AMD Announces New Dresden 300mm Wafer Plant

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chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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Rahvin:

Neither of us has the numbers to know whether it would have been a good deal for N.Y. But assuming an average salary of $60,000 per year per employee x 1,000 = $60 million per year for the citizens of the state. Add to that the cost of unemployment compensation, medical care etc. for the unemployed if AMD didn't come (the case) and the break even point is less than 5 years. This is a very simplistic and simple arithmetical calculation, but it demonstrates that the argument for keeping AMD here has at least some superficial merit. I'm sure the N.Y. folks gave it serious consideration. Something else we don't know is whether the state of New York and the county had enough money to pay the $3 billion. I'm assuming not. Most of the states are broke right now. It ain't just Cali.

I realize the free trade issues are very complex, but darn it, Americans need jobs. Bush isn't doing squat to make that happen and the states can't make it happen.

-Robert
 

Cypherdude1

Member
Mar 19, 2003
116
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No, it's not weird. It is normal for American soldiers to be the last to start another war. I've seen this before in history. President Eisenhower was also a reluctant warrior. Colin Powell, even during the first Gulf War, did not want to go to war. Colin Powell is a Vietnam Vet. Those who know war best are the most reluctant to return to it. President W Bush was in the Texas National Guard. He never went to war in Vietnam.
Originally posted by: chess9
CypherDude1:

Nice argument. And, we have many, many, many pressing intrastructure and social needs in this country. One-Thousand high tech jobs would have made a dent in those unemployment numbers as well.

By the way, and somewhat off topic, I was at the VA yesterday and walked into a crowded room of mostly Vietnam era vets discussing Iraq. I kept my mouth shut-hard to believe I know-but was truly amazed at the large number of guys who weren't on Bush's side. Only one guy (missing a leg, but still had a sharp tongue) was arguing for the Iraq War. Truly wierd....

-Robert
 

Cypherdude1

Member
Mar 19, 2003
116
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There are differences in the way Germany and the USA perform their unemployment rate counts. In Germany, anyone who works less than 15 hours a week is considered unemployed. The USA counts their unemployed through the state unemployment offices. If someone no longer returns to the office, he is counted as "employed". If everyone in the USA who was unemployed were to go to the office, the unemployment rate would increase to a level no one can even fathom. There's also the fact the USA has been turned into a "service economy." In layman's speak, that means high paying manufacturing jobs have been exported to China, Taiwan, Mexico, Malaysia, Korea, Japan, Indonesia, India and Pakistan. :D We are left with crappy paying jobs which have no benefits. Since the high of 2001, the USA has lost 12% of all high-tech jobs. The USA has lost 770,000 high-tech jobs since 2001! If you want to count Burger King or Taco Bell as a job, go right ahead.
Originally posted by: Roger
In Germany, a peaceful, non-warmongering country now, you get jobs. In the USA, with a hardline, conservative, administration, you get war and death.
You really need to STFU and think before you post any more crap. Germany's unemployment rate hits all time high
On Wednesday, he and the rest of the country learned that the number of jobless people climbed to 4.623 million in January
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Cypherdude1
There are differences in the way Germany and the USA perform their unemployment rate counts. In Germany, anyone who works less than 15 hours a week is considered unemployed. The USA counts their unemployed through the state unemployment offices. If someone no longer returns to the office, he is counted as "employed". If everyone in the USA who was unemployed were to go to the office, the unemployment rate would increase to a level no one can even fathom. There's also the fact the USA has been turned into a "service economy." In layman's speak, that means high paying manufacturing jobs have been exported to China, Taiwan, Mexico, Malaysia, Korea, Japan, Indonesia, India and Pakistan. :D We are left with crappy paying jobs which have no benefits. Since the high of 2001, the USA has lost 12% of all high-tech jobs. The USA has lost 770,000 high-tech jobs since 2001! If you want to count Burger King or Taco Bell as a job, go right ahead.
Originally posted by: Roger
In Germany, a peaceful, non-warmongering country now, you get jobs. In the USA, with a hardline, conservative, administration, you get war and death.
You really need to STFU and think before you post any more crap. Germany's unemployment rate hits all time high
On Wednesday, he and the rest of the country learned that the number of jobless people climbed to 4.623 million in January
actually the unemployment is done by survery and not by the state unemployment offices.
If you are unemployed and looking for work, you are counted, even i fyou dont file a claim.
 

Cypherdude1

Member
Mar 19, 2003
116
0
0
LOL. Where did you get that??? :Q The country could never begin to afford such surveys every quarter. No such survey has ever been taken in California. I guess D.C. just doesn't care about us all the way over here. :brokenheart:
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Cypherdude1
There are differences in the way Germany and the USA perform their unemployment rate counts. In Germany, anyone who works less than 15 hours a week is considered unemployed. The USA counts their unemployed through the state unemployment offices. If someone no longer returns to the office, he is counted as "employed". If everyone in the USA who was unemployed were to go to the office, the unemployment rate would increase to a level no one can even fathom. There's also the fact the USA has been turned into a "service economy." In layman's speak, that means high paying manufacturing jobs have been exported to China, Taiwan, Mexico, Malaysia, Korea, Japan, Indonesia, India and Pakistan. :D We are left with crappy paying jobs which have no benefits. Since the high of 2001, the USA has lost 12% of all high-tech jobs. The USA has lost 770,000 high-tech jobs since 2001! If you want to count Burger King or Taco Bell as a job, go right ahead.
Originally posted by: Roger
In Germany, a peaceful, non-warmongering country now, you get jobs. In the USA, with a hardline, conservative, administration, you get war and death.
You really need to STFU and think before you post any more crap. Germany's unemployment rate hits all time high
On Wednesday, he and the rest of the country learned that the number of jobless people climbed to 4.623 million in January
actually the unemployment is done by survery and not by the state unemployment offices.
If you are unemployed and looking for work, you are counted, even i fyou dont file a claim.
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: rjain
shadohawk: So would you care to stop hiding the details of your sexual life? It can't be legitimate if you're hiding it from us. :)
as bad, inept, and totally senseless an analogy as i have ever seen you use.

Originally posted by: rjain
Anyway, the point is not that Germany's unemployment is high now, but that they're trying to inject some stimulus to fix it (even if they're not removing the policies that keep it down). If we had that plant, we'd have the jobs. But since the government is too interested in getting rid of secular governments, we don't have those jobs. Sure, defense contractors are doing well, but it's not like there's much of a multiplier on that. You get the money spent by the government minus the destruction caused by the use of the weapons. If they had the AMD plant, we'd have the money spent by people who buy AMD chips plus the money spent by people who use the services provided on AMD-powered computers.
the money made from the chips at the dresden plant will help the american based company stay open in california and texas, keeping those american workers in their jobs.

plus, considering the liberal propensity of looking at the absolute worst side of things(unless of course it has to do with leftist dogma) had the same tax breaks been given here, the very same people who are whining and complaining about the plant going to dresden would whine and complain about goverment support for big corporations.

 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,510
2
81
LOL. Where did you get that??? The country could never begin to afford such surveys every quarter. No such survey has ever been taken in California. I guess D.C. just doesn't care about us all the way over here.
Charrison is right. Check it out at the US bureau of labor statistics website. You're thinking about the unemployment benefits roll statistics which people say are misleading for the reasons you stated.

Conducting surveys are cheap. There are many private companies that make a business out of taking surveys.

On a different note,

How the heck does it make economic sense for Dresden to give $500Million for 1000 jobs? That's $500,000 per person!
 

Cypherdude1

Member
Mar 19, 2003
116
0
0
Most experts agree unemployment is under reported in the USA for obvious reasons. About the $500 Million in direct grants (giving away) from the German Federal and Saxon state governments: There are several advantages to this. In economics you have a multiplier effect. When you have a base of 1,000 jobs, it creates other jobs in the community. This other jobs take the form of small businesses which cater to the new employees. Also, this plant will be around for many years. Dresden will host this plant for a long time, probably over 10 years. This reduces the cost of the newly created high-tech jobs to below $50K/year. These high paying jobs pay over $75,000/year. Finally, when you have multiple high-tech chip plants in the same area it creates a sort of synergy, as with "Silicon Valley" in central California. If Dresden continues to build high- tech plants, they could become the next Silicon Valley of the 21st century.

Because of an entrenched, backward, and outdated ideology, the federal government would never fund such a project. Congress and the Administration instead only listen to those who give the most, such as Ken Lay of Enron. We, the voters, have been lost in this corrupt process. Instead, we get defense contracts; favoritism in Iraq contracts for Bechtel, Halliburton, and others; and we fight in unproven, unjustified wars. The end result is we are spending $1 Billion a week in Iraq! The results clearly show the differences between the German pacifist and Bush Administration war-like philosophies. These are our choices:
Jobs <======> Death
Jobs <======> Death
Jobs <======> Death
Originally posted by: zephyrprime
LOL. Where did you get that??? The country could never begin to afford such surveys every quarter. No such survey has ever been taken in California. I guess D.C. just doesn't care about us all the way over here.
Charrison is right. Check it out at the US bureau of labor statistics website. You're thinking about the unemployment benefits roll statistics which people say are misleading for the reasons you stated.

Conducting surveys are cheap. There are many private companies that make a business out of taking surveys.

On a different note,

How the heck does it make economic sense for Dresden to give $500Million for 1000 jobs? That's $500,000 per person!
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Conducting surveys are cheap. There are many private companies that make a business out of taking surveys.
Yep. Those companies can earn a nice profit with domestic labor too. Currently, 5,000 completed 18 min phone surveys annually goes for about $165K. Of course there are over 36K attempts involved to attain that number, in some cases. I've also known of a client to pay $1,700 for 450 3-min. surveys after the data is accepted.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
I've looked over the BLS site and notice that 1.6 million workers are not included as unemployed. Of those, over 400,000 are discouraged workers. In addition, we saw no growth in the manufacturing sector (actually lost quite a few jobs there this year) and small growth in the service sector for the second month in a row. From this data I'd say we cannot conclude that a recovery is definitely taking place, though the signs of an anemic recovery are there.

Anyway, those dumb Germans. If they had asked us smart Americans they wouldn't have paid for that AMD plant, but, rather, invested in the war in Iraq, which will pay HUGE dividends.

Yeah, those stupid Germans....

-Robert
 

rjain

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
1,475
0
0
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: rjain
shadohawk: So would you care to stop hiding the details of your sexual life? It can't be legitimate if you're hiding it from us. :)
as bad, inept, and totally senseless an analogy as i have ever seen you use.
So if it's WMDs in question, it can't be legit, but if it's your (and not, of course, Clinton's) sexual life, then it is legit.
the money made from the chips at the dresden plant will help the american based company stay open in california and texas, keeping those american workers in their jobs.
We're not discussing absolutes here. We're discussing whether we want to kill Iraqis or make computer chips.
plus, considering the liberal propensity of looking at the absolute worst side of things(unless of course it has to do with leftist dogma) had the same tax breaks been given here, the very same people who are whining and complaining about the plant going to dresden would whine and complain about goverment support for big corporations.
Well, that's their own stupidity. They don't want a strong, sustainable economy. They just want all the money for themselves, whether the money can buy them anything or not. Oh wait, but then they'll start whining that their money is worthless and it's all the poor peoples' fault for not accepting the worthless money they have as payment for the services they want. :)
 

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