AMD back in gear, Centurion FX

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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,885
4,873
136
Out of curiosity i asked HFR forum members , hope they will post
results but i ve got already two , i will update if there s other numbers.

User NORADII : 130W/4Ghz and 177W/4.4Ghz , seems that it s measured
just before the VRMs , on the 12V , i m waiting for more precision from said user.

User Maerens : 4.7Ghz 1.47V 310W with Wprime95 , measured at the wall.
 

PliotronX

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 1999
8,883
107
106
5GHz, impressive but that's what it probably needs to match a stock 3570K and costs four times as much and draws more than twice the power. Unless I'm missing something :whiste:
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,066
418
126
Out of curiosity i asked HFR forum members , hope they will post
results but i ve got already two , i will update if there s other numbers.

User NORADII : 130W/4Ghz and 177W/4.4Ghz , seems that it s measured
just before the VRMs , on the 12V , i m waiting for more precision from said user.

User Maerens : 4.7Ghz 1.47V 310W with Wprime95 , measured at the wall.

oc1.png


http://hothardware.com/Reviews/AMD-FX-8350-Vishera-8Core-CPU-Review/?page=9

default (boost on) vs 4.7GHz

unfortunately they didn't specify what software was used for loading the CPU.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,885
4,873
136

CHADBOGA

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2009
2,135
833
136
Actualy you re missing everything....
3570K at stocks is no match with even a stock 8350

Of course the 3570K is a match.

It easily wins in low threaded tests and only loses in the highly threaded tests of which most users don't encounter that often.
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,522
751
126
5GHz, impressive but that's what it probably needs to match a stock 3570K and costs four times as much and draws more than twice the power. Unless I'm missing something :whiste:

Depends on the workload, the 3570k would lose encoding and rendering but usually win in games or other single or lightly threaded workloads.

While obviously using much less power and costing a lot less.
 

Sleepingforest

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 2012
2,375
0
76
There seems to be quite a large dispersion from an user to another
but to this day IDC got the worst numbers out of the whole web or so ,
yet some agenda driven members insist that his numbers are representative...

His numbers (nearly 200W if you read) are not the highest number on the web. Observe:
Guru3d: 239W
BitTech: 213W
TechReport: 196W
XBitLabs: 218W
Anandtech: 195.2

You cannot possibly say than IDC and every single one of these sites has a flawed methodology. I would say you are the one with an agenda and pushing unrepresentative numbers, not IDC and all of these sites which agree with him.
 
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Quantos

Senior member
Dec 23, 2011
386
0
76
How about this: these numbers might not be entirely reliable, and the values may change from one unit to the other? Overall the average would be what... around 210 or something?
 

MountainKing

Senior member
Sep 9, 2006
268
1
81
Of course the 3570K is a match.

It easily wins in low threaded tests and only loses in the highly threaded tests of which most users don't encounter that often.

IF I had to choose a rig and based on AMD's superiority in highly threaded tests, I would go for AMD as this would best work as an encoding rig I suppose.

Even if it was behind in low threaded tasks, I would venture and say the performance cannot be that bad that the rig is unusable in low threaded tasks.

edit: Of course, if I have the bucks and can just choose 'the best', I'd definitely go Intel. On a budget, I'd say AMD.
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,362
136
His numbers (nearly 200W if you read) are not the highest number on the web. Observe:
Guru3d: 239W
BitTech: 213W
TechReport: 196W
XBitLabs: 218W
Anandtech: 195.2

You cannot possibly say than IDC and every single one of these sites has a flawed methodology. I would say you are the one with an agenda and pushing unrepresentative numbers, not IDC and all of these sites which agree with him.


Those numbers are for the entire system taken at the wall, also you can clearly see that TechReport and Anandtech has the lowest power consumption because they using the x264 application to measure, Guru and Bittech are using Prime95 and Xbit is using Linx.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
1
0
What matters is total consumption from the wall. You cannot isolate power consumption from the CPU alone and even if you can do it the resulting value is useless, because you are never running the CPU alone.

Total consumption matters to the end user, yes. But it's a crappy way of measuring CPU power consumption. If you really don't understand why, I'm not sure why I am bothering with this at all.

Yes, I accept their performance numbers, but they are not "utterly embarrassing" as you believe.

Well, if you consider being beaten by an average of roughly 50% across a wide swath of benchmarks not utterly embarrassing -- and this in an era of very small performance improvements between generations -- then I have to wonder what you would consider utterly embarrasing.

The review uses W7 SP1, this is an OS with a bad scheduler that unoptimizes threads for the Bulldozer/Piledriver architecture. Microsoft released two fixes for the FX-chips, but they do not work. This puts extra performance on the Intel side.

1. And the average person cares about this... why exactly? Do you think excuses help them get work done faster, or improve their frame rates? I find it amusing that in one breath you use an "all that matters is the end result argument" like "what matters is consumption at the wall", and then the next breath, you're telling me I should ignore the operating system? What's the guy supposed to do, use the thing as a doorstop? Pay extra for an OS "upgrade" that a lot of people despise?

2. While we're at it, who says the patches don't work?

3. Beyond that, even if they don't, I seriously doubt this can account for more than a few percentage points of difference.

Intel chips run with stock or overclocked RAM. The i7-3930x extreme chips run with RAM overclocked up to 1.98 GHz!! The FX-8350 run with underclocked RAM. This puts extra performance on the Intel side.

1. RAM speed has virtually no impact on net CPU performance. It's maybe a point or two. Every benchmark shows this consistently.

2. In nearly every benchmark the FX-8350 gets utterly destroyed by the i5-3570, which is running RAM of identical speed.

Third, the software used (e.g. Cinebench 11.5) is compiled with the Intel CPU dispatcher, which forces the code to run slower when detects an AMD chip through the CPUID. This puts extra performance on the Intel side.

1. So you're cherry-picking one benchmark to make excuses for, even though the AMD chips get demolished in every benchmark they used?

2. Again, even if true -- who cares? If software works better on Intel chips, then it works better on Intel chips. As an end consumer, I really don't care why, I just care that it's faster. If AMD can't properly clone the chips they are copying, that's their problem.

When you correct all that, the FX perform very very well... and at lower price.

No, actually, they don't.

Many of your "corrections" are not corrections, they are excuses. They don't matter. The others are either incorrect themselves, or account for a tiny portion of the performance differential between AMD and Intel right now.

And that's why AMD has to practically give their chips away.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
Just with theses numbers i would have checked a lot of things
the first being to use the same PSU for all configurations....

Assuming the 470W figure being accurate that makes a CPU
consuming 350W , a power that would destroy it within a
few dozen seconds.

+20% frequency + 24% VDD should at most increase
TDP by 82% while you re saying that it s 150%.....

I did use the same PSU, not just the same make/model, but physically the exact same PSU.

As to your comment regarding destroying the CPU...no, it doesn't destroy a CPU in seconds, silly to talk about it like that. FUD silly.

Did everyone miss the undervoltage (1.268V, measured) VS 1.560V for stability (measured).

+200W is ginormous, but going from a "stable undervolt" to "max stable OC" is a huge gap.
I dont doubt your values, but they are visually biased unless someone reads your entire post.
You compare your "best vs worse" scenarios under a specific load.

I'm willing to be bet the same could almost be done with an 3770K : "stable undervolt" vs "MAX OC".
And the results would probably be very similar (albeit not not that enormous) with a 300W CPU....

Take a 3770K do the "maximum stable undervolt at stock", run Prime.
Take the same 3770K do the "maximum stable overclock", run Prime.

A +100W difference (instead of +200W for the FX) between both scenario wouldn't surprise me.
The total draw of course, but a ginormous difference in overall consumption ?

idontcare's numbers seem to point towards a 125+194W FX8350 (lets assume there is zero loss from the MB/PSU).
I wouldnt be surprised to see a 77+100W 3770K in the same scenario.

If you've read my threads on power-consumption in these forums then you'd already be well aware of those numbers, they are all posted up. But that wasn't the discussion here which is why I didn't include them.

Someone mentioned a 5GHz FX-8350 would consume less than 200W, which is completely bogus. The data regarding the Intel chips was just to support that, because the Intel chips (known for consuming less power than the AMD ones) consume more than 200W when overclocked to 5GHz as well. So AMD chips are only going to consume even more power.

But there is just so much denial around here that its pretty much pointless to talk about it. They want to blame everything else under the sun except the AMD cpu plugged into the socket...only problem is if it is an Intel cpu plugged into a socket then all of a sudden the power drops by a huge amount.

If this was a car forum then these folks would argue it is the tire company's fault their H2's get 10mpg. If only their H2 had better tires then the gas mileage would be the same as a Highlander Hybrid :rolleyes:

(or the argument becomes "well just don't drive the H2, leave it in your driveway, you really only use it for 5-10minutes a day anyways, so the mpg difference isn't all that big of a deal")
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
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IF I had to choose a rig and based on AMD's superiority in highly threaded tests, I would go for AMD as this would best work as an encoding rig I suppose.

Even if it was behind in low threaded tasks, I would venture and say the performance cannot be that bad that the rig is unusable in low threaded tasks.

edit: Of course, if I have the bucks and can just choose 'the best', I'd definitely go Intel. On a budget, I'd say AMD.

Or obviously, you could go with the 3570k and use the same argument about encoding, and use less power as well.
 

bgt

Senior member
Oct 6, 2007
573
3
81
Did some tests:
PSU used: Seasonic 660W Platinium series(P-660XP2)

Tested power usage of FX8350:

Turbo off, idle=69W

Cores/Prime95/Winrar/Winrar score/
2/140W/128W/2733
4/186W/138W/5084
6/223W/154W/6894
8/245W/174W/8103

4000-3400-2800-2100-1400Mhz
245W-213W- ? -131W-104W

Tested power usage of i7-3770K:
Turbo off, idle is 53W
Cores/Prime95/Winrar/Winrar score/
2/ 83W/71W/3138
4/118W/86W/5888
6/? /? /7338
8/128W/93W/9424

On the i7:
AMD HD7950@
930/1250 = 236W
1250/1250 = 354W
1300/1500 = 455W

With Prime95 on the i7:
309W/420W/528W(with the 7950)
 
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mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
0
76
But there is just so much denial around here that its pretty much pointless to talk about it. They want to blame everything else under the sun except the AMD cpu plugged into the socket...only problem is if it is an Intel cpu plugged into a socket then all of a sudden the power drops by a huge amount.

Some threads are like XS in the old times, but with a much lower level....
 

Durp

Member
Jan 29, 2013
132
0
0
If this was a car forum then these folks would argue it is the tire company's fault their H2's get 10mpg. If only their H2 had better tires then the gas mileage would be the same as a Highlander Hybrid :rolleyes:

(or the argument becomes "well just don't drive the H2, leave it in your driveway, you really only use it for 5-10minutes a day anyways, so the mpg difference isn't all that big of a deal")

Exactly my feelings on the excuses being made in this thread.

I honestly accept that I'm a fanboy at this point though. Not for AMD or Intel but a fanboy of Idontcare.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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642
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People using the FX chip knows that substituting a single incandescent-bulb on their home provides more economic benefits than 40--60 W more consumption under full load.

This argument is like saying you would not pick up a dollar bill lying on your floor because your car payment is 300.00 per month.
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
0
76
I just dont hope the forum suffers the same fate due to that.

When Bulldozer was launched the most knowledgeable people there were committed to Bulldozer and AMD while arranging the other that disagreeded with them to be banned. There was an AMD shock troop there, and when Bulldozer was launched you could see their credibility burning miles away.

Here's different. The people that are the soul of this forum tend to have a much more balanced opinion between the two companies. The fanboys here are mostly a nuisance, nobody notices when they spend a week or two without posting.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
If there is nothing to correct, why did Microsoft release the FX patches?

If there is nothing to correct, why was Intel obligated (court case) to add a disclaimer to its compiler?

If there is nothing to correct, why are programmers developing alternative compilers?

If there is nothing to correct, why you need to underclock the RAM used in the FX down to 1.6 GHz but you need to overclock up to 1.9 GHz the RAM used in the Intel extreme chips before comparing both chips?

The facts are run a more modern OS, non-cheated benchmarks, and stock RAM and 'magically' the Intel chips do not perform so well as you believed...

The first thing a new reg such as yourself should do is search the forum. Your points have already been debunked in the past. It will save you embarrassment.

For example let's talk about the Intel compiler. Did you bother researching it enough to find out that it produces faster code on AMD cpu's than any other compiler? Or are you just parroting what you read from AMD fanboys?

Edit:
You would probably be much more comfortable posting at the Zone, they are your flock, and could certainly use the new users.
http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/
 
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Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
But there is just so much denial around here that its pretty much pointless to talk about it. They want to blame everything else under the sun except the AMD cpu plugged into the socket...only problem is if it is an Intel cpu plugged into a socket then all of a sudden the power drops by a huge amount.

If this was a car forum then these folks would argue it is the tire company's fault their H2's get 10mpg. If only their H2 had better tires then the gas mileage would be the same as a Highlander Hybrid :rolleyes:

(or the argument becomes "well just don't drive the H2, leave it in your driveway, you really only use it for 5-10minutes a day anyways, so the mpg difference isn't all that big of a deal")

Sticky worthy!
 

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
5,338
476
126
All I can say is I own BOTH the 3770k rig and the FX8350 rig and IDC is spot on.