AMD Demonstrates Prototype FreeSync Monitor

[3DVagabond]

And I can't fathom that.

Then enjoy yourself and troll away.

 

[SoulWager]

Free-Sync is AMD's feature that uses the Adaptive-Sync standard to allow dynamic refresh rate on monitors. What's the concern?

There are three concerns: That it performs as well as g-sync, that it will be available for purchase within AMD's predicted timeframe, and that it will be significantly less expensive than g-sync. I think AMD can accomplish two of those things at the same time, but it's not practical for them to do all three, at least not with a single product.

 

[Keysplayr]

Also that is isn't truly variable like they're making it out to be. It might be in their tiny scope of qualification, but not in real time actual gameplay. This is what I have the most problems with.
Say what it truly does. Not what it does in the tiniest of parameters that have no real value in real world gaming. That there will most likely NOT be firmware upgrades available for people that already have "qualified" monitors. So to have "FreeSync" is NOT as simple as a firmware update to your existing monitor. That monitors require no special hardware configurations seems unlikely as not all monitors can support this.
Lots and lots of little things that are hoped to pass under the public radar. Not happening here.

 

[BrightCandle]

There are three concerns: That it performs as well as g-sync, that it will be available for purchase within AMD's predicted timeframe, and that it will be significantly less expensive than g-sync. I think AMD can accomplish two of those things at the same time, but it's not practical for them to do all three, at least not with a single product.

From what we have seen so far it looks like cost isn't going to be a problem, the use of a Yamaski monitor without hardware changes is very promising. My discussions with Viewsonic also suggested that adaptive vsync is targeted for general controllers, its just not something the controller manufacturers are rushing into its just part of their general support for DP1.2a, the volumes are too low to make specific chips for it. So I think it will end up cheaper than the gsync module of today, but I also expect gsync to get cheaper as well once it stops being a fpga and moves to an asic.

The other two are more my concerns at this point and we have good reason to be concerned, we haven't seen a full demo of this yet and a lot of talk of having this in eDP, and so far they have shown what eDP is capable of, which is fixed HZ adjustments transparently but not on a frame by frame basis.

 

[Keysplayr]

Then enjoy yourself and troll away.

Oh I get it. Because you're being deliberately obtuse (you've been given several reasons throughout this thread to understand what the problem is) then I'm a troll? Gotcha.

 

[Keysplayr]

From what we have seen so far it looks like cost isn't going to be a problem, the use of a Yamaski monitor without hardware changes is very promising. My discussions with Viewsonic also suggested that adaptive vsync is targeted for general controllers, its just not something the controller manufacturers are rushing into its just part of their general support for DP1.2a, the volumes are too low to make specific chips for it. So I think it will end up cheaper than the gsync module of today, but I also expect gsync to get cheaper as well once it stops being a fpga and moves to an asic.

The other two are more my concerns at this point and we have good reason to be concerned, we haven't seen a full demo of this yet and a lot of talk of having this in eDP, and so far they have shown what eDP is capable of, which is fixed HZ adjustments transparently but not on a frame by frame basis.

Yes, the FCPGA design is expensive. That may change when redesigned as an ASIC.
And I share your concern about eDP. It's just another level of FUD to spread around making everyone think that is all that is needed.

 

[Creig]

It's fud to talk about something you cant show.
Up to know AMD wasn't able to show us Freesync with games. They needed 6 months to modify an existing monitor.

I dont care what you think but they haven't shown anything of their promises.

Dude, it's a P-R-O-T-O-T-Y-P-E. Who knows what technical, legal, logistic or supply issues they may encounter along the way in their effort to make this technology a reality.

They didn't "promise" you anything.

Get real.

 

[3DVagabond]

There are three concerns: That it performs as well as g-sync, that it will be available for purchase within AMD's predicted timeframe, and that it will be significantly less expensive than g-sync. I think AMD can accomplish two of those things at the same time, but it's not practical for them to do all three, at least not with a single product.

The first thing AMD had to do was get Adaptive-Sync added to the DP spec. They accomplished that.

Free-Sync is their driver feature that makes Adaptive-Sync do frame by frame variable vsync. They've successfully demonstrated that. (Some people are denying it, but those that have seen it say it works.)

Now we need the monitor manufacturers to adopt DP 1.2a. Contrary to what has been reported, I've read on Computerbase.de that there are manufacturers who are planning on releasing monitors that support it. The time frame reported is 1st Q 2015.

It really doesn't seem like there's anything to be concerned about. Just need to have some patience. It takes time and the standard was only added a few weeks ago. It's been 6 months since nVidia demonstrated G-Sync and even sold some add on kits. We still haven't seen a monitor released that natively supports it, but I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't believe it'll happen. Free-Sync isn't as far along in it's development, so it's no surprise we haven't seen monitors that support it yet and it shouldn't raise any concerns. It takes more time than a few months to go from concept to retail. Especially considering that an industry standard had to be developed first.

So far nothing AMD has said has proven to be false. They said that adding the eDP standard to desktop monitors was needed. VESA agrees. Read their press release about Adaptive-Sync. Vesa isn't a marketing arm of AMD. There's no reason to doubt the validity of what they say. AMD said that there are monitors already on the market that simply require a firmware update and no additional expensive hardware. They've now demonstrated that. The rest will happen too.

 

[Creig]

Also that is isn't truly variable like they're making it out to be. It might be in their tiny scope of qualification, but not in real time actual gameplay. This is what I have the most problems with.
Say what it truly does. Not what it does in the tiniest of parameters that have no real value in real world gaming. That there will most likely NOT be firmware upgrades available for people that already have "qualified" monitors. So to have "FreeSync" is NOT as simple as a firmware update to your existing monitor. That monitors require no special hardware configurations seems unlikely as not all monitors can support this.
Lots and lots of little things that are hoped to pass under the public radar. Not happening here.

As I already pointed out to sontin, this is a PROTOTYPE. It's simply a proof of concept. How about we wait until the final product is released and can be independently reviewed before we pass judgement on it?

AMD can't control whether or not monitor companies will issue firmware updates for FreeSync compatible monitors that may have already been sold. Maybe some will, maybe some won't. But ultimately that decision rests with the monitor manufacturers, not AMD.

Edit:

It would be really nice to see at least the model of monitor shown currently working to have its firmware update available upon official release of FreeSync.

 

[Leadbox]

So, Freesync works between 40-60Hz and the demo run within 47-48FPS.
With this information it is clear why they dont show a game...

It is the monitor that works at between 40-60 hz not freesync, it's an IPS panel
You're active over a CB can find out where they got their 47-48hz ?

 

[sontin]

Why should we wait when AMD have said that Freesync allows the same like G-Sync?

I expect from a prototype that it is able to show it. Fact is their Freesync implementation isn't able of variable frames. They need a very tide intervall for this - like videos.
However what they are showing is that desktop monitors are able to change the refresh rate seamlessly.

It is the monitor that works at between 40-60 hz not freesync
You're active over a CB can find out where they got their 47-48hz ?

Computerbase spoke to AMD.

 

[3DVagabond]

Also that is isn't truly variable like they're making it out to be. It might be in their tiny scope of qualification, but not in real time actual gameplay. This is what I have the most problems with.
Say what it truly does. Not what it does in the tiniest of parameters that have no real value in real world gaming. That there will most likely NOT be firmware upgrades available for people that already have "qualified" monitors. So to have "FreeSync" is NOT as simple as a firmware update to your existing monitor. That monitors require no special hardware configurations seems unlikely as not all monitors can support this.
Lots and lots of little things that are hoped to pass under the public radar. Not happening here.

You are misrepresenting what AMD is saying. AMD never said all monitors are capable of supporting it. AMD said they doubt the monitor manufacturers will update the firmware for existing monitors that people already own. In the end that isn't up to AMD though. They aren't marketing the monitors. You are saying it's not "truly variable", but those that have seen it say otherwise and so does VESA. VESA clearly states that the Adaptive-Sync feature allows variable vsync on a frame by frame basis. That's VESA's claim, not AMD's.

 

[3DVagabond]

Oh I get it. Because you're being deliberately obtuse (you've been given several reasons throughout this thread to understand what the problem is) then I'm a troll? Gotcha.

I wasn't being obtuse at all. You are just always looking for ulterior motives and meanings to some members posts. You were the one who was responding with one liners. That's why I said what I did. I'm more than willing to try and discuss it.

 

[SoulWager]

The first thing AMD had to do was get Adaptive-Sync added to the DP spec. They accomplished that.

Free-Sync is their driver feature that makes Adaptive-Sync do frame by frame variable vsync. They've successfully demonstrated that. (Some people are denying it, but those that have seen it say it works.)

This seems like a key point, so I'll ask: Who tested it, and did they actually see framerates throughout the whole 40-60 hz range AMD says the demo is capable of?

Now we need the monitor manufacturers to adopt DP 1.2a. Contrary to what has been reported by OCGuy, I've read on Computerbase.de that there are manufacturers who are planning on releasing monitors that support it. The time frame reported is 1st Q 2015.

1.2a just means it's using displayport. Adaptive-sync implementation needs to be explicitly confirmed, because it's not a mandatory part of displayport.

It really doesn't seem like there's anything to be concerned about. Just need to have some patience.

Time is one of the big concerns I mentioned. I don't think AMD can manage a cheap g-sync equivalent in the timeframe they mentioned, my guess is that they're sacrificing either performance or time in order to hit their price goals. Their 6-12 month timeframe is either unrealistic speculation, or this isn't going to even come close to g-sync for gaming. It would still be a damn good solution to fixed framerate content, like 24fps video.

It takes time and the standard was only added a few weeks ago. It's been 6 months since nVidia demonstrated G-Sync and even sold some add on kits. We still haven't seen a monitor released that natively supports it, but I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't believe it'll happen. Free-Sync isn't as far along in it's development, so it's no surprise we haven't seen monitors that support it yet and it shouldn't raise any concerns. It takes more time than a few months to go from concept to retail. Especially considering that an industry standard had to be developed first.

It was only a couple months between when g-sync was announced, and when various hardware reviewers published hands on reviews of the diy kit hardware. We haven't seen a similar test of freesync prototypes, and even the very first press conference with g-sync showed the tech working with an actual game.

So far nothing AMD has said has proven to be false. They said that adding the eDP standard to desktop monitors was needed. VESA agrees. Read their press release about Adaptive-Sync. Vesa isn't a marketing arm of AMD. There's no reason to doubt the validity of what they say. AMD said that there are monitors already on the market that simply require a firmware update and no additional expensive hardware. They've now demonstrated that. The rest will happen too.

The thing is, you kind of need to make testable claims for those claims to be proven false. If they claim their demonstration hardware can dynamically adjust refresh rate to match framerate, on a frame by frame basis, I expect AMD to send a demo unit to a third party reviewer with the ability to test that claim. I also don't know why you're ignoring the german article that said freesync mode at the computex demo was fixed between 47 and 48fps.

 

[Keysplayr]

I wasn't being obtuse at all. You are just always looking for ulterior motives and meanings to some members posts. You were the one who was responding with one liners. That's why I said what I did. I'm more than willing to try and discuss it.

No need to look for ulterior motives when I am slapped in the face with them.
When you acknowledge that FreeSync is being pushed as something it is not, then we can talk.

" I also don't know why you're ignoring the german article that said freesync mode at the computex demo was fixed between 47 and 48fps."

I don't know why either.

 

[Skurge]

The monitor, which was a hack job put together in a few weeks with no additional hardware has a small range. A monitor that fully supports a-sync will likely have a far wider range. Geez people. AMD said it was possible with eDP. They showed it. AMD said it would push for it to be a standard and they done just that. AMD said no expensive hardware changes are needed and they shown just that. This is all within a very short timespan.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Would be nice if they demonstrated it on a video player that was not limited to 30 FPS.

 

[Mand]

So far nothing AMD has said has proven to be false.

That's utterly ludicrous. At their CES demo they said it was showing variable refresh, and it wasn't. Directly false, PROVABLY false, by looking at the actual video of their actual demo.

Coming out with new information now does not mean their prior information wasn't false.

 

[96Firebird]

Is it so much to ask for a demo that shows FPS of the actual rendering (or video, or whatever the windmill is)? Seems like a logical thing to do. Have the a-sync monitor next to the fixed-refresh rate monitor, allow the rendering to vary between 40FPS and 60FPS, show the FPS with on-screen display, and allow the viewer to experience it. I don't think that is so much to ask for, when demonstrating a tech like this.

 

[blackened23]

AMD's full on hype, half truth based marketing will never change. Yawn. What AMD essentially showed was nothing worthwhile and nothing to get excited about.

Can this company, just for once, fire their entire marketing team and put that money towards something useful like software development. Something that AMD truly needs. Instead of the hype and mistruth based marketing team that they seem to throw millions at. For all the mistakes nvidia made with their Titan Z marketing, their g-sync marketing was done right. Not a word was uttered until it was done and fully review-able by actual objective review websites. There were no questions left uncovered because reviewers were given full access to see for themselves. What AMD is doing here is far the opposite. Hype. Half truth. Hope for the future. Something they continually do, and it's just nauseating. They're doing the same with their mobile beema, mullins, and mobile kaveri: dictating what benchmarks websites can use and the most important obvious information, battery life, is not allowed to be shared. Nevermind that these products wont' be on shelves probably for 5-6 months, as was the case with the A8-7600 Kaveri APU. Which is still MIA BTW after having been reviewed MONTHS ago. Hype based on a product that doesn't exist. And then you have the Watch Dogs marketing blurb by Robert Hallock which consisted of outright lies. This company really is unbelievable marketing wise and they're doing the same crap with free-sync. Nauseating.

 

[showb1z]

The monitor, which was a hack job put together in a few weeks with no additional hardware has a small range. A monitor that fully supports a-sync will likely have a far wider range. Geez people. AMD said it was possible with eDP. They showed it. AMD said it would push for it to be a standard and they done just that. AMD said no expensive hardware changes are needed and they shown just that. This is all within a very short timespan.

That's exactly what everyone's problem is. They didn't show that it was possible at all. All they've shown so far are displays running at a fixed refresh rate. The only thing they have to do is run fraps while running their demo, so we can have that nice big yellow fps counter that shows that the framerate is variable instead of fixed. I think that's not a tall order at all.
But for some reason they're allowing this ambiguity.

 

[Mand]

You are misrepresenting what AMD is saying. AMD never said all monitors are capable of supporting it. AMD said they doubt the monitor manufacturers will update the firmware for existing monitors that people already own. In the end that isn't up to AMD though. They aren't marketing the monitors. You are saying it's not "truly variable", but those that have seen it say otherwise and so does VESA. VESA clearly states that the Adaptive-Sync feature allows variable vsync on a frame by frame basis. That's VESA's claim, not AMD's.

VESA claims DP 1.2 supports 4k displays, and the monitor on my desk has a 1.2 plug but isn't 4k.

You are misinterpreting what the VESA spec actually says. It is what A-Sync will look like when implemented, not that all implementations of it at any stage of prototype development are actually capable of it.

Until we actually have proof of frame-by-frame variable refresh (which I *THOUGHT* this was showing but now am beginning to doubt, based on the reports from press), I will remain deeply skeptical of AMD's claims based on their history of deception and outright lying from the very start.

And no, this is not just AMD-bashing. Read my posts earlier in the thread, I was ready to accept this as legit when I first saw it. Now, I'm beginning to suspect that this is yet another round of half-truths and half-baked presentations designed to wow people who don't look too closely but won't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[Mand]

That's exactly what everyone's problem is. They didn't show that it was possible at all. All they've shown so far are displays running at a fixed refresh rate. The only thing they have to do is run fraps while running their demo, so we can have that nice big yellow fps counter that shows that the framerate is variable instead of fixed. I think that's not a tall order at all.
But for some reason they're allowing this ambiguity.

I don't think it's a tall order either. Especially since it's exactly what Nvidia's demo did, and if they claim to be a competitor in this tech, then they should be able to repeat the results. Or shut up about it, until they can.

 

[SoulWager]

That's exactly what everyone's problem is. They didn't show that it was possible at all. All they've shown so far are displays running at a fixed refresh rate. The only thing they have to do is run fraps while running their demo, so we can have that nice big yellow fps counter that shows that the framerate is variable instead of fixed. I think that's not a tall order at all.
But for some reason they're allowing this ambiguity.

That's not ALL they have to demonstrate, but it would be a great first step. The latency claims in particular require extra hardware to measure.

 

[Wild Thing]

AMD's full on hype, half truth based marketing will never change. Yawn. What AMD essentially showed was nothing worthwhile and nothing to get excited about.

Can this company, just for once, fire their entire marketing team and put that money towards something useful like software development. Something that AMD truly needs. Instead of the hype and mistruth based marketing team that they seem to throw millions at. For all the mistakes nvidia made with their Titan Z marketing, their g-sync marketing was done right. Not a word was uttered until it was done and fully review-able by actual objective review websites. There were no questions left uncovered because reviewers were given full access to see for themselves. What AMD is doing here is far the opposite. Hype. Half truth. Hope for the future. Something they continually do, and it's just nauseating. They're doing the same with their mobile beema, mullins, and mobile kaveri: dictating what benchmarks websites can use and the most important obvious information, battery life, is not allowed to be shared. Nevermind that these products wont' be on shelves probably for 5-6 months, as was the case with the A8-7600 Kaveri APU. Which is still MIA BTW after having been reviewed MONTHS ago. Hype based on a product that doesn't exist. And then you have the Watch Dogs marketing blurb by Robert Hallock which consisted of outright lies. This company really is unbelievable marketing wise and they're doing the same crap with free-sync. Nauseating.

Do you have a list of the G-sync capable monitors available?
I'd like to see what sizes and panel types are using it so far.
Which of them have IPS not TN for example?