AMD Bristol/Stoney Ridge Thread

[DrMrLordX]

6W? Would like to see that in a gaming handheld.

Nintendo could have used something like this, but apparently they wanted a custom Tegra instead.

 

[Dresdenboy]

AMD already has <=7W embedded APUs based on low clocked Puma cores and older GPU tech, thus kind of outdated. But there definitely is a market.

 

[NostaSeronx]

We have 4.5W and 6W from Intel and now 6W from AMD.

There was a couple <4.5W SKUs from AMD like;
E1 Micro-6200T => 1.4 GHz Dual-core @ 3.95W
A4 Micro-6400T => 1.0 GHz Quad-core @ 4.5W
A10 Micro-6700T => 1.2 GHz Quad-core @ 4.5W

 

[hojnikb]

those all had crappy cat cores, so excavator even at 1.6Ghz (and i bet they can do boost to something like 2-2.2Ghz) should be an upgrade.

 

[Shehriazad]

I really hope DIY Bristol comes soonish...one of my machiens is currently in the process of falling apart. (1 ram slot 100% broken, the other one starting to act up .)

I would love getting my hands on a proper Zen-ready board in preparation as I always try to have a machine from Intel AND one from AMD....but Im not willing to buy into FM2+ or AM3+ today.

 

[Dresdenboy]

those all had crappy cat cores, so excavator even at 1.6Ghz (and i bet they can do boost to something like 2-2.2Ghz) should be an upgrade.

It even seems that the Cat cores don't lose per IPC (roughly equal in CB), but per clock frequency/power at somewhat higher clocks. 1.6GHz is already ca. 70% of max. Cat core clocks, while only being 40% of max BR clocks at reasonable voltages.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, Cat cores weren't bad, they just didn't clock very high. It would have been cool to seem an AM1 14nm refresh, TBH. I wonder where they could have gone with that. If they could have fabbed some 4.0Ghz Cat cores, that would have been wild.

 

[laamanaator]

Yeah, Cat cores weren't bad, they just didn't clock very high. It would have been cool to seem an AM1 14nm refresh, TBH. I wonder where they could have gone with that. If they could have fabbed some 4.0Ghz Cat cores, that would have been wild.

A 14nm AM1 refresh wouldn't have made any sense, because excavator reached better perf/watt than puma and excavator clocks much higher.

 

[cbn]

I think AMD made the right choice by focusing on OEM for Bristol Ridge desktop and let the DIY have the excess Kaveri/Godavari.

One reason is that DIYers will use DDR3 2133 and DDR3 2400 while the OEMs won't....and another is that OEMs traditionally have worse than expected AMD desktop pricing compared to Intel (so OEM getting all the BR chips here probably made the most sense).

Some additional points:

1. Kaveri/Godavari CPU can be faster in gaming than Bristol Ridge CPU (re: greater L2 cache and in the case of Athlon x 4 860K vs Athlon x 4 950 greater clockspeed).
2. AM4 B350 doesn't look like it really offers much over FM2+. If wanting to use Zen eventually a I'll bet a DIYer would want to wait for X370 or X300 motherboards anyway.
3. BR does have better bandwidth efficiency than KV/GV but if a DIYer is really serious about graphics they are likely to use a add in card anyway (then the KV/GV user can get H265 and VP9 ). Furthermore, discounted KV/GV + FM2+ dGPU might have been priced very close to BR APU + B350. (Some examples of the discounted FM2+ DIY pricing here and here and here).

With that mentioned, I think it would have been even better to see AMD fully focused on 35W BR Mobile (ie, BGA for laptops, AIO desktops, etc) rather than see some of the BR APU dies get converted to 65W AM4. It does looks like they made an attempt to do that but for whatever reason it didn't work. Perhaps better labeling (via some kind of "gaming clock" addition) of BR 35W BGA APUs would have helped OEMs make the 35W choice? This due to the thought of consumers having a better chance to realize the distinction between 35W and 15W BGA APUs?

 

[cbn]

Regarding Linux desktop (Firefox) browser builds which IMHO would use Bristol Ridge A6-9500 (3.5 Ghz/3.8 Ghz dual core with 384sp) at the minimum ( and perhaps even A9 Stoney Ridge at 25W cTDP) I do wonder what the hardware decoder support will be like with the AMD Open driver? This because starting with Ubuntu 16.04 the proprietary driver has been dropped and I have not yet personally seen either DX11 VLIW5, VLIW 4 or GCN 1.0 support H.264 in Youtube (using Firefox browser). VP9 works, of course, but I am extremely skeptical (to put things midly) it is enough @ 1080p 60 FPS for a Bristol Ridge dual core (or 25W A9 Stoney Ridge). This based on my 3.6 Ghz/3.8 Ghz A6-5400K dropping frames @ 1080p 60 FPS when using VP9.

Some past info on the driver support in Ubuntu 16.04:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu-1604-amd&num=1

Canonical had to resort to deprecating the fglrx Catalyst (or now known as Radeon Software) driver support since AMD is no longer actively maintaining that Linux driver and doesn't even have mainline support for the latest Linux kernel and X.Org Server releases, which means it won't work on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. AMD is replacing the driver later in the year with their AMDGPU kernel based hybrid driver for GCN 1.2+ GPUs and whatever GCN 1.0~1.1 GPUs that end up getting enabled for this newer DRM driver that succeeds the Radeon DRM driver. That new hybrid driver is expected around the middle of the year, likely to be timed with the Polaris launch.

 

[hojnikb]

Yeah, Cat cores weren't bad, they just didn't clock very high. It would have been cool to seem an AM1 14nm refresh, TBH. I wonder where they could have gone with that. If they could have fabbed some 4.0Ghz Cat cores, that would have been wild.

Yeah thats not gonna happen. What they could do is bring stoney ridge to am1. It fits the right power envelope as am1 (25W or less) is single channel and has chipset built in.

Although i'm not sure how's vrm requirement for stoney, as bristol and carrizo were quite strict about this and hence why they didn't bring it to fm2+

Even if its not possible, they could revise am1 as am1+, that can support stoney for the ultra cheap platform. I'm sure making a potential am1+ board would be quite a bit cheaper than am4.

 

[The Stilt]

Yeah thats not gonna happen. What they could do is bring stoney ridge to am1. It fits the right power envelope as am1 (25W or less) is single channel and has chipset built in.

Although i'm not sure how's vrm requirement for stoney, as bristol and carrizo were quite strict about this and hence why they didn't bring it to fm2+

Even if its not possible, they could revise am1 as am1+, that can support stoney for the ultra cheap platform. I'm sure making a potential am1+ board would be quite a bit cheaper than am4.

FS1b / AM1 is electrically incompatible with full Excavator based SoCs. AMD could bring Excavator based CPUs for AM1 same way they did for FM2+, but the graphics is a no go.

 

[Dresdenboy]

Yeah, Cat cores weren't bad, they just didn't clock very high. It would have been cool to seem an AM1 14nm refresh, TBH. I wonder where they could have gone with that. If they could have fabbed some 4.0Ghz Cat cores, that would have been wild.

I assume that many of the good things in Cat cores found their way into Zen.

That wild 4GHz core would be Wild Cat then? Or Sabertooth.

 

[ET]

Some additional points:

What you're basically saying is that you think DIY users should get Intel.

I mean, these points basically say that an AMD APU is only worthwhile with a dGPU, and we all know that Intel is better for that.

Of course, an intelligent DIY user would want BR for what it's good at: providing decent iGPU performance in a low power platform, that would be a good fit in a HTPC, coupled with the option for future expansion. FM2+ would be inferior in all ways for that.

I think it's a pity that AMD targets the clueless OEM customer first, and leaves the DIY user with a solution that only the clueless would get. Switching the roles (putting BR DIY out and leaving FM2+ to OEM's) would have served both markets much better.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

Well its now Nov 1st and still nothing notta no word at all... at this rate Zen will beat BR to the market if BR is even getting a DIY release now. And the way things are looking, ZEN is only being able to turbo up to 3.2 or 3.3Ghz is just plain stupid if you ask me.Come on AMD all I am asking for is a unlocked 950k that is a measly 5% faster clock for clock then the 880k. What I dont want is a higher set base clock and they call that 5% faster without any ipc improvements because of that..

 

[cbn]

I think AMD made the right choice by focusing on OEM for Bristol Ridge desktop and let the DIY have the excess Kaveri/Godavari.

One reason is that DIYers will use DDR3 2133 and DDR3 2400 while the OEMs won't....and another is that OEMs traditionally have worse than expected AMD desktop pricing compared to Intel (so OEM getting all the BR chips here probably made the most sense).

Some additional points:

1. Kaveri/Godavari CPU can be faster in gaming than Bristol Ridge CPU (re: greater L2 cache and in the case of Athlon x 4 860K vs Athlon x 4 950 greater clockspeed).
2. AM4 B350 doesn't look like it really offers much over FM2+. If wanting to use Zen eventually a I'll bet a DIYer would want to wait for X370 or X300 motherboards anyway.
3. BR does have better bandwidth efficiency than KV/GV but if a DIYer is really serious about graphics they are likely to use a add in card anyway (then the KV/GV user can get H265 and VP9 ). Furthermore, discounted KV/GV + FM2+ dGPU might have been priced very close to BR APU + B350. (Some examples of the discounted FM2+ DIY pricing here and here and here).

With that mentioned, I think it would have been even better to see AMD fully focused on 35W BR Mobile (ie, BGA for laptops, AIO desktops, etc) rather than see some of the BR APU dies get converted to 65W AM4. It does looks like they made an attempt to do that but for whatever reason it didn't work. Perhaps better labeling (via some kind of "gaming clock" addition) of BR 35W BGA APUs would have helped OEMs make the 35W choice? This due to the thought of consumers having a better chance to realize the distinction between 35W and 15W BGA APUs?

I mean, these points basically say that an AMD APU is only worthwhile with a dGPU, and we all know that Intel is better for that.

Of course, an intelligent DIY user would want BR for what it's good at: providing decent iGPU performance in a low power platform, that would be a good fit in a HTPC, coupled with the option for future expansion. FM2+ would be inferior in all ways for that..

No, What I am saying is that a discounted KV/GV +dGPU (with modern decode) might be priced around the same level as a Bristol Ridge AM4 APU in some cases.

And secondly, I definitely support DIY BR for "providing decent iGPU in a low power platform":

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...rizo-or-bga-bristol-ridge-15w-or-35w.2476471/

(^^^^ BGA would be really nice in that it could allow mounting to an Akasa Euler fanless heatsink case for one thing.)

 

[majord]

Well its now Nov 1st and still nothing notta no word at all... at this rate Zen will beat BR to the market if BR is even getting a DIY release now. And the way things are looking, ZEN is only being able to turbo up to 3.2 or 3.3Ghz is just plain stupid if you ask me.Come on AMD all I am asking for is a unlocked 950k that is a measly 5% faster clock for clock then the 880k. What I dont want is a higher set base clock and they call that 5% faster without any ipc improvements because of that..

Well, not quite DIY - but getting closer!..

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/topic/review/1027503.html

ASUS A320M-C Branded motherboard, and a std ATX case..

http://www.tsukumo.co.jp/bto/pc/aerostream/2016/RM5A-B81T.html#note

 

[ET]

No, What I am saying is that a discounted KV/GV +dGPU (with modern decode) might be priced around the same level as a Bristol Ridge AM4 APU in some cases.

I think that's idle speculation. I can't imagine that really being the case, unless you couple a very low end APU with a dGPU, in which case, yes, you might beat a higher end BR in price and perhaps performance for some things, but again, you'd probably be able to get the same price and better performance with an Intel CPU.

 

[cbn]

I can't imagine that really being the case, unless you couple a very low end APU with a dGPU, in which case, yes, you might beat a higher end BR in price and perhaps performance for some things

Did you not click on the following links for discounted Godavari from post #584:

(Some examples of the discounted FM2+ DIY pricing here and here and here).

Also, see the following deal posted by Virtual Larry today:

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/a8-7600-a88x-micro-atx-ersatz-combo-100-ar-ap-newegg.2490815/

 

[ET]

...

Sorry. I tend to ignore US deals, but you have a point that at least one of them looked good (the 7860K one). I would still imagine that a Pentium G4400 will be better for gaming.

 

[Shivansps]

Two questions.

1) When and with what AMD gona replace AM1?
2) There will be AM4 motherboards whiout chipset? it does not seem to be needed as AM4 APU/CPU should already provide al I/O needed, this will help to replace AM1 low MB prices.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

I dont think its gonna happen,no AM1 replacement. I think Bristol Ridge is gonna be the lowest end your gonna find vs ZEN. Besides these are going to be 15-35w parts anyways so maybe this is the replacement? Who really knows at this point, I mean they aren't even out yet. Best thing I could tell you right now is give it another couple of months then we'll know more.Me personally at this point in time I've given up on this whole waiting game crap,Just another week this or just another month that is for the birds... so I went all out and bought 2 Z170 systems one i3 6300 for an HTPC for the living room and another 6700k for a full time media encoder/file server.If BR or Zen ever comes out and happens to oust Skylake then I will sell off my 2 rigs and return to AMD but not till then..

 

[cbn]

Two questions.

1) When and with what AMD gona replace AM1?
2) There will be AM4 motherboards whiout chipset? it does not seem to be needed as AM4 APU/CPU should already provide al I/O needed, this will help to replace AM1 low MB prices.

I dont think its gonna happen,no AM1 replacement. I think Bristol Ridge is gonna be the lowest end your gonna find vs ZEN. Besides these are going to be 15-35w parts anyways so maybe this is the replacement? Who really knows at this point, I mean they aren't even out yet. Best thing I could tell you right now is give it another couple of months then we'll know more.Me personally at this point in time I've given up on this whole waiting game crap,Just another week this or just another month that is for the birds... so I went all out and bought 2 Z170 systems one i3 6300 for an HTPC for the living room and another 6700k for a full time media encoder/file server.If BR or Zen ever comes out and happens to oust Skylake then I will sell off my 2 rigs and return to AMD but not till then..

I would have loved to have (still love to have) a 35W BGA Carrizo or Bristol Ridge board.

No chipset, no VRM needing to be at 95W (just a frugal 35W), no separate socket (just a BGA connection). What else I am forgetting?

 

[Justinbaileyman]

Yeah well AMD would have made a killing releasing something, anything for this holiday season but they are completely clueless.. Yet they want to release something right after the holiday when everyone is broke from spending money on the holidays.. Makes no sense to me at all... Yes I too would have loved a 35w Carrizo or Bristol Ridge plus a B350 mobo but now its not gonna happen cause I had to make my choice cause I needed something to use now not keep waiting week after week and month after month just to be told to keep waiting.Besides the way they are going they are going to be 2 generations behind Intel yet again. I say this because I just seen the video from AMD comparing Zen to Broadwell-e and it was like barely toe to toe with the 5960x so there is no way its gonna compete with say Skylake or even Kabylake and specially not against Skylake-X.I got a bad feeling Zen is gonna be to little to late.But hey thats just my feelings dont take my word for it, it could turn out to be awesomely powerful and I could be totally wrong.But if Im not then I wont have anything to regret about going Intel this round.If you are looking for something snappy with low TDP and dont mind switching sides there is always CPU's like the i3 6100t or i5 6400t which is only 35w and will completely destroy any Fm2+ cpu/apu and probably any Bristol Ridge as well.

 

[ET]

1) When and with what AMD gona replace AM1?
2) There will be AM4 motherboards whiout chipset? it does not seem to be needed as AM4 APU/CPU should already provide al I/O needed, this will help to replace AM1 low MB prices.

The chipset slides from AMD showed 'SFF Options' as being chipset 'X/B/A300' and having only the SoC features of Bristol Ridge. So I'd imagine that's the replacement for AM1. I haven't seen further details, but it's entirely possible IMO that Stoney Ridge will show up in SFF form.