Discussion AMD Cezanne/Zen 3 APU Speculation and Discussion

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dr1337

Senior member
May 25, 2020
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Fresh leak out today, not much is known but at least 8cu's is confirmed. Probably an engineering sample, core count is unknown and clocks may not be final.

This is very interesting to me because cezanne is seemingly 8cu only, and it seems unlikely to me that AMD could squeeze any more performance out of vega. A cpu only upgrade of renoir may be lackluster compared to tigerlake's quite large GPU.

What do you guys think? Will zen 3 be a large enough improvement in APU form? Will it have full cache? Are there more than 8cus? Has AMD truly evolved vega yet again or is it more like rdna?
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Well i did not focus on mining, it has to be like double of that when you factor in the memory power use, but when i saw the the 25W i actually got worried there, because mining speed is affected by a lot of things, for example overlocking the memory on the 5700G results on negative gains, what means it is also highly affected by timings. That and since no one cares about APU mining (phoenix miner is the only one that supports APUs), im petty sure it is not optimised at all. The 5600G was mining at 4MH/s with 4x8GB rams and it is likely to be faster on linux.

Now, this actually made me worry about RMB and the Steam Deck, the Steam Deck may draw a lot of attention to APU mining.
 
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Asterox

Golden Member
May 15, 2012
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Believe it or not, it's a reality HP has completely lost its brain.Great idea, OEM Cezanne APU PC with motherboard that dont suport iGPU.Huh, does HP really think people are fools. :grimacing:


Here are the specific models, and they are sold in Croatia and Slovenia.First class headache, R5 5600G and R7 5700G HP PC with installed GT 710 2GB ddr3.No luck for the Vega 8 or 7 iGPU, luckily there’s a GT 710 to brighten up the gamer’s cheek.

I haven't seen a more absurd or pointless PC/OEM PC configuration in a long time.



I’m not sure, maybe it’s just an episode of Twilight Zone after all.:grinning:

2021-08-05_143328.jpg
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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Believe it or not, it's a reality HP has completely lost its brain.Great idea, OEM Cezanne APU PC with motherboard that dont suport iGPU.Huh, does HP really think people are fools. :grimacing:


Here are the specific models, and they are sold in Croatia and Slovenia.First class headache, R5 5600G and R7 5700G HP PC with installed GT 710 2GB ddr3.No luck for the Vega 8 or 7 iGPU, luckily there’s a GT 710 to brighten up the gamer’s cheek.

I haven't seen a more absurd or pointless PC/OEM PC in a long time.



I’m not sure, maybe it’s just an episode of Twilight Zone after all.:grinning:

View attachment 48284

What the actual heck? Leave the great integrated graphics sitting idle, and put in a 5 year old GPU that was trash even when it was new?
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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Maybe HP got a deal and the GPU is defective?
Selling the CPU with the same SKU would me mighty complicated from a legal point of view.

They're probably selling these systems in many dGPU configs and have a custom mobo that's saving pennies by not including components needed for integrated graphics. Those slow GT710 cards were probably eating storage space somewhere anyway, so why bother with another motherboard design?! :smilingimp:
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
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www.teamjuchems.com
As long as the computer specs say that it doesn't support the IGP it shouldn't be an issue.

He was addressing the thought that maybe the iGPU in these systems was defective and AMD was giving them a real deal to move them, perhaps. Hence the placement in a board with no ports and the addition of a dedicated GPU.

In which case they wouldn't truly be 5600G processors, so on and so forth.
 
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blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
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Right but the customer in this case is really HP. They are obviously aware.

Right, but it's likely a non-trivial amount of these will be pulled and sold on secondary channels. Then a bunch of 5600G's with nonfunctional IGPs would be a PR nightmare.

If it was a 5600G with a non-functional IGP they would give it another name/model number.

Even for keeping track of it through their (AMD and HPs integration) supply chain it would make sense to create a larger degree of separation between SKUs with vastly different capabilities.
 

Asterox

Golden Member
May 15, 2012
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As long as the computer specs say that it doesn't support the IGP it shouldn't be an issue.

Well it does not, and this is official dealer of HP OEM computers in Croatia."It is not listed anywhere on this page, that Ryzen 5 5600G iGPU is disabled or that it cannot be used."


It's very simple, any knowledgeable person or salesperson will immediately notice that this is a very strangely configured computer.Knowledgeable person or salesperson, they really know what it looks like or how the various AMD Desktop Ryzen APU models are labeled.

Pair any AMD Ryzen Desktop APU with Nvidia GT 710 2GB ddr3=pointless.In that situation, you immediately wonder hm what kind of nonsense is this. :mask:
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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Right, but it's likely a non-trivial amount of these will be pulled and sold on secondary channels. Then a bunch of 5600G's with nonfunctional IGPs would be a PR nightmare.

Is that really AMD or HP's problem? What would really be wild is that it's one of those where it might have the IGP intact, maybe not.

I've seen a few Intel laptops that included a dGPU that I suspect the IGP was fused off.
 

KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
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That nonsense reminds of this AIO from way back when which had a 8400GS which went solder-defect. Nothing new, but it was on an MXM card and the motherboard had graphics on board (Intel GMA950 or something only a bit slower than the 8400GS). Now you'd think, take out the faulty MXM card and it would default to the onboard?
No way!

Not sure if that a flaw in the motherboard or an oversight on the MXM spec (Nvidia probably never cared for IGP), but since MXM cards were crazy expensive and BIOS support too much of a gamble all the salvagably parts went to a new machine. Pity, the screen was nice (at the time).
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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You suspect?! As in you speculate?

Yeah. Mainly ones with a dGPU but Optimus/etc is not enabled and didn't see anything obvious as to why. Other than Cannonlake (heh) Intel hasn't had an official IGP-less mobile model but you figure they have to be using the defective ones somehow. It's not a big deal.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
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These HP units being sold in Croatia and Slovenia can be tested assuming any one cares to buy a few and pull the APUs to test them on proper boards.

Frankly it doesn't seem worth the effort. The sanest view is that HP gets a better price on the 5600G than a 5600X for example so that is what they use. NBD.

Going with the simplest explanation (profits) is the easiest.
 
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Asterox

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May 15, 2012
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These HP units being sold in Croatia and Slovenia can be tested assuming any one cares to buy a few and pull the APUs to test them on proper boards.

I found one HP PC in Norway, a little different configuration but again Hana motherboard=iGPU is not suported.Merke hovedkort=Brand motherboard, Hana.


R7 5700G+RTX 3060TI, but for gaming it again makes very little sense.R5 5600G is cheaper/beeter option, if HP already has no problems with simliar drunk PC configurations. :grinning:
 

Asterox

Golden Member
May 15, 2012
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I assume you mean 5600X. Who knows what they are actually paying for it.

Well, you can use R5 5600X in the same configuration.

But R5 5600G is cheeper, or the wholesale purchase price for OEM manufacturers.

When it comes to prices, R5 5600G on paper is minimal 260$ or euro.In reality or for example in Croatia, starting price is 302euro or 102euro more expensive vs R5 4650G. :grimacing:


R7 5700G, same price as R7 5800X or around 418euro.

 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Huh, i didnt expect that kind of large sales figures for Cezanne APU. :mask:

Well, the APU DiY market was dried up first, we went for more than a year with Picasso petty much MIA, specially the 3400G, Renoir never officially released to DIY other that some OEM parts that got to it. On top of that, there is the dGPU prices and stock nonsence.

There is a HUGE demand for new APUs right now, and its going to be even bigger next year when they will start coming with "good enoght 1080p". Can AMD keep on with the demand? well see. As i said, they did a worldwide launch to the point even 3rd world countries recibed stock ahead of time for the launch yesterday, that is not a common thing, last time they did that was with Picasso.
 
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Shivansps

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Keep in mind, there's no need for their N7 parts to dip too low in the market. AMD has a quad core Zen2 based APU on 12LP coming from GF real soon now. No idea on the GPU side of it, but, it would be real gracious of them to include an at least 8CU VEGA section on it. The 48EU version of Xe in the low end Tiger Lake parts is notably better than the Vega 3 iGPU in Dali/Raven2.

There is a Linux driver patch that points out to a new AMD APU (AMD Cyan Skillfish) with a RDNA1 IGP, that looks like the new Athlon to me. Now, why use RDNA1 when they are already making RDNA2 apus i have no idea. A 4C/8T with 6 RDNA1 CUs looks good to me to replace Dali. Keep in mind that RMB is likely to come in 12,10 and 8CU SKUs.
 
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Insert_Nickname

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May 6, 2012
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When it comes to prices, R5 5600G on paper is minimal 260$ or euro.In reality or for example in Croatia, starting price is 302euro or 102euro more expensive vs R5 4650G. :grimacing:

R7 5700G, same price as R7 5800X or around 418euro.

I don't know what to say. Here both are cheaper then their X counterparts:

5600G vs. 5600X


5700G vs. 5800X


You seem to have some scalping going on...