AMD Catalyst 10.9

[thedosbox]

I don't think he's necessarily pro-Nvidia. He's enraged at AMD for what he considers are shortcomings in their product.

That would be fine if he didn't have a nice bolded "don't buy AMD/ATI" troll at the bottom of his post.

Just because Nvidia screwed up doesn't make it right for AMD to do so.

I've never owned a AMD chipset, but it seems the problems he's describing are far less serious than the data corruption I (and many others) experienced with nvidia chipsets.

IMO, if someone is looking for stability, they should be buying Intel

 

[lopri]

I don't think he's necessarily pro-Nvidia. He's enraged at AMD for what he considers are shortcomings in their product. Just because Nvidia screwed up doesn't make it right for AMD to do so.

That is correct, but then again he is telling others' not to purchase AMD products based on his limited experience. That would be a sound advice, if he had enough experiences on AMD chipsets and competing products to make such a general judgment. Maybe he does, but if so he might want to qualify himself better so that his opinion gets more weight. (Screaming doesn't help, unfortunately)

What I find strange is that I saw him talking about this months ago, and he is still on AMD platform. (all while telling others to avoid AMD) If I was him I would have moved onto something else already.. or maybe not. The other side isn't any greener, either. There is the same 29/59 bug on Clarkdale platform (forget G35/G45), and it has even more issues than the AMD GPUs if you are really really picky about image/playback quality, as he seems to be. And to be frank I don't think this 29/59 can be blamed on AMD/Intel/NV's drivers. The blame is likely to be on Comcast, Verizon, Timewarner, and maybe Motorola. (and possibly DRM)

Same goes for the AHCI thing. What he says/experiences, while I do believe him, is opposite of what I experience (and what reviews say). I am thinking his motherboard might be to blame - not all boards are the same at handling disks even though they are based on the same chipsets. But what is strange is - if MS AHCI drivers fixed issues for him why wouldn't he stay with it? It's not like AMD is forcing him to use its AHCI drivers..

CoolVariable: Just out of curiosity, what motherboard are you using? Have you by any chance tried a board from a different vendor, based on different chipset? (e.g. Gigabyte SB710 -> ASUS SB850, etc.)

 

[Bateluer]

Want to get back to the 10.9 discussion and ignore the troll?

Games I tested 10.9 on work just as well as before, that is to say, flawlessly. Haven't tested Fallout 3, wasn't stable before, but I think thats a problem with Fallout 3 and Bethesda.

 

[Jovec]

I ran an AHCI test on my last fresh installs using CrystalDiskMark 3.0 x64. Seems like a near even split for wins between the two. The results should be valid for a wide range of Cat versions since AMD hasn't updated their AHCI in over a year IIRC. Trim support is missing, but matters very little with the preformance so close between the MS and AMD drivers.

However, my 4650 and 5670 both experience the HDMI issue - sometimes there is no audio when returning from sleep.


Win7-64, Cat 10.6, Samsung 500GB, SB750

                            MS AHCI                   AMD AHCI
---------------           ----------                 -----------
Sequential Read           77.096 MB/s                80.480 MB/s
Sequential Write          73.378 MB/s                72.201 MB/s
Random Read 512KB         37.226 MB/s                36.910 MB/s
Random Write 512KB        41.881 MB/s                43.316 MB/s
Random Read  4KB (QD=1)   0.554 MB/s [135.2 IOPS]    0.539 MB/s [131.5 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=1)   0.580 MB/s [141.5 IOPS]    0.937 MB/s [228.8 IOPS]
Random Read  4KB (QD=32)  0.879 MB/s [214.6 IOPS]    0.678 MB/s [165.5 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=32)  0.926 MB/s [226.1 IOPS]    0.852 MB/s [208.0 IOPS]

Win7-64, Cat 10.6, WD Cavier Black 640GB, SB850

                            MS AHCI                   AMD AHCI
---------------           ----------                 -----------
Sequential Read           116.950 MB/s               117.068 MB/s
Sequential Write          112.015 MB/s               109.845 MB/s
Random Read 512KB         42.132 MB/s                45.590 MB/s
Random Write 512KB        67.053 MB/s                65.400 MB/s
Random Read  4KB (QD=1)   0.502 MB/s [122.5 IOPS]    0.573 MB/s [139.9 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=1)   1.304 MB/s [318.3 IOPS]    1.364 MB/s [333.0 IOPS]
Random Read  4KB (QD=32)  1.529 MB/s [373.4 IOPS]    1.450 MB/s [353.9 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=32)  1.452 MB/s [354.6 IOPS]    1.360 MB/s [332.0 IOPS]

 

[coolVariable]

I ran an AHCI test on my last fresh installs using CrystalDiskMark 3.0 x64. Seems like a near even split for wins between the two. The results should be valid for a wide range of Cat versions since AMD hasn't updated their AHCI in over a year IIRC. Trim support is missing, but matters very little with the preformance so close between the MS and AMD drivers.

However, my 4650 and 5670 both experience the HDMI issue - sometimes there is no audio when returning from sleep.


Win7-64, Cat 10.6, Samsung 500GB, SB750

                            MS AHCI                   AMD AHCI
---------------           ----------                 -----------
Sequential Read           77.096 MB/s                80.480 MB/s
Sequential Write          73.378 MB/s                72.201 MB/s
Random Read 512KB         37.226 MB/s                36.910 MB/s
Random Write 512KB        41.881 MB/s                43.316 MB/s
Random Read  4KB (QD=1)   0.554 MB/s [135.2 IOPS]    0.539 MB/s [131.5 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=1)   0.580 MB/s [141.5 IOPS]    0.937 MB/s [228.8 IOPS]
Random Read  4KB (QD=32)  0.879 MB/s [214.6 IOPS]    0.678 MB/s [165.5 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=32)  0.926 MB/s [226.1 IOPS]    0.852 MB/s [208.0 IOPS]

Win7-64, Cat 10.6, WD Cavier Black 640GB, SB850

                            MS AHCI                   AMD AHCI
---------------           ----------                 -----------
Sequential Read           116.950 MB/s               117.068 MB/s
Sequential Write          112.015 MB/s               109.845 MB/s
Random Read 512KB         42.132 MB/s                45.590 MB/s
Random Write 512KB        67.053 MB/s                65.400 MB/s
Random Read  4KB (QD=1)   0.502 MB/s [122.5 IOPS]    0.573 MB/s [139.9 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=1)   1.304 MB/s [318.3 IOPS]    1.364 MB/s [333.0 IOPS]
Random Read  4KB (QD=32)  1.529 MB/s [373.4 IOPS]    1.450 MB/s [353.9 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=32)  1.452 MB/s [354.6 IOPS]    1.360 MB/s [332.0 IOPS]

Your system is probably so slow, you will never ever notice driver-caused performance slowdowns. Use an SSD and you will notice that the AMD AHCI drivers are 10-30% slower than the generic MS drivers. When the AMD drivers cap out at ~170MB/s and the generic drivers go up to 200+ MB/s after you just spent $200 for an SSD, you will rightly be PISSED OFF!
The lack of TRIM will even further constrain performance.

For the HDMI issue there is a tiny program (HDMIon) that will run in the background and will re-initate the HDMI connection upon resume (solving the blackscreen and audio issues). The pathetic part? It's so easy to fix this issue but AMD seems to be unable to replicate what this (and other) little program does.

Based on the latest reports newer intel IGPs do not experience any stuttering with the 29/59 bug. Yes - the newer intel IGPs do not stutter where the latest and greatest AMD/ATI GPU chokes. Embarrassing!

And to the trolls: I would love to switch my AMD HTPC to intel. Are you going to buy me a new system or at least mainboard + CPU? You can have my old stuff in return (Athlon 64 X2 5050e + AsRock A790GMH/128).

If I had known about these problems before, I certainly would have NOT bought AMD. Sadly, there are plenty of MORONIC IDIOTS running around and saying that there are no issues, problems or bugs!


PS: Almost forgot - since these bugs have been known for 2+ years and are still unfixed:

DO NOT BUY AMD/ATI!

 

[lopri]

Athlon 64 X2 5050e + AsRock A790GMH/128

Well, I see what you've got there. And I can easily imagine a performance issue right there. Maybe not entirely, but your IGP performance is severely hindered by the 5050e. I assume the 5050e is Brisbane, which is a pre-Phenom CPU, and it HT Link only goes up to 1.0 GHz. Lower HyperTransport frequency severely impacts IGP performance, which I observed myself with a 4050e. I believe AMD also made official that HD acceleration would be supported for HT 3.0 CPUs. (I will see if I can find a link)

 

[lopri]

That was easy enough.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2475/2

HyperTransport 3.0 capability (5.2GT/s+ interface) is included and is extremely important in extracting every last ounce of performance out of the HD 3200 graphics core. AMD recommends the Phenom processor family (Ed: not just to sell out stocks of B2 processors) in order to fully take advantage of the performance offered by the HD 3200. With a Phenom onboard, the HD 3200 will perform post-processing on high-definition content and it makes a difference in image quality and fluidity during 1080p playback. In fact, the graphics core is so sensitive to the HT interconnect link speed that simply raising the standard 1.8GHz speed to 2.2GHz on our 9600BE resulted in measurable performance differences in a few applications.

Unfortunately you made a wrong choice of CPU. Something like a 7750BE (which used to sell for $60) would have made a vast difference in IGP performance.

Edit: And might as well make this post longer so you can adjust expectations. I've dealt with four 780/785G boards and two i3-530's, and they are both capable for the majority of HTPC duties. My nod still goes to i3's, but not for the reasons you've brought up. They are good enough, run cooler and quieter than AMD setups, and make smaller form factor possible. Plus bitstreaming capability. Up-front cost might be a bit higher but in my opinion it's worthwhile. However, based on your posts I am not sure whether you will be happy with it. It still has issues with 3:5 pulldown, 29/59 (yes), repeater mode can be a hit or miss, and so can bitstreaming depending on the software and titles. You will have also trouble configuring advanced filters if the drivers don't like them. And it may not matter much to many, AMD/NV's IGPs do 2560x1600. I haven't seen any i3/i5 board that does higher than 1920x1200 (digital). The point is that both AMD and Intel setups have issues, and you will find plenty of people complaining on both. You're making a mountain out of molehill.

 

[Phynaz]

Rant about chipset drivers

Why are you posting all this in a thread about video drivers? There's a motherboard forum right above this one.

 

[Idontcare]

Please keep it on-topic folks. This is VC&G...not about chipset driver issues.

A few of you have tried to get it back on track. Thank you.

Moderator Idontcare

 

[TurtleCrusher]

10.8 made my card artifact to death. Change back to 10.6 and voila!

 

[coolVariable]

Please keep it on-topic folks. This is VC&G...not about chipset driver issues.

A few of you have tried to get it back on track. Thank you.

Moderator Idontcare

It is on topic, since chipset drivers are part of the catalyst driver package - unless you want to move the whole topic into general tech?
Also, 2 of the 4 "ignored issues" are absolutely video related: black screen on resume and 29/59 stuttering.


Debating the quality of AHCI in the VC&G forum is questionable...take it to memory and storage forum where a larger audience of AHCI experts are available to engage.

Infusing this thread with thread-crapping posts "Do not buy AMD" combined with a mod-challenge "It is on topic" to top it all off is most definitely a thread-derail.

I count 3 infractions right there...are you done yet? (answer that in pm, not publicly, no more public debate on the topic in this thread)

edit: just to be clear I am not awarding you any infractions here, just pointing out that you are way out of bounds here and it needs to stop immediately.

Moderator Idontcare

 

[alexruiz]

... Use an SSD and you will notice that the AMD AHCI drivers are 10-30% slower than the generic MS drivers. When the AMD drivers cap out at ~170MB/s and the generic drivers go up to 200+ MB/s after you just spent $200 for an SSD, you will rightly be PISSED OFF! ...

As far back as cat 10.3, I was benching at 231 MB/sec read with an SSD and ATI / AMD AHCI


CrystalDiskMark 3.0 x64 Beta3 (C) 2007-2010 hiyohiyo
Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
---------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s=1,000,000bytes/sec [SATA/300=300,000,000bytes/sec]
.....
Sequential Read : 231.653 MB/s
......
Test : 1000 MB [C: Used 66.0% (28.4/43.0 GB)] (x5)
Date : 2010/04/23 15:39:28
OS : Windows 7 Ultimate Edition [6.1 Build 7600] (x64)

 

[Mistwalker]

Uninstalled 10.7s, rebooted, installed the 10.9 hotfix drivers (4870x2 fix), rebooted, and suddenly got the Aero slowdown where every window opens and resizes in slow motion. Very weird.

Uninstalled the 10.9s, this time used Driver Sweeper, reinstalled, everything is running smooth. My first speed bump updating Catalyst drivers (maybe because they're the beta hotfix package?) but at least it was quickly resolved.

 

[Qbah]

Okay, I found one issue. Every time I do a fresh restart, the HDTV is horribly overscanned (I think it's called like that?). The windows go way past the TV's borders when I do fullscreen. To fix it I have to enter CCC once and then a proper setting sticks. I don't have to do anything inside CCC, just enter it once. No big deal though.

 

[Number1]

Okay, I found one issue. Every time I do a fresh restart, the HDTV is horribly overscanned (I think it's called like that?). The windows go way past the TV's borders when I do fullscreen. To fix it I have to enter CCC once and then a proper setting sticks. I don't have to do anything inside CCC, just enter it once. No big deal though.

I had the same problem with 10.8 and 10.9
My HDTV is under scanned when i first turn it on but if I just start CCC it immediately goes to the proper setting. Same scenario when I turn the TV off and then back on.
No big deal but annoying as hell.

 

[Qbah]

I had the same problem with 10.8 and 10.9
My HDTV is under scanned when i first turn it on but if I just start CCC it immediately goes to the proper setting. Same scenario when I turn the TV off and then back on.
No big deal but annoying as hell.

Hmm, I was running 10.8 before that and didn't get this... It showed up only after I installed 10.9. Weird.

Luckily I do not turn off my computer at all, just put it to sleep. The issue doesn't show up after I wake my computer from sleep. So not really annoying for me. Though I do hope they fix that in the end.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Uninstalled 10.7s, rebooted, installed the 10.9 hotfix drivers (4870x2 fix), rebooted, and suddenly got the Aero slowdown where every window opens and resizes in slow motion. Very weird.

Uninstalled the 10.9s, this time used Driver Sweeper, reinstalled, everything is running smooth. My first speed bump updating Catalyst drivers (maybe because they're the beta hotfix package?) but at least it was quickly resolved.

I've been updating cats every month since 8.7 or so and never uninstalled any previous driver before upgrading. No problems so far.

 

[Phynaz]

Qbah, do you have ccc running on startup?

 

[Chiropteran]

Noticed my mouse pointer went corrupt in sc2 last night using this driver. Only happened once though out of probably 20+ games, and minimizing and restoring seemed to fix it. I've seen this happen before with other older drivers, it happens so rarely I couldn't really say if any driver version fixed it. Not overclocked at all when this occurred.

 

[Qbah]

Qbah, do you have ccc running on startup?

Yes, I do. The icon is always there on tray.

I have also noticed another issue, in Dawn of War 2 : Chaos Rising. Sometimes the textures flicker and blink a lot for the first 15-20 seconds into a mission. After a few moments the anomaly stops and the game looks fine. I happens once in a while after starting a mission and just at the very beginning of it. I was playing this game a lot on Cat 10.8s and this wasn't happening at all. Though, again, this happens at the very start and usually stops before the engine cut-scene at the beginning of a mission stops. Sometimes a few seconds into actually issuing commands to your space marines and scrolling the screen. And it always stops after a moment. So it's not really something bothersome or annoying either.

 

[Obsoleet]

I'm having best results with the 10.7s. But will probably make a jump when the 10.10s are here.

 

[spinejam]

10.9 works fine for me so far. 10.8 was ok too!

 

[Rhezuss]

I'm still on 10.5a (a or b...can't remember) on my Vapor-X HD 5770...
Should I go 10.9 now?

 

[Chiropteran]

I'm still on 10.5a (a or b...can't remember) on my Vapor-X HD 5770...
Should I go 10.9 now?

If nothing is broken, don't fix it. Unless you just feel like messing around, or there is a specific addition in the newer driver.

 

[Rhezuss]

If nothing is broken, don't fix it. Unless you just feel like messing around, or there is a specific addition in the newer driver.

I understand why you say this, but I only had issues upgrading Catalyst with the 9.9 I think. I started with the 9.7 and i'm up to 10.5 and never had issues since.

I'll check more reviews and see!