AMD Athlon 5150 Kabini - cat, Jaguar or more fun?

[PPB]

if i was going to use these as a render farm, i would boot off flash(your data will be on shared storage) and use a DC power setup.

That, my friend is actually a good idea.

Still I'm not really convinced from other 2 inevitable platform costs (RAM/Mobo).

 

[Abwx]

One can measure the power supply losses whith no load, just unplug the PSU from MB and other items, and power it on using a wire to short the green wire to ground (connect it to a a black wire) on the 24 pin connector.

 

[itsmydamnation]

62W with CPU @ 2.7Ghz (+205mV offset, RAM @ 1.65V 2288Mhz)

AMD should be releasing something like that as a higher end option for 2nd/3rd world. For ultimate budget should also include S-video with RCA adaptor 😀

 

[cbn]

62W with CPU @ 2.7Ghz (+205mV offset, RAM @ 1.65V 2288Mhz)

AMD should be releasing something like that as a higher end option for 2nd/3rd world. For ultimate budget should also include S-video with RCA adaptor 😀

That is an interesting idea. I like the concept behind that, but If 2.7 Ghz (or maybe more realistically 2.2 to 2.5 Ghz) I would definitely say the die could be dual core and with a smaller iGPU.

Same idea goes for Intel.

Smaller die size run at higher frequency, but keep TDP manageable at 25 watts.

(As I understand it this would basically be the opposite of mobile where the die area is larger but the voltage and fequency are both lower.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

That is an interesting idea. I like the concept behind that, but If 2.7 Ghz (or maybe more realistically 2.2 to 2.5 Ghz) I would definitely say the die could be dual core and with a smaller iGPU.

Same idea goes for Intel.

Smaller die size run at higher frequency, but keep TDP manageable at 25 watts.

(As I understand it this would basically be the opposite of mobile where the die area is larger but the voltage and fequency are both lower.)

I think that I see what you're saying. Why don't they optimize purely for cost, rather than absolute performance / watt. Keep die size small, and up the voltage to up the freq until they have a viable desktop-class part.

 

[cbn]

I think that I see what you're saying. Why don't they optimize purely for cost, rather than absolute performance / watt. Keep die size small, and up the voltage to up the freq until they have a viable desktop-class part.

Yes that is what I am thinking.

Also assuming the Puma Core SOCs will be compatible with socket AM1:

1.) Maybe AMD could even save up some of the Beema/Mullins chips (built at TSMC) with too many defects for mobile and repurpose them for the AM1 socket (alongside the dedicated DT Puma core SOCs that I believe will be built at GF).

2.) I would even consider a single core Beema with 64 GCN stream processors (packaged as AM1 socket chip, of course) if AMD could boost clocks high enough to compensate. I'm thinking a single Puma core might need a pretty high CPU clock though, but at 2+ Ghz I'm sure it would get the job done for basic web browsing while still being able to come in at 25 watt TDP.

 

[cbn]

Actually the more I think about it, having the socketed cat cores (ie, AM1) really makes sense when the possibility of using severely die harvested SOCs arises.

Where I would never buy a single cat core SOC as BGA, I would definitely consider if the same single core were socketed (Then at a later time I could switch to dual core or quad core as the need arises).

With this mentioned, the price of the high clocked single core would have to be really good though.

 

[Chupacabra333]

Right now I'm testing a -120mV undervolt at 2100Mhz and it looks stable in Prime 95. I doubt any downclocking would be necessary. From a noise perspective, the stock cooler is dead silent when configured properly. It only needs to operate in the 1000-1300RPM range to keep the CPU cool (max RPM is 3300)

I'm a bit concerned by coil whine noise, but I won't give any details on that before I change my PSU this week.

Hi Coercitiv, so I´ve had issues with my system If all energy options are enabled (AMD Cool & Quiet, Core Performance Boost and C6 State). If those options are ON, the system will definitively freeze and reboot.

System runs fine with those options disabled. So I would like to know how much undervolt would be safe even for gaming on the Athlon 5150.

My whole system:

AMD Athlon 5150 (With Integrated R3 Series Radeon HD 8400)
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Jaguar/AMD-Athlon 5150 - AD5150JAH44HM.html

Asus AM1I-A Mini itx mobo (latest BIOS 0603)
http://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/AM1IA/

4GB Corsair Vengeance 1600MHZ
http://www.corsair.com/en-us/vengeance-8gb-dual-channel-ddr3-memory-kit-cmz8gx3m2a1600c9b

Western Digital 320GB SATA 2
http://www.primelec.com/wd-wd3200av...desktop-hard-drive-hp-484054-003#.VUZQNJOJjDc

Cooler Master 110 Mini
http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mini-itx-mini-series/mini110/

O.S. Windows 8.1 (HD Set to IDE).

Hope you can help me.

 

[dark zero]

That is an interesting idea. I like the concept behind that, but If 2.7 Ghz (or maybe more realistically 2.2 to 2.5 Ghz) I would definitely say the die could be dual core and with a smaller iGPU.

Same idea goes for Intel.

Smaller die size run at higher frequency, but keep TDP manageable at 25 watts.

(As I understand it this would basically be the opposite of mobile where the die area is larger but the voltage and fequency are both lower.)

Sorry, but Intel wants you to buy their outdated and pretty bad crap (Celeron N or J) and throw it out every 6 to 9 months since they are unusable.
At least, they sell decent Celerons at the same prices.. the problem is to find a CHEAP mini ITX MB.

 

[coercitiv]

Hi Coercitiv, so I´ve had issues with my system If all energy options are enabled (AMD Cool & Quiet, Core Performance Boost and C6 State). If those options are ON, the system will definitively freeze and reboot.

System runs fine with those options disabled. So I would like to know how much undervolt would be safe even for gaming on the Athlon 5150.

Well, I'm still on BIOS 0505, since my machine is set on HTPC duty, so my experience might not be 100% helpful, but I clearly recall not having to disable CnQ or C6 even when overclocking. I also don't think CPB does anything for Kabini, since the CPU doesn't have any "turbo" features. It's probably activated on my machine as well though.

That said, can you give us a little bit more info?

1. When does it freeze, during POST or after Windows loads? (immediately after boot or while using programs?)
2. Is your voltage set to AUTO when you attempt to enable the 3 options mentioned above? Also, I presume you're talking about stock speeds.
3. Have you tried enabling them one by one? Does enabling just one of the three options lead to system instability?

 

[Chupacabra333]

Well, I'm still on BIOS 0505, since my machine is set on HTPC duty, so my experience might not be 100% helpful, but I clearly recall not having to disable CnQ or C6 even when overclocking. I also don't think CPB does anything for Kabini, since the CPU doesn't have any "turbo" features. It's probably activated on my machine as well though.

That said, can you give us a little bit more info?

1. When does it freeze, during POST or after Windows loads? (immediately after boot or while using programs?)
2. Is your voltage set to AUTO when you attempt to enable the 3 options mentioned above? Also, I presume you're talking about stock speeds.
3. Have you tried enabling them one by one? Does enabling just one of the three options lead to system instability?

Thanks for your quick reply Coercitiv, the CPU Core Voltage variation is the main reason of the system hangs when iddle to low task (never at gaming), but I wasnt able to find the cause of this. About C6, I don´t know If It has a real impact on the system but I prefer this option disabled (might gain a couple of watts on power consumption). My friend was a huge backup when I first build this thing. They also said that could be RAM related but Im not willing to buy that right now.

BTW: DO NOT UPGRADE TO LATEST BIOS UPDATE 0701, It deletes D.O.C.P. on the A.I. Tweaker. That happened to my buddy. I was so close to upgrade since I was still looking for a solution. Again, I don´t know If his problem was an isolated case. Havent found anything related to that BIOS issue on the web.

Right now Core Voltage is at 1.272 (lowered 0.0300 on BIOS).

Im gonna enable C6 again and see what happens. But yeah, the CPU Core Voltage variation with AMD Cool & Quiet is the main problem here, maybe the PSU cant handle those ups and downs.

I know the system could pull even less power If It worked like It should, but Im happy I found a solution after 2 freakin months or even more (even If the Core Voltage has to be a constant number) I was going crazy. Everyday or week I had system hangs and reboots. I could have had a Biostar J1800 with Integrated CPU for the price of the Asus Board, but It wasnt enough power on the graphic side...

Regards.

 

[Chupacabra333]

Well, I'm still on BIOS 0505, since my machine is set on HTPC duty, so my experience might not be 100% helpful, but I clearly recall not having to disable CnQ or C6 even when overclocking. I also don't think CPB does anything for Kabini, since the CPU doesn't have any "turbo" features. It's probably activated on my machine as well though.

That said, can you give us a little bit more info?

1. When does it freeze, during POST or after Windows loads? (immediately after boot or while using programs?)
2. Is your voltage set to AUTO when you attempt to enable the 3 options mentioned above? Also, I presume you're talking about stock speeds.
3. Have you tried enabling them one by one? Does enabling just one of the three options lead to system instability?

Well, I would really appreciate If you could tell me how much undervolt is safe even for gaming, stock core voltage is 1.296 for the Athlon 5150, right now Is at 1.272v (-0.0300v).

C6 and PSS Support (AMD Cool & Quiet) are not at option, I´ve already double check this (one by one). Both have control of the APU Core Voltage which seems kinda odd. Dont care If my system consumes a bit more watts like this. There´s no freakin way I´m going RMA, cant isolate the problem even more but I dont care right now. So If you have any thoughts for the right undervolt please reply this.

Regards.

 

[coercitiv]

Well, I would really appreciate If you could tell me how much undervolt is safe even for gaming, stock core voltage is 1.296 for the Athlon 5150, right now Is at 1.272v (-0.0300v).

C6 and PSS Support (AMD Cool & Quiet) are not at option, I´ve already double check this (one by one). Both have control of the APU Core Voltage which seems kinda odd. Dont care If my system consumes a bit more watts like this. There´s no freakin way I´m going RMA, cant isolate the problem even more but I dont care right now. So If you have any thoughts for the right undervolt please reply this.

I don't think you have a problem with your undervolt, that 30mV is insignificant, something else must be at play here. I'm saying this because my 5350 has been working rock stable at 2.1Ghz with 1.2V for over 1 year, that's a 100mV undervolt. It's working as a HTPC unit and stays on 24/7. As far as 5150 goes, considering a stock speed of 1.6Ghz, it should undervolt close to 1.1V, likely even lower with a good chip. When playing around with mine, I had no problem running 1.5Ghz at 1V.

The worst thing about your problem is not being able to enable C6, that's a lot more power savings than undervolting. Unfortunately I cannot enter BIOS to compare settings with you, since my TV does not display anything during POST and I no longer have another monitor available. (that system will likely run as is until I decide to upgrade it to Win 10)

 

[Chupacabra333]

I don't think you have a problem with your undervolt, that 30mV is insignificant, something else must be at play here. I'm saying this because my 5350 has been working rock stable at 2.1Ghz with 1.2V for over 1 year, that's a 100mV undervolt. It's working as a HTPC unit and stays on 24/7. As far as 5150 goes, considering a stock speed of 1.6Ghz, it should undervolt close to 1.1V, likely even lower with a good chip. When playing around with mine, I had no problem running 1.5Ghz at 1V.

The worst thing about your problem is not being able to enable C6, that's a lot more power savings than undervolting. Unfortunately I cannot enter BIOS to compare settings with you, since my TV does not display anything during POST and I no longer have another monitor available. (that system will likely run as is until I decide to upgrade it to Win 10)

Thanks a lot. Its at 1.2v right now and I can do gaming with no problems. I thought maybe the APU would run a little bit cooler like this, but the temp readings are the same. Yes, Its a shame that C6 and Cool & Quiet have to be disabled, but theres no other way. I keep thinking that maybe the power consumption is so small when iddle (with all energy options enabled) that the PSU can´t handle those up and dows. But the same problem happened with a better PSU (Corsair CX430 V2) so who knows. I dealt with the re-reseller who sold me the mobo and they said that with their HW and with my combo (AM1 mobo and Athlon 5150) didnt found a thing. Maybe they didnt even use the system a lot...

Because of those situations, I really don´t want to go through RMA. Better undervolt a bit and see how much time this HW lives.

Thanks a lot. I hope the link I gave above help some people with similar problems on AM1.

Regards.

 

[waltchan]

Athlon 5150 runs stable at its minimum voltage of 0.97V (not kidding) and Sempron 3850 at 0.85V (not kidding again), last time I built two fanless PCs for them with fanless mATX power supply (yes, I opened up the power supply to remove the fan).

 

[waltchan]

Nice, this should reduce dynamic power comsumption by 20% or so , should be about 5-6W at high loading, that s halfway from Beema..:thumbsup:

Sempron 3850 at minimum 0.85V only runs at 3-4W at high-loading. It's the most greenest AM1 APU due to its low 1.3GHz clock speed.

 

[waltchan]

For further interest, the Biostar AM1 boards are capable in disabling cores and undervolt APUs. I disabled three cores in Sempron 3850 and underclock it to 800 MHz minimum speed, and set the voltage to 0.73V stable minimum. It zips only 1.5W of high-load power.

A single-core 800 MHz Sempron 3850 with three cores disabled at 0.73V has an estimated single-thread score of 285 (on par with C-50), and total benchmark score at 262, all still higher than Pentium III.

 

[Chupacabra333]

Athlon 5150 runs stable at its minimum voltage of 0.97V (not kidding) and Sempron 3850 at 0.85V (not kidding again), last time I built two fanless PCs for them with fanless mATX power supply (yes, I opened up the power supply to remove the fan).

Wow!! Those are some crazy numbers :biggrin:, makes me wanna test the 5150 at 1.1v.

Thanks for the feedback!!

 

[VirtualLarry]

For further interest, the Biostar AM1 boards are capable in disabling cores and undervolt APUs. I disabled three cores in Sempron 3850 and underclock it to 800 MHz minimum speed, and set the voltage to 0.73V stable minimum. It zips only 1.5W of high-load power.

A single-core 800 MHz Sempron 3850 with three cores disabled at 0.73V has an estimated single-thread score of 285 (on par with C-50), and total benchmark score at 262, all still higher than Pentium III.

That's... not all that useful, is it? Having a CPU that slow wouldn't be any good for desktop tasks like modern web browsing. Maybe a low-powered x86 router box? Interesting data-point regardless. Or maybe a data-gathering weather station?

 

[waltchan]

Wow!! Those are some crazy numbers :biggrin:, makes me wanna test the 5150 at 1.1v.

Thanks for the feedback!!

5150 is stable at 1.00V exact, after more than 5 I put in. 3850 can go 0.90V as well.

 

[waltchan]

That's... not all that useful, is it? Having a CPU that slow wouldn't be any good for desktop tasks like modern web browsing. Maybe a low-powered x86 router box? Interesting data-point regardless. Or maybe a data-gathering weather station?

Yes, you're right. I currently run a 1.00 GHz Sempron 3850 with all 4 cores enabled, and voltage setting is at 0.79V full-stable. It's actually pretty decent performance, identical to E1-2100 but with two additional cores.

Increasing more than 1.00 GHz requires larger voltage requirement, and ratio % increases sharply (and becomes less-efficient I found out). If going for 1.30GHz, it requires 0.88V full-stable, about 0.1V higher, which is a big chunk. If 700 MHz underclock is available, it requires 0.74V, only 0.05V less than 1.00 GHz 0.79V setting.

From 700MHz to 1.00GHz is 30% improvement, while 1.00GHz to 1.30GHz is 23% improvement.

So, all the AM1 APUs underclock and fixed at 1.00 GHz give the #1 most energy-efficient and performance available.

 

[coercitiv]

5150 is 99% guaranteed stable at 1.00V exact, after more than 5 I put in. 3850 can go 0.90V guaranteed as well.

You may want to refrain your enthusiasm when offering "guaranteed" undervolt figures for other people on the web. Remember this data will stay around for quite a long time, many forum visitors will get to read it, some of which have little experience with PCs.

These people might take figures for granted, use them and pay the price later on. (system instability, data loss) It costs you nothing to be a bit conservative on undervolt/overclock figures and encourage other readers to properly test if their chip can go further.

 

[waltchan]

You may want to refrain your enthusiasm when offering "guaranteed" undervolt figures for other people on the web. Remember this data will stay around for quite a long time, many forum visitors will get to read it, some of which have little experience with PCs.

These people might take figures for granted, use them and pay the price later on. (system instability, data loss) It costs you nothing to be a bit conservative on undervolt/overclock figures and encourage other readers to properly test if their chip can go further.

Post edited and correct. Thanks for the head-up.

 

[Abwx]

Sempron 3850 at minimum 0.85V only runs at 3-4W at high-loading. It's the most greenest AM1 APU due to its low 1.3GHz clock speed.

I ve bought an AM1/Athlon 5350 since, power usage is effectively much lower than expected and apparently at same values than a Beema, must be the same chip but with turbo and security processor disabled, there should be some "refresh" soon according to a leaked roadmap, surely higher clocked and eventualy with said features enabled.

 

[coercitiv]

I ve bought an AM1/Athlon 5350 since, power usage is effectively much lower than expected and apparently at same values than a Beema, must be the same chip but with turbo and security processor disabled, there should be some "refresh" soon according to a leaked roadmap, surely higher clocked and eventualy with said features enabled.

Here's a CPU-Z screen for my 5350 bought right after launch, we can compare revision info if you wish. However, I doubt your chip is Beema, since that is manufactured at GloFo. Would be nice if it were, although why not bump clocks by 150-300Mhz and make a new SKU out of it?

The CPU is not stock, it has a slightly higher 21x multi and -100mV offset. (1.3V stock, 1.2V set in BIOS, the rest is VDroop)