AMD Athlon 5150 Kabini - cat, Jaguar or more fun?

[Abwx]

Here's a CPU-Z screen for my 5350 bought right after launch, we can compare revision info if you wish. However, I doubt your chip is Beema, since that is manufactured at GloFo. Would be nice if it were, although why not bump clocks by 150-300Mhz and make a new SKU out of it?

The CPU is not stock, it has a slightly higher 21x multi and -100mV offset. (1.3V stock, 1.2V set in BIOS, the rest is VDroop)

Beema/Mullins are precisely manufactured at GF, power comsumption is noticeably lower than the TSMC fabbed A6 5200.

With my Athlon 5350 power delta at the main is 18W with Prime 95 and 16W with Luxmark CPU + GPU, this yield barely 13-15W at the SoC level.

With your settings this would be factored by 0.85 but the voltage margin is surely not within the minimal requirement wich is 10%, it s stable because the low currents cant yield big voltage variations, not counting that the CPU PSU is obviously oversized, a very good thing for reliability..

Anyway 2.5-2.6 is doable within 20W apparently..

 

[Chupacabra333]

This is when I tried to O.C. with D.O.C.P. and raising the RAM from 1066 to 1333MHZ.

O.C. GPU Clock 333.3 - 750 MHZ. Stock numbers without O.C. are 266.7 - 600MHZ
O.C. GPU Memory Clock 333 - 533.0 MHZ. Stock numbers without O.C. are 333 - 800MHZ

Haven´t used the system like that for a while. Also had the choice from 1333-1600 for 1920MHZ on the CPU clock. GPU Clock: 320 - 720MHZ. GPU Memory Clock: 333 - 667MHZ.

I´ll start to O.C. this thing again when Its old... don´t wanna kill my only HW right now.

 

[dark zero]

This is when I tried to O.C. with D.O.C.P. and raising the RAM from 1066 to 1333MHZ.

O.C. GPU Clock 333.3 - 750 MHZ. Stock numbers without O.C. are 266.7 - 600MHZ
O.C. GPU Memory Clock 333 - 533.0 MHZ. Stock numbers without O.C. are 333 - 800MHZ

Haven´t used the system like that for a while. Also had the choice from 1333-1600 for 1920MHZ on the CPU clock. GPU Clock: 320 - 720MHZ. GPU Memory Clock: 333 - 667MHZ.

I´ll start to O.C. this thing again when Its old... don´t wanna kill my only HW right now.

Don't worry, you can't kill that until you reach 1.35v, so try to get the 2.25 Ghz mark.

 

[MrRamon]

Hi everyone. My 5350 should be here tomorrow. I also ordered the Asus AM1M-A motherboard and 8gigs of DDR3 1866. I plan on overclocking and watercooling it. I got the board in today and it looks like my Danger Den Socket 939 block should fit on it. I'm hoping it will be a fun little system. Going to put a Radeon 7850 in it as well. Ran my watercooling setup for the last 48 hours and no leaks so far. I will post an update tomorrow but any input on overclocking with this board is appreciated.

 

[eton975]

Hi everyone. My 5350 should be here tomorrow. I also ordered the Asus AM1M-A motherboard and 8gigs of DDR3 1866. I plan on overclocking and watercooling it. I got the board in today and it looks like my Danger Den Socket 939 block should fit on it. I'm hoping it will be a fun little system. Going to put a Radeon 7850 in it as well. Ran my watercooling setup for the last 48 hours and no leaks so far. I will post an update tomorrow but any input on overclocking with this board is appreciated.

Would recommend returning and getting a Celeron G1840 + cheap H81 if possible.

Athlon 5350 gets crushed by the G1840.

 

[MrRamon]

Would recommend returning and getting a Celeron G1840 + cheap H81 if possible.

Athlon 5350 gets crushed by the G1840.

Wow, def a far superior chip. I would hate to return mobo/cpu I ordered. Been out of the game for a while as I've been running a AMD FX-55 with 2 gigs of ram and a 120gig HD with a 3850 AGP for years. TBH I got out of the best hardware race years ago because it was a money pit. I think the mobo died in my rig and just wanted something cheap as I don't game much anymore. If I'm not happy with the 5350 I will probably turn it into an HTPC and order the Celeron and overclock it. We shall see. Thanks for your advice.

 

[eton975]

Wow, def a far superior chip. I would hate to return mobo/cpu I ordered. Been out of the game for a while as I've been running a AMD FX-55 with 2 gigs of ram and a 120gig HD with a 3850 AGP for years. TBH I got out of the best hardware race years ago because it was a money pit. I think the mobo died in my rig and just wanted something cheap as I don't game much anymore. If I'm not happy with the 5350 I will probably turn it into an HTPC and order the Celeron and overclock it. We shall see. Thanks for your advice.

No prob. Unfortunately if you wanna overclock on the Intel side you'll have to get the Pentium G3258 - the G1840 has a locked multiplier and so you can only overclock the baseclock.

On the AMD side, you have the 860K, which is arguably better than the 3258 in some cases. But avoid the 5350 at all costs if you're gaming.

 

[MrRamon]

No prob. Unfortunately if you wanna overclock on the Intel side you'll have to get the Pentium G3258 - the G1840 has a locked multiplier and so you can only overclock the baseclock.

On the AMD side, you have the 860K, which is arguably better than the 3258 in some cases. But avoid the 5350 at all costs if you're gaming.

Ah, Okay. If I end up buying either chip I plan on overclocking as I have my watercooling setup and won't be watercooling a HTPC. lol. Will give you an update tomorrow on the 5350 watercooled with the 7850 :/. Now you crushed my hopes on the little chip! heh. Have a good night.

 

[coercitiv]

Ah, Okay. If I end up buying either chip I plan on overclocking as I have my watercooling setup and won't be watercooling a HTPC. lol. Will give you an update tomorrow on the 5350 watercooled with the 7850 :/. Now you crushed my hopes on the little chip! heh. Have a good night.

5350 + that Asus mobo should get you a 30%+ overclock on water. If I remember correctly that Asus mATX mobo has somewhat better power delivery plus LLC, two pluses when comparing with the mITX model. Using the mITX model and stock cooler I was able to reach 2.7Ghz, but required voltage was rather high due to big vdroop and the stock cooler was close to its cooling capacity.

That having been said, eton975 already advised on what processors to aim for if you want to have some fun with gaming/overclocking on a cheap system.

 

[coercitiv]

meh, double post

 

[VirtualLarry]

I just picked up several more Sempron 3850 APUs. They were ~$20 FS @ NeweggFlash.com.

I figured, why not, I can use them to build cheap entry-level boxes for folks.

I still haven't assembled or tried overclocking my first 3850 with Asus AM1 mATX board.

I'm debating whether to go with ITX or mATX boards for the rest.

Board suggestions? Waltchan, I saw a few of your Newegg reviews, any suggestions on good AM1 boards, or which ones are good to OC with? And whether or not the 3850 is worthwhile overclocking. I'm guessing it has horrible ST performance out of the box.

 

[eton975]

I just picked up several more Sempron 3850 APUs. They were ~$20 FS @ NeweggFlash.com.

I figured, why not, I can use them to build cheap entry-level boxes for folks.

And whether or not the 3850 is worthwhile overclocking. I'm guessing it has horrible ST performance out of the box.

You're kinda sentencing the folks you're selling these to to worse than Pentium D level performance. I know Passmark isn't the best metric, but its 3850 samples have 515 singlethreaded marks. You'll definitely need to OC to get a nice experience.

So why sell these? They have performance comparable to a Bay Trail tablet, in a device 100 times the volume.

Is it really not possible to do a build with a G1840, even a 5350 for $50 more? Those folks are really missing out...

 

[VirtualLarry]

You're kinda sentencing the folks you're selling these to to worse than Pentium D level performance. I know Passmark isn't the best metric, but its 3850 samples have 515 singlethreaded marks. You'll definitely need to OC to get a nice experience.

So why sell these? They have performance comparable to a Bay Trail tablet, in a device 100 times the volume.

Is it really not possible to do a build with a G1840, even a 5350 for $50 more? Those folks are really missing out...

Did you look at the CPUMark / $ graph? It's pretty high, and considering they are pricing it at ~$36, and I'm getting them for ~$20, and might even overclock them, well, the value is definitely there.

And a Bay Trail tablet is perfectly usable for basic web browsing. I have no real issues with my HP Stream 7, except it limits how many tabs you can useably have and switch between in Firefox, due to 1GB of RAM. If I put 4-8GB of RAM in an AM1 box, that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[dark zero]

AM1 is the cheapest OC toy for starter Overclockers, then goes the G3258. Then we have the FX line and finally the Core i7 tier

 

[ShintaiDK]

Did you look at the CPUMark / $ graph? It's pretty high, and considering they are pricing it at ~$36, and I'm getting them for ~$20, and might even overclock them, well, the value is definitely there.

And a Bay Trail tablet is perfectly usable for basic web browsing. I have no real issues with my HP Stream 7, except it limits how many tabs you can useably have and switch between in Firefox, due to 1GB of RAM. If I put 4-8GB of RAM in an AM1 box, that shouldn't be an issue.

Something that is essentially useless dont have any perf/value. Also how is the total perf/value for the entire system?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Something that is essentially useless dont have any perf/value. Also how is the total perf/value for the entire system?

So, in your estimation, is Bay Trail "essentially useless" too?

 

[ShintaiDK]

So, in your estimation, is Bay Trail "essentially useless" too?

I already gave you that answer multiple times before so not sure why you keep asking. For a PC? Utterly worthless! Same goes for Cherrytrail/Braswell for that matter.

 

[eton975]

So, in your estimation, is Bay Trail "essentially useless" too?

In a desktop? Absolutely, Bay Trail is useless. The main reason you use a desktop these days is upgradeability, performance and cheap price. BGA Bay Trail mobos have none of that, and the Sempron 3850 is similar.

You see, it is possible to justify the low performance of these CPUs by saying that they're quite good by tablet or smartphone standards, which are 1/100 or even less than the size of a desktop PC and so can be used anywhere, anytime. So if you're looking for a tablet, Bay Trail is one of the better options.

But why build a desktop with them? You can't just haul around a desktop all day. A Bay Trail desktop has none of the advantages a Bay Trail tablet has. The 15-20W lower power consumption doesn't matter if you're getting less than half the performance.

 

[dark zero]

In a desktop? Absolutely, Bay Trail is useless. The main reason you use a desktop these days is upgradeability, performance and cheap price. BGA Bay Trail mobos have none of that, and the Sempron 3850 is similar.

You see, it is possible to justify the low performance of these CPUs by saying that they're quite good by tablet or smartphone standards, which are 1/100 or even less than the size of a desktop PC and so can be used anywhere, anytime. So if you're looking for a tablet, Bay Trail is one of the better options.

But why build a desktop with them? You can't just haul around a desktop all day. A Bay Trail desktop has none of the advantages a Bay Trail tablet has. The 15-20W lower power consumption doesn't matter if you're getting less than half the performance.

Tablet Bay Trail are in fact SLOWER than Desktop ones since tablet ones can't sustain constant speed.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, these are most likely "donation PCs", hence trying to source them at lowest cost.

I'm still trying to decide which mobo to bundle with them. I want something with HDMI out.

I was going to buy a couple of the ECS ITX AM1 boards, but Newegg voided my order due to lack of stock. They were listed for ~$20.

The MSI mATX would be ~$34 ea, but then I would have to get a mATX case.

And I noticed that Newegg no longer carries the cheaper Xion mATX HTPC cases that used to be ~$40, with a $10 MIR.

 

[dark zero]

Better get the ASUS Boards. Those are the only ones who can be able to OC your chips to become from the Pentium D to something decent like Core 2 Quad Q6600

 

[frozentundra123456]

Did you look at the CPUMark / $ graph? It's pretty high, and considering they are pricing it at ~$36, and I'm getting them for ~$20, and might even overclock them, well, the value is definitely there.

And a Bay Trail tablet is perfectly usable for basic web browsing. I have no real issues with my HP Stream 7, except it limits how many tabs you can useably have and switch between in Firefox, due to 1GB of RAM. If I put 4-8GB of RAM in an AM1 box, that shouldn't be an issue.

Yea, Larry, no offense meant, but value is only meaningful (at least IMO) past a certain minimum performance level. If the user experience is not acceptable, it doesnt really matter how good the value is. It is kind of like gaming on an APU. Yes, you can do it, but so much better experience is available for such a small additional cost.

And yes, I have a Bay Trail tablet, and since it is one of the cheapo 60.00 Winbook models from Microcenter, it is acceptable in a small device, but no way would I want to live with it in even a laptop, much less a desktop.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yea, Larry, no offense meant, but value is only meaningful (at least IMO) past a certain minimum performance level. If the user experience is not acceptable, it doesnt really matter how good the value is. It is kind of like gaming on an APU. Yes, you can do it, but so much better experience is available for such a small additional cost.

And yes, I have a Bay Trail tablet, and since it is one of the cheapo 60.00 Winbook models from Microcenter, it is acceptable in a small device, but no way would I want to live with it in even a laptop, much less a desktop.

I respect your opinion. But I actually don't think that these will be unacceptable for web browsing. Gaming, maybe.

Your BT tablet has a Passmark ST score of around 300. These quad-cores score 500+ ST. If I can get an OC on them, so much the better.

I've used those Winbook tablets as a make-shift desktop PC. It actually wasn't too bad, except for the 1GB of RAM. With 4GB of RAM and a 120GB SSD, I think that these rigs won't be too bad to use.

 

[Shivansps]

Yeah the tablet BT get really low scores, so much low that a J1800 might actually outperform them, BUT they are still usable.

 

[myocardia]

With my Athlon 5350 power delta at the main is 18W with Prime 95 and 16W with Luxmark CPU + GPU, this yield barely 13-15W at the SoC level.

This is absolutely not possible. If running Luxmark actually pulls 16W 'at the main', then the entire computer is using a maximum of 14.4W of DC power, and that's only if you have a PSU that's 90% efficient at those ultra-low levels.

From that 14.4W, you have to not only power the APU, but also a harddrive or SSD, motherboard, two sticks of RAM, as well as the slightly higher performance iGPU that the 5350 comes with. You're looking at a maximum of 10W or maybe 10.5-10.75W for both the CPU and the video. At idle, I'm sure that the entire system uses no more than that, but while running a power virus? That's awfully hard to believe, especially for a 2 Ghz quadcore, that also has decent graphics (for an iGPU), and is also built on 28nm.

Anyway 2.5-2.6 is doable within 20W apparently..

I don't see how that is possible, either. Hell, being able to do ~2.6Ghz on even 25W, for the APU alone on a 28nm desktop part that has been overclocked by 27%, would be miraculous, at least in my opinion.*

*That is assuming you also meant while running the Luxmark power virus, overclocked. If you only meant the power draw while gaming @2.5-2.6 Ghz, that doesn't sound ridiculous.