If by all-rounder you mean I can hardboil an egg on one as well as run various x86 software, then yes, you may be on to something there. Otherwise, I'll have to insert the ubiquitous "link?" which of course you'll ignore altogether. You should know the steps to this dance by now, I'm sure.
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AMD Anti-Trust Lawsuit: Chipzilla Strikes Back !!!
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imported_TheRipper
Member
LOL, Busted!!! And it looks like porky gets his bacon fried there also. 😀
IamTHEsnake
Senior member
Dothan?
Are you felixdacat?
Man that guy was a character.
Are you felixdacat?
Man that guy was a character.
Pandamonium
Golden Member
Porkster, you tool, think before you write.
I'm sure that you'll read this, since I believe that your "gotta go" is a disguised "I concede"
Your white car analogy could have been useful, if you rethink it a little.
Intel is like a 19th century US railroad tycoon. It established a useful mode of transportation in the form of locomotives (CPUs), and poured generous resources into the construction of the country's railways (x86). Nevermind the government subsidies it received for this work. The entire infrastructure for railroad-based transportation has become a de-facto standard.
Fast forward a hundred years, and think of AMD as a nascent railroad company. Its first locomotives (CPUs) are poorly manufactured clones of those offered by Intel. After several revisions, it manages to engineer locomotives that still use the same tracks (x86) as the de-facto standard, but now quality control is effective. A couple more years pass, and AMD develops locomotives that are faster (higher IPC) and more fuel efficient (power-consumption) than those offered by Intel. The only advantage Intel locomotives hold is in hauling extremely heavy loads (video encoding).
Due to the head start that Intel has had over AMD, it has amassed enough marketing clout to offer generous discounts to some of the largest railroad transportation companies. In fact, it has an exclusive deal with AMTRAK (Dell).
AMD, in good faith, believes that its superior technology will eventually allow it to leverage its market share. AMD continues to innovate and develop its product, and produces the world's first hybrid train (A64). To boot, it is designed to still use current railways (x86-64).
But that doesn't change AMD's situation. Intel locomotives still dominate the market, and AMD lacks the financial depth to directly engage Intel's discount schemes. Instead, it raises the antitrust flag.
This scenario is most analagous to the AMD/Intel relationship in the CPU world. Sure, Intel created x86 (the rails), and AMD is free to develop its own standard (like MagLev), but AMD lacks the capital to reinvent the wheel, so to speak. At this point, no company has the wherewithal to create a new standard.
Even Intel failed. Intel's Itanium is (as I understand it) a superior technology for its purposes. Nothing AMD has is close to the Itanium. Yet Intel has failed to shift the market to its new instruction set because x86 is too far-reaching. For you to propose that AMD can develop, promote, and distribute an entirely new instruction set from the ground up is not only far-fetched, but also preposterous.
QED.
edit: typo
I'm sure that you'll read this, since I believe that your "gotta go" is a disguised "I concede"
Your white car analogy could have been useful, if you rethink it a little.
Intel is like a 19th century US railroad tycoon. It established a useful mode of transportation in the form of locomotives (CPUs), and poured generous resources into the construction of the country's railways (x86). Nevermind the government subsidies it received for this work. The entire infrastructure for railroad-based transportation has become a de-facto standard.
Fast forward a hundred years, and think of AMD as a nascent railroad company. Its first locomotives (CPUs) are poorly manufactured clones of those offered by Intel. After several revisions, it manages to engineer locomotives that still use the same tracks (x86) as the de-facto standard, but now quality control is effective. A couple more years pass, and AMD develops locomotives that are faster (higher IPC) and more fuel efficient (power-consumption) than those offered by Intel. The only advantage Intel locomotives hold is in hauling extremely heavy loads (video encoding).
Due to the head start that Intel has had over AMD, it has amassed enough marketing clout to offer generous discounts to some of the largest railroad transportation companies. In fact, it has an exclusive deal with AMTRAK (Dell).
AMD, in good faith, believes that its superior technology will eventually allow it to leverage its market share. AMD continues to innovate and develop its product, and produces the world's first hybrid train (A64). To boot, it is designed to still use current railways (x86-64).
But that doesn't change AMD's situation. Intel locomotives still dominate the market, and AMD lacks the financial depth to directly engage Intel's discount schemes. Instead, it raises the antitrust flag.
This scenario is most analagous to the AMD/Intel relationship in the CPU world. Sure, Intel created x86 (the rails), and AMD is free to develop its own standard (like MagLev), but AMD lacks the capital to reinvent the wheel, so to speak. At this point, no company has the wherewithal to create a new standard.
Even Intel failed. Intel's Itanium is (as I understand it) a superior technology for its purposes. Nothing AMD has is close to the Itanium. Yet Intel has failed to shift the market to its new instruction set because x86 is too far-reaching. For you to propose that AMD can develop, promote, and distribute an entirely new instruction set from the ground up is not only far-fetched, but also preposterous.
QED.
edit: typo
WhoBeDaPlaya
Diamond Member
I'm no AMD fanboi, but AMD did own Intel back in the day. Remember the 386 DX-33 vs. DX-40? 😛
I kind of like the analogy as well...I would change it only slightly.
If the tracks are x86, then everyone can use them...
But, if the train stations got paid every time a train pulled in, and if the Intel company paid the Stationmasters to either only sell Intel tickets or put the AMD ticket counter inside the Janitor's closet, then I think it would be much closer.
😀
If the tracks are x86, then everyone can use them...
But, if the train stations got paid every time a train pulled in, and if the Intel company paid the Stationmasters to either only sell Intel tickets or put the AMD ticket counter inside the Janitor's closet, then I think it would be much closer.
😀
imported_michaelpatrick33
Platinum Member
If I wasn't so tired, I would laugh at this illogical post. When a company A pays/threatens other companies due to marketshare and financial resources, not to buy company B products that is unethical and constitutes anti-competitive practices. It doesn't matter if company B can go into other markets. They are being illegally squeezed out of this one.
By your logic, Porkster, Microsoft has done nothing wrong and they should be able to squeeze any company that decides to use Linux. Linux can run 32bit X86 OS's but if Microsoft tells you that they will not sell you Windows if you sell Linux what do you do? HMMMM, 85% sales or 15 sales. Being able to sell a product to any company has nothing to do with being illegally pushed out of business due to bribery/kickbacks/anti-competitive practices.
I never saw one AMD fanboy complain when the old 3200 AXP got beaten by the 3.2 C. Yes the AXP would win a few benchmarks like business apps etc, but no one moaned.
Now the tables are turned and jesus there's this upheaval that Intel cant be getting this badly beaten. Go search the reviews, K8's overall will beat any P4's and PD's on the majority of tests. So how does this make the Pentium 4 the better all rounder? The fact is uses more power, gives less performance, creates more heat and throttles in some cases.
Dell cant use AMD for a few reasons. AMD's capacity and pressure from Intel. Simple, Dell knows AMD's got the ball in thier park, you only have to read a few of the 100's reviews out there on the K8 since it's launch in sept 2003 to see it's come up trumps in the majority of tests. To say they'v not proven themselfs is 100% B.S. Proven themselves ?
Horror strories ? what like ? Do AMD CPU's throttle ? generate stupid amounts of heat ? does there new generation of CPU fail to outperform their last ?.
Intel invented X86, what does it say about them when a small company in debt up to it's eye balls, turns out a CPU that performs better?
I may come across as anti Intel but that?s not my intension. I just think it's hard to choose them over AMD right now and find it even harder to believe there getting defended by the recent infestation of trolls. Intel has dropped the ball for a while, so live with it.
I may come across as anti Intel but that?s not my intension. I just think it's hard to choose them over AMD right now and find it even harder to believe there getting defended by the recent infestation of trolls. Intel has dropped the ball for a while, so live with it.
I would like to add the Porkster is also hated at THG.
And the facts are:
1-AMD has a better solution than Intel in most cases, especially with Dual core.
2-Intel isn't playing fair play. They are using their money to ilegally push AMD out of the market. They threaten PC makers and stores and use bribes to make PC makers sell only Intel chips.
Intel is scared, and lets face it, they got owned by a company 10 times smaller. Intel is using ilegal tactics, I hope AMD wins.
And the facts are:
1-AMD has a better solution than Intel in most cases, especially with Dual core.
2-Intel isn't playing fair play. They are using their money to ilegally push AMD out of the market. They threaten PC makers and stores and use bribes to make PC makers sell only Intel chips.
Intel is scared, and lets face it, they got owned by a company 10 times smaller. Intel is using ilegal tactics, I hope AMD wins.
There you go. Do you really think AMD could supply the number of chips Intel does for Dell now? Of course they couldn't. Neither could they do it at such a low price.
This bazooka crap about Dell being blindly forced in to Intel is just that. Baloney. If AMD had the capacity and could offer something even remotely close to Intel...but they don't, and they can't, so this is all a moot point.
I'd like to see Dell offer AMD machines at some point, but, realistically, I don't think it is going to happen.
TerryMathews
Lifer
#1 is that AMD lacks the capital to build a warehouse in Dell's factory.
Let that sink in for a sec.
Yes, Intel has a warehouse located inside Dell's factory. If Dell needs 10k P4 processors, they walk over to the Intel counter and buy them. No delivery wait time.
If you go by analogy of cloning should not be allowed, then Rolex shouldn't exist because they didn't invent the watch. Who are they to tell what watches shops shold sell.
Anyways Intel didn't invent chips, they just made a different type of chips. AMD got on that train.
It's like Mc'Donalds who invented fast food should be allowed to bully Burger King, Wendy's and any other chain that copied them. They didn't invented restaurants, just a way of serving differently in theirs, and it got copied because of it's success.
The rumor is Dell would really like to be able to sell opterons system now that destroy current Xeons in their server class computers....Dont think that this would never happen. Dell may have amicably entered the the exclusivity deal to get encredibly low pricing. MDF's, and first dibs on the new chips of INtel but I am sure they feel like they made a deal with the Devil now. Here you run a major company and you have to ask someone else for premision to sell some other cpus. I am sure the intimidation is there now. Dell needs high volume since they sell high volume. can you imagine what INtel could due to them if they held back volume like they did to HP and ACER???
ender11122
Golden Member
But this is what makes Intel's dealings illegal. They are using the fact that no other company can produce the amount of chips needed to force retailers into exclusivity. This stiffles competition and is in violation of antitrust laws.
Zebo
Elite Member
They can't idiot. In 1982 when IBM choose Intel's so-called x86 chip architecture IBM demanded that Intel and AMD share production/tech as the condition upon IBM accepting Intels chip. When Intel has flaked they lost millions in court and AMD no longer even has to pay royalty as in the past.. Intel will lose again.
AMD stupid? AMD is #2 microprocessor producer in the world.. Name one thing you're 2nd best in the world at besides trolling right after Porky?
Continuity27
Senior member
Define affordable. Microprocessors costed more in the past. Much more. Comparitive processors back then costed $600 to ours that cost $500, and that's not even considering inflation and other economy adjustments.
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