal event. Instead, what AMD will probably do is a marketing stunt that dictates what type of tests websites can do while leaving the most important questions under NDA and not allowed to be tested. Seems that they did that with mobile Kaveri "previews" which apparently prohibited battery life from being tested.

 

[Mand]

I won't go on and on about this, but since it's semi related and the question was asked: the panel i'm most excited about - the ROG swift 1440p, 144hz and g-sync monitor was confirmed by JJ from asus to be a July release. I'd expect many other panels to follow with a July release. I think these panels are using ASIC g-sync modules as opposed to the FPGA module, so they will be more reasonable in price. The DIY FPGA g-sync module was of course, more expensive because FPGA is expensive. The new monitors should be using ASIC based g-sync which is far more cost effective and cheaper.

Well, the Swift has been priced at $799, so you can decide how much of that rather high pricetag G-Sync is contributing to. The other things are a new true 8-bit TN panel (not 6-bith with dithering, like most TN), 1440p, 144 Hz native. Those specs are not really available in any other panel, even IPS, so the price reflects that at the very least. How much G-Sync is adding becomes a lot trickier to determine.

What will be more useful as far as the price premium for G-Sync are the 28" 4k displays from Asus and Acer. Comparing them to the non-G-Sync 28" 4k displays that are being annouced in the $700-$800 range should be informative.

 

[blackened23]

Correct. Keep in mind that 1440p IPS panels range in price from the junk end (300$ korean panels) to the high end which is easily up to 1000$. It really does depend. While it's a TN, I think that is the better choice for a gaming oriented monitor: IPS simply is not as responsive as TN is. That's just how it is. So if a company is making a gaming oriented monitor, TN seems like a better choice since pure PC gamers care less about pinpoint color accuracy and all that sorta thing. Don't get me wrong, I love IPS panels and they have their place - I have them and use them. But I can't honestly say that IPS is better for FPS/twitch gaming, because they're really not.

Also, I think the differentiation here is 144hz, the ROG panel is the first 1440p panel certified for 144hz and g-sync. You're correct that it's trickier to determine the cost of g-sync itself, but considering that 144hz TN panels generally have a 150$ price premium at this time, i'd say the price is in line for what it offers. I don't think 800$ is bad for what it offers, because it has a lot of firsts that no other 1440p panel has. I do kinda think that the module may be ASIC based because the FPGA kit alone was 200$? I don't imagine this panel would be 800$ if the FPGA kit for 200$ were included in the BOM. I don't know though.

Hopefully the prices of all of these panels will lower over time and become within reach of everyone. While I detest AMD's marketing, i'm sure free-sync whenever it comes to fruition will further lower prices. I simply don't think free-sync will be a real thing anyone can purchase for many months or perhaps a year.

 

[Stuka87]

Instead, what AMD will probably do is a marketing stunt that dictates what type of tests websites can do while leaving the most important questions under NDA and not allowed to be tested. Seems that they did that with mobile Kaveri "previews" which apparently prohibited battery life from being tested.

Thats not a marketing stunt. It is very much the norm for just about any type of product. Car manufacturers do this the most. When reviewers are given a chance to test a vehicle that is not entirely a production model, they are given very strict rules as to what they can talk about and what they cannot talk about.

Same thing goes for this. If the product is not 100% finished, they would be stupid to allow reviewers to say anything they want. Personally I see no issue with this. When retail units are out, full reviews can then be done however the reviewer wants.

 

[Mand]

Well, keep in mind the FPGA kit also had the bleeding-edge early adopter premium, to the point where they were targeting people who were willing to rip apart their perfectly fine monitor to tear out the scaler and replace it with a new one.

Such people pay too much for new shinies :biggrin:

 

[SoulWager]

Thats not a marketing stunt. It is very much the norm for just about any type of product. Car manufacturers do this the most. When reviewers are given a chance to test a vehicle that is not entirely a production model, they are given very strict rules as to what they can talk about and what they cannot talk about.

Same thing goes for this. If the product is not 100% finished, they would be stupid to allow reviewers to say anything they want. Personally I see no issue with this. When retail units are out, full reviews can then be done however the reviewer wants.

The thing is, it isn't the minor details that are in question here. It's completely unreasonable to prevent testing of the major new feature that distinguishes your product from everything else.

 

[Leadbox]

The thing is, it isn't the minor details that are in question here. It's completely unreasonable to prevent testing of the major new feature that distinguishes your product from everything else.

If it was ready to be shown and tested in the manner you ask, then it might as well be ready to buy in 3 weeks
6-12 months they said, feel free to demand more info then or to invest in g-sync

 

[Mand]

The thing is, it isn't the minor details that are in question here. It's completely unreasonable to prevent testing of the major new feature that distinguishes your product from everything else.

Or, the major new feature that is the entire purpose for the product in the first place.

The whole point of this tech is frame-by-frame variable refresh. Anything that doesn't show that is useless, and worse than useless if they try to pass it off as "progress" which they did once at CES and it's looking likely that they have done a second time at Computex.

 

[Shivansps]

I remember Ryan DID say that maybe some monitors gona support FreeSync with a firmware upgrade back there when they announced it, but keep in mind that you cant upgrade firmware on a monitor anyway. And i remember him saying that too.

funny that people again, belive in something that amd marketing said.

 

[sontin]

Adaptive-Sync/Freesync is more than just frame-by-frame. So if the update only brings seamless refresh change for videos and static images your monitor now supports Adaptive-Sync/Freesync.

 

[Mand]

but keep in mind that you cant upgrade firmware on a monitor anyway.

I once RMA'd a monitor for a firmware update to fix a tearing issue. I couldn't update it myself, so if that's what you meant then that's true, but firmware upgrades on monitors can happen.

 

[Shivansps]

I once RMA'd a monitor for a firmware update to fix a tearing issue. I couldn't update it myself, so if that's what you meant then that's true, but firmware upgrades on monitors can happen.

yes, but not everybody can RMA a monitor. And no every OEM will be willing to upgrade to add a feature that was never intended or advertised to have, and that already considering that every DP 1.2 monitor will support it, and thats not true, even Ryan said it, and having to get VESA support also supports that.

 

[Mand]

Indeed, it's not at all guaranteed that monitor manufacturers will accept RMAs just for a FreeSync update.

 

[SoulWager]

Changing gears a bit, is this the display AMD is using, and if so, does anyone have detailed technical information on the hardware inside it?

http://www.nixeus.com/?product=nixeus-vue-27d

 

[exar333]

I remember Ryan DID say that maybe some monitors gona support FreeSync with a firmware upgrade back there when they announced it, but keep in mind that you cant upgrade firmware on a monitor anyway. And i remember him saying that too.

funny that people again, belive in something that amd marketing said.

But I thought AMD was not out to make money and existed entirely for the 'little guy'? I learned that by reading all the posts here about AMD.

I kid, but AMD was smart in putting the word 'free' on the product name. Nothing is free, and this was obviously more of a 'demo' to just get their product goals out there rather than demonstrate real tech. I will give them a partial-pass for now, but if they don't have something actually working in the manner they are promising by EOY, you can probably count this tech either dead entirely or 2016+.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

The trolling in this thread is so sad. If you guys don't like free sync just go buy a gsync monitor and get the hell out of this thread.

Since you obviously won't mind being locked to nvidia hardware it should be no problem for you. In fact I would wager that nvidia will not support the full dp1.2a standard anyway so they can fleece their customers with gsync modules.

 

[96Firebird]

The trolling in this thread is so sad. If you guys don't like free sync just go buy a gsync monitor and get the hell out of this thread.

Today I learned discussing "Free-sync" and critiquing it's demo is now considered trolling.

And then I learned you think you have control over what people can post here...

 

[Stormflux]

While I agree it would be great to get actual Frame Time, Frame Rate numbers and if it is variable, people are being overly harsh on the actual efforts and timeframe AMD has going. And easy on Nvidia for some reason.

As someone who will be buying a GSync monitor, this is the oldest article I found (quickly) unveiling the tech (showing frame numbers too). October 18. Here we are, 9 months in July after this unveil where we can possibly buy an off-the-shelf solution. 7 months after CES where actual monitor manufacturers unveiled actual products. Too fucking long of a wait. I don't consider the modding an option due to voiding warranties.

AMDs efforts are broader in scope, and ultimately up to Monitor Manufacturers to implement, if it was ready for testing then yes, I expect it to be a purchasable product within 1-3 months.

My issue overall, this damn tech is taking too long to get here. I miss my CRTs...

 

[exar333]

The trolling in this thread is so sad. If you guys don't like free sync just go buy a gsync monitor and get the hell out of this thread.

Since you obviously won't mind being locked to nvidia hardware it should be no problem for you. In fact I would wager that nvidia will not support the full dp1.2a standard anyway so they can fleece their customers with gsync modules.

Let me say this again, how does anyone 'like' or 'not like' free-sync? IT DOESN'T EVEN EXIST. That is the whole point of the thread....nothing real was shown.

You can either get a G-sync product (and matching NV card) or wait a few years to see what AMD can produce and make-up your mind then. You can't compare a working product with a nonexistent one.

Getting upset is just juvenile...(I might argue someone else is the troll here....:whiste

 

[exar333]

Today I learned discussing "Free-sync" and critiquing it's demo is now considered trolling.

And then I learned you think you have control over what people can post here...

:thumbsup:

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Today I learned discussing "Free-sync" and critiquing it's demo is now considered trolling.

And then I learned you think you have control over what people can post here...

You can obviously discuss the demo, but there are a few who are basically just bashing amd about anything and everything including cpu's, marketing, and calling them outright liars when the demo is there and working.

Today I learned that people who refuse to realize their own bias choose to ignore trolling that has nothing to do with the thread topic because it supports their opinion.

 

[Mand]

You can obviously discuss the demo, but there are a few who are basically just bashing amd about anything and everything including cpu's, marketing, and calling them outright liars when the demo is there and working.

I called them liars when their CES demo didn't show what they said it was showing. It's looking more and more likely that this demo is a similar misrepresentation.

Sometimes, the harsh words are deserved. This is one of those times.

 

[Mand]

While I agree it would be great to get actual Frame Time, Frame Rate numbers and if it is variable, people are being overly harsh on the actual efforts and timeframe AMD has going. And easy on Nvidia for some reason.

As someone who will be buying a GSync monitor, this is the oldest article I found (quickly) unveiling the tech (showing frame numbers too). October 18. Here we are, 9 months in July after this unveil where we can possibly buy an off-the-shelf solution. 7 months after CES where actual monitor manufacturers unveiled actual products. Too fucking long of a wait. I don't consider the modding an option due to voiding warranties.

AMDs efforts are broader in scope, and ultimately up to Monitor Manufacturers to implement, if it was ready for testing then yes, I expect it to be a purchasable product within 1-3 months.

My issue overall, this damn tech is taking too long to get here. I miss my CRTs...

The 24" 1080p Asus display was available in January. So, that's one product out within 3 months.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I called them liars when their CES demo didn't show what they said it was showing. It's looking more and more likely that this demo is a similar misrepresentation.

Sometimes, the harsh words are deserved. This is one of those times.

Where has AMD outright claimed that their demo has fluctuating frame rates? In order to be lying they would have to say this demo is running at frame rates ranging from 30-60 fps and the refresh rate is matching perfectly. Since they haven't and are just showing that they can run existing monitors at whatever refresh rate the GPU tells it to run as a proof of concept they are not lying.

Journalists misreporting what they are seeing are the number one issue here.