AMD back in gear, Centurion FX

[Fox5]

I wonder, building a cheap machine for hosting 5-8 virtual machines (I omit the server word on purpose), what would fare better, the 8 core cmt (fx8350) or the 4 core smt (3770) ?

If you want reliability, AMD FX cpus support ECC memory and Intel consumer cpus don't.
Power cost would be heavily in favor of Intel though.

 

[lagokc]

Is it possible that AMD is planning for these 5GHz CPUs to go mostly to CPU review sites so that whenever benchmarks are posted they have at least one CPU in the top few?

 

[mrmt]

Is it possible that AMD is planning for these 5GHz CPUs to go mostly to CPU review sites so that whenever benchmarks are posted they have at least one CPU in the top few?

The only chart where such a processor would reach an uncontested top is a power consumption chart. AMD would make a joke of itself with this processor, more than it already does. But cooler/TIM companies would love it. I can already see the banners on tech sites:

- Buy Noctua, not even the most outrageous power hog in the CPU industry can beat our coolers

- Indigo Extreme: If it can cope with the heat of AMD power hog, it will make wonders for your CPU.

 

[inf64]

This is a great post from Stilt@XS about how ridiculous this idea (of 5Ghz 8T FX) is.

This is getting ridiculous.

Unless there is a major node overhaul (which reduces the power consumption by 30-50%) there is absolutely no way AMD can release a 8-core FX clocked to 5.0GHz. Nothing indicates that there would be a new node version coming and releasing one would not make any sense anyway. There is no point in using the limited resources to anything else but on the Gen. 3.

A nasty thing to say but using the limited resources on Piledriver would be like force feeding hay to a dead horse.

Currently the fastest 8-core FX is clocked to 4.0GHz.
At this frequency the 125W TDP envelope is already fully used in well optimized multithreaded applications (such as rendering or video encoding), there is no headroom really.

A proper binning of the dies can make around 200MHz of difference on current Piledriver dies.
The additional scalability comes purely from the lower leakage properties of the binned parts.

The current Piledriver cores do not scale well beyond 4.6GHz, which seem to be the critical frequency really.
They can be pushed beyond that but the increase in the power consumption & emitted thermal power can no longer be justified by the resulting performance increase. Beyond this point the performance-power curve is anything but linear.

We might see a 8-core FX (Piledriver) clocked to 4.3 - 4.5GHz (base frequency) at some point, but anything higher than that is very unlikely.

Even if AMD could produce a 8-core FX clocked to 5.0GHz, there would not be any motherboards for the chip.
A 5.0GHz 8-core Piledriver FX consumes 180W - 200W of power during Cinebench R11.5 for example (DCR Pmax, from CPU VRM).

In some applications the power consumption can be even 30% higher than that so the motherboard design has to have enough of headroom to accomodate the difference + the design margin. The motherboard would need to be able to deliver 235W - 260W of constant power. After the average conversion (VRM efficiency) loss the total VRM input power would be 294W - 325W (24.5 - 27A from the 12V rail).

The power dissipation of the CPU VRM alone would be 36W - 46W.

There are only couple of motherboards which can temporarily manage such of power requirements.
Even these motherboards cannot support such power requirements reliably for extended periods of time.

Having a 5.0GHz Piledriver based system in daily use is far from impossible.
It just requires conditions of which 99.95% of the users cannot attain.
A high performance custom watercooling system for the CPU and the motherboard (CPU VRM).

AMD and an enthusiast also have a slightly different definition for the term "long term reliability and stability".

 

[Homeles]

This is a great post from Stilt@XS about how ridiculous this idea (of 5Ghz 8T FX) is.

The rumor is that these chips are guaranteed capable of hitting 5GHz on air. In other words, they release them at a stable stock clock, and you can push them to 5GHz on your own.

 

[inf64]

I'm not saying this rumor is too impossible, just that I doubt it's true.

 

[Homeles]

I'm not saying this rumor is too impossible, just that I doubt it's true.

Well the guy that you quoted is saying that AMD can't release a 5GHz stock CPU. He and nearly everyone else have misinterpreted the rumor as it being a 5GHz stock CPU. It's not. It would likely share the same stock clocks as the 8350, while being cherry picked to hit 5GHz if the user wanted to overclock them.

It certainly is possible, but I agree -- the volume of parts would be too low for this to be worth it. And since they can't release them at that speed stock, they'd make a pretty miserable marketing stunt.

 

[inf64]

Bump for chadboga who cannot use the search feature of the forum (too complicated?).

 

[CHADBOGA]

Bump for chadboga who cannot use the search feature of the forum (too complicated?).

I only use search for worthy products.

 

[_Rick_]

If you want reliability, AMD FX cpus support ECC memory and Intel consumer cpus don't.
Power cost would be heavily in favor of Intel though.

The S1155 Xeons and C216 mainboards aren't that much more expensive though. And they support some other nice features that AMD is missing out on (integrated GPU with KVMoIP capability for example)

In the end you have to weigh up CAPEX vs OPEX over the expected usage interval, and use that as basis for the decision.

 

[Genx87]

Need a meme for this.

Release 795 dollar 5GHz CPU

Lose to 135 dollar i3

 

[sm625]

Imagine if this was the very chip they launched 2 years ago, for $250.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Imagine if this was the very chip they launched 2 years ago, for $250.

Well, given that it appears to be vaporware, in that respect it is the very chip they launched 2 years ago for $250.

 

[guskline]

Considering how much the power-consumption for my 8350 climbed as I OC'ed from 4GHz to 4.5GHz, 5GHz would probably land you at around 500W (not trying to be funny or silly, that is my honest estimate).

I believe you. What "magic" will AMD spin to curtail this? I still think this was a ploy to divert attention away from the imminent release of Haswell.

 

[Chiropteran]

Price doesn't make sense. Maybe it would be justified if it was based on a 16-core opteran, for those who need lots and lots of cores, but then the power usage would be somewhat absurd. I think it's just a false rumor.

 

[galego]

There are already Piledriver users running FX-8350 at 5.0 GHz on air and with the stock cooler. I wonder if this centurion beast could be overclocked to 6--6.5 GHz on liquid.

And if an FX-8350 @ stock can be 30--70% faster than an i7-3770k on several tests, I cannot wait to see the performance of this beast

 

[Ajay]

If AMD is looking to sneak back into high-end they could always do something like this again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Quad_FX_platform

Only with a pair of 16-core Abu Dhabi CPUs I'm sure they could find some buyers

That's an interesting idea, though a pair of 8350's would make more sense for enthusiasts. Something like EVGA SR-X, except with unlocked CPUs and lower prices and room for Triple X-Fire or SLI (Quads require HPTX, and narrows case choices too much, IMHO).

LOLZ, it could attract those who like to boast about their e-peen being bigger than everyone else's. [hmm, AT has no lol emoticon - lame].

 

[Exophase]

There are already Piledriver users running FX-8350 at 5.0 GHz on hair and with the stock cooler. I wonder if this centurion beast could be overclocked to 6--6.5 GHz on liquid.

Or it could just be one of those very same FX-8350s that can run on 5GHz air with no additional overclocking headroom left. If AMD tweaked anything to produce a better baseline for their products they'd introduce it across the board. An expensive halo product is just going to be aggressively binned, meaning it won't be better than the best you already see out in the wild.

Not buying this idea that the processor will merely ship at stock clocks and be pre-certified to hit 5GHz if you have just the right setup.. hard to swallow that anyone would pay a 4x premium for that. I'd think the premium is for the people who don't want to deal with overclocking..

 

[ShintaiDK]

I dont think any mobo makers would allow such a theoretical CPU in their boards in terms of warranty. FX8350 CPUs cant even run within design specs already.

 

[galego]

Or it could just be one of those very same FX-8350s that can run on 5GHz air with no additional overclocking headroom left.

Very interesting point.

 

[galego]

I dont think any mobo makers would allow such a theoretical CPU in their boards in terms of warranty. FX8350 CPUs cant even run within design specs already.

\begin{irony}

Did not read the news? It will be running on air... suspended on air... there is no mobo.

\end{irony}

 

[Puppies04]

Have we considered that these chips might only hit 5ghz when all 8 cores are not being utilised?

 

[frozentundra123456]

There are already Piledriver users running FX-8350 at 5.0 GHz on hair and with the stock cooler. I wonder if this centurion beast could be overclocked to 6--6.5 GHz on liquid.

And if an FX-8350 @ stock can be 30--70% faster than an i7-3770k on several tests, I cannot wait to see the performance of this beast

Where do you get those "hair" coolers? Is that the opposite of a hair dryer?

 

[inf64]

He obviously meant "air", but you know that and just need to belittle him I guess. Nice going man.

 

[Ajay]

Or it could just be one of those very same FX-8350s that can run on 5GHz air with no additional overclocking headroom left. If AMD tweaked anything to produce a better baseline for their products they'd introduce it across the board. An expensive halo product is just going to be aggressively binned, meaning it won't be better than the best you already see out in the wild.

Not buying this idea that the processor will merely ship at stock clocks and be pre-certified to hit 5GHz if you have just the right setup.. hard to swallow that anyone would pay a 4x premium for that. I'd think the premium is for the people who don't want to deal with overclocking..

Hmm, I didn't know anybody had 8350s running on air, but I haven't really spent anytime in thread on overclocking Piledriver. I didn't know there were some running on LC, but that's just because I was looking at case mods and saw some specs.

That said, I agree with you second point.

As far as motherboards go, AMD would need to select a vendor(s) as having Certified Centurion Ready motherboards. They would just have to spec out a high efficiency VRM (largely dependent on the MOSFETS) with better stock cooling of the same. One can find some good info on VRMs Here @ Overclock.net. I run with LC on with my overclocked i7 920, so I have the top back fan in my system blowing in across the VRMs and motherboard socket.