AMD Announces New Dresden 300mm Wafer Plant

Cypherdude1

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Mar 19, 2003
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Thursday November 20, 5:30 am ET
AMD has just announced Dresden, Germany, will be the site for a new advanced 300mm wafer plant. AMD Fab 36 will build the new Athlon 64 CPU's. The German federal and Saxony state governments will offer over $1.2 Billion in loans and over $500 million in straight grants. The factory would be the first new major chip plant in Europe in several years. AMD Fab 36 will employ over 1,000 high tech workers.

During World War 2, Dresden was a nonmilitary target. Dresden had virtually no anti-aircraft guns. Yet, its citizens suffered one of the most massive Allied night and day heavy bombing missions during the entire war. The entire city was set ablaze, burning ghostlike impressions of bodies into the sidewalks, and killing over 100,000 people.

AMD considered building the plant in East Fishkill, New York, but I guess the US federal and New York state governments didn't pony up the cash. This is yet another case of myopia for our USA governments. We spend $1 Billion every single week in Iraq for an unjustified and unfounded war. Ironic, isn't it? If, instead of going to war, we had spent that borrowed $1 Billion a week to create high tech factories, we would have a shortage of high tech labor right now. The only things hardliners bring are death and poverty. Germany smartly decided NOT to go to war. Perhaps they didn't believe the WMD tale. President Bush invaded Iraq because he claimed to the world at the UN and Congress Saddam Hussein had WMD's. Now we don't even hear about "WMD's" anymore.
 

Cypherdude1

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It's not anti-USA. I'm an American so it can't be anti-USA. :D I have voted in nearly every election since I was 18 a number of years ago and I am NOT happy that no WMD's were found in Iraq. About 40% of all Americans are against the war, especially after no WMD's were found in Iraq. :disgust: BTW, the next time you buy an AMD64 CPU, you can thank the German federal and state governments for coughing up the cash. Otherwise, I'm not sure how quickly AMD would have built the new plant without the free cash.
Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
Could do without the anti-US rhetoric but the AMD news is welcomed.
 

Mrburns2007

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Jun 14, 2001
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Do I really need to know that 100,000 people died at Dresden, you should also mention that the Nazi death machine killed 12 million of there own people not to mention the ones that were killed when they invaded other countries.

But truthfully WWII is a long time ago....
 

Cypherdude1

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Mar 19, 2003
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I was giving a single paragraph background on the city. Most people have no idea what happened in Dresden. But then again, most people can't name or recognize the Director of the NSA. I think you are missing the bigger picture here: In Germany, a peaceful, non-warmongering country now, you get jobs. In the USA, with a hardline, conservative, administration, you get war and death. So, these are the choices:
Jobs <======> Death
Jobs <======> Death
Jobs <======> Death
Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
Do I really need to know that 100,000 people died at Dresden, you should also mention that the Nazi death machine killed 12 million of there own people not to mention the ones that were killed when they invaded other countries.

But truthfully WWII is a long time ago....
 

rahvin

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Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: Roger
In Germany, a peaceful, non-warmongering country now, you get jobs. In the USA, with a hardline, conservative, administration, you get war and death.
You really need to STFU and think before you post any more crap.


Germany's unemployment rate hits all time high

On Wednesday, he and the rest of the country learned that the number of jobless people climbed to 4.623 million in January
From Rogers link the German unemployment rate is 11%, contrast this with the high unemployment in the US of 6.1%. We have half the unemployment.
 

dirtboy

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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: Roger
In Germany, a peaceful, non-warmongering country now, you get jobs. In the USA, with a hardline, conservative, administration, you get war and death.
You really need to STFU and think before you post any more crap.


Germany's unemployment rate hits all time high

On Wednesday, he and the rest of the country learned that the number of jobless people climbed to 4.623 million in January
From Rogers link the German unemployment rate is 11%, contrast this with the high unemployment in the US of 6.1%. We have half the unemployment.
They must be in a super-duper-depression!!
 

Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: Roger
In Germany, a peaceful, non-warmongering country now, you get jobs. In the USA, with a hardline, conservative, administration, you get war and death.
You really need to STFU and think before you post any more crap.


Germany's unemployment rate hits all time high

On Wednesday, he and the rest of the country learned that the number of jobless people climbed to 4.623 million in January
From Rogers link the German unemployment rate is 11%, contrast this with the high unemployment in the US of 6.1%. We have half the unemployment.
They must be in a super-duper-depression!!
that, or the fact that the US counts unemployment differently than Germany
 

Shad0hawK

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May 26, 2003
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thanks to the hardliners in charge of this country, i am so impoverished i just bought a car, and upgraded my PC, right after enjoying a nice t-bone.

perhaps more places should be as impoverished in this manner as we are.

as far as WMD goes, we have found plenty of eveidence, mobile labs with hidden compartments, a huge hidden complex that was scubbed clean then abandoned.

of course the libs dismiss them because "the could have been" used for legitimate purposes.

anyone with half a freakin brain realizes things that are hidden are not used for "legitimate" purposes. and the cry "where is the WMD" will change to "FAKE WMD!!!" as soon as any that saddma did not destroy is found.(most likely in the other baathist controlled nation, syria)
 

Shad0hawK

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May 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: FallenHero

that, or the fact that the US counts unemployment differently than Germany
i believe generally both count people that do not have a job as an unemployed person.

as far as germany's problems, it is the usual economic failure that accompanies socialistic policies.



 

sciencewhiz

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Jun 30, 2000
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But everyone knows that the reason for Germany's unemployment was that we destroyed all the factories in Dresden
 

rjain

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May 1, 2003
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shadohawk: So would you care to stop hiding the details of your sexual life? It can't be legitimate if you're hiding it from us. :)

Anyway, the point is not that Germany's unemployment is high now, but that they're trying to inject some stimulus to fix it (even if they're not removing the policies that keep it down). If we had that plant, we'd have the jobs. But since the government is too interested in getting rid of secular governments, we don't have those jobs. Sure, defense contractors are doing well, but it's not like there's much of a multiplier on that. You get the money spent by the government minus the destruction caused by the use of the weapons. If they had the AMD plant, we'd have the money spent by people who buy AMD chips plus the money spent by people who use the services provided on AMD-powered computers.
 

rahvin

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Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: rjain
shadohawk: So would you care to stop hiding the details of your sexual life? It can't be legitimate if you're hiding it from us. :)

Anyway, the point is not that Germany's unemployment is high now, but that they're trying to inject some stimulus to fix it (even if they're not removing the policies that keep it down). If we had that plant, we'd have the jobs. But since the government is too interested in getting rid of secular governments, we don't have those jobs. Sure, defense contractors are doing well, but it's not like there's much of a multiplier on that. You get the money spent by the government minus the destruction caused by the use of the weapons. If they had the AMD plant, we'd have the money spent by people who buy AMD chips plus the money spent by people who use the services provided on AMD-powered computers.
The question you should be asking is, is the few thousand jobs that plant will generate worth the $3 billion in incentives the government gave them? I think once you answer that question you can decide who was foolish and who was smart.
 

chess9

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Apr 15, 2000
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CypherDude1:

Nice argument. And, we have many, many, many pressing intrastructure and social needs in this country. One-Thousand high tech jobs would have made a dent in those unemployment numbers as well.

By the way, and somewhat off topic, I was at the VA yesterday and walked into a crowded room of mostly Vietnam era vets discussing Iraq. I kept my mouth shut-hard to believe I know-but was truly amazed at the large number of guys who weren't on Bush's side. Only one guy (missing a leg, but still had a sharp tongue) was arguing for the Iraq War. Truly wierd....

-Robert
 

miguel

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Nov 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: chess9

By the way, and somewhat off topic, I was at the VA yesterday and walked into a crowded room of mostly Vietnam era vets discussing Iraq. I kept my mouth shut-hard to believe I know-but was truly amazed at the large number of guys who weren't on Bush's side. Only one guy (missing a leg, but still had a sharp tongue) was arguing for the Iraq War. Truly wierd....

-Robert
Oh man, I hate to hijack a thread, but one thing to consider is that most of vietnam war veterans were not professional soldiers (I could be wrong, but that's my impression, due to the large number of drafted soldiers). If I were drafted and fought and got wounded, then got shafted, I'd be bitter too.

 

gistech1978

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Aug 30, 2002
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Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: rjain
shadohawk: So would you care to stop hiding the details of your sexual life? It can't be legitimate if you're hiding it from us. :)

Anyway, the point is not that Germany's unemployment is high now, but that they're trying to inject some stimulus to fix it (even if they're not removing the policies that keep it down). If we had that plant, we'd have the jobs. But since the government is too interested in getting rid of secular governments, we don't have those jobs. Sure, defense contractors are doing well, but it's not like there's much of a multiplier on that. You get the money spent by the government minus the destruction caused by the use of the weapons. If they had the AMD plant, we'd have the money spent by people who buy AMD chips plus the money spent by people who use the services provided on AMD-powered computers.
The question you should be asking is, is the few thousand jobs that plant will generate worth the $3 billion in incentives the government gave them? I think once you answer that question you can decide who was foolish and who was smart.
exactly
OK is a prime example of this. but its happening in every state. these states give out hundreds of millions if not billions in tax breaks to large corporations. American Airlines has a huge maintenance base in Tulsa, they threatened to leave tulsa if they werent given even more tax breaks on top of what they already get. nevermind the fact that that maintenance base is one of the safest, most efficient and top performing of them all. there wasnt a chance in hell they would just up and leave. OK had(s) a massive shortfall in revenue, but corporations are getting over a billion in tax breaks and exemptions. the politicians wont do anything that creates real economic development and good jobs. that being an educated workforce. they would rather just keep handing out favors after these corporations essentially blackmail them by threatening to leave if they arent given sweetheart deals.

 

chess9

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gistech1978:

Something needs to be done to stop the bleeding of jobs offshore. This is a difficult problem and generalizations are not helpful. One-thousand high paying jobs for techs and engineers is a pretty big deal in my book. The State of Florida got endless grief for caving into the "whims" of old man Disney, but now the entirety of Central Florida is built around a theme park. You just never know. I don't recommend giving away millions for sports teams-even though I'm a hopeless jock-but I do think there are quite a few businesses worth keeping. This was definitely one of them, IMHO.

-Robert
 

amok

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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: rjain
shadohawk: So would you care to stop hiding the details of your sexual life? It can't be legitimate if you're hiding it from us. :)

Anyway, the point is not that Germany's unemployment is high now, but that they're trying to inject some stimulus to fix it (even if they're not removing the policies that keep it down). If we had that plant, we'd have the jobs. But since the government is too interested in getting rid of secular governments, we don't have those jobs. Sure, defense contractors are doing well, but it's not like there's much of a multiplier on that. You get the money spent by the government minus the destruction caused by the use of the weapons. If they had the AMD plant, we'd have the money spent by people who buy AMD chips plus the money spent by people who use the services provided on AMD-powered computers.
The question you should be asking is, is the few thousand jobs that plant will generate worth the $3 billion in incentives the government gave them? I think once you answer that question you can decide who was foolish and who was smart.
Where did you get the $3B number? I only see $1.5B total, with all but $500M in the form of loans.
 

gistech1978

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Aug 30, 2002
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Originally posted by: chess9
gistech1978:

Something needs to be done to stop the bleeding of jobs offshore. This is a difficult problem and generalizations are not helpful. One-thousand high paying jobs for techs and engineers is a pretty big deal in my book. The State of Florida got endless grief for caving into the "whims" of old man Disney, but now the entirety of Central Florida is built around a theme park. You just never know. I don't recommend giving away millions for sports teams-even though I'm a hopeless jock-but I do think there are quite a few businesses worth keeping. This was definitely one of them, IMHO.

-Robert
well im not saying the AA facility is hurting Tulsa's economy. Tulsa has lost 23,000 jobs in the past couple of years. they desperately need to keep AA there. im not arguing that fact.
i just dont understand why the government has to subsidize corporations. that is not a long term solution. that is thinking only of the short term when these deals are handed out. after that, you set a precedent. say for example since AA is getting this sweet deal in Tulsa...then all of sudden Southwest in OKC cries foul because they arent getting the same consideration. then even after that, the corporations will demand even more breaks or threaten to take their jobs to a state that is willing to bend over for them. its not right. as i said before, there is a very slim chance that AA would just up and leave a top performing plant. build another plant in another state, move, hire/train new workers etc. it wouldnt happen. the corporations just see a small poor state like OK (AL is another state in this same situation) that desperately needs to cling to every job we have and they just straight up extort them.

this is what happened to tulsa, ft worth and kansas city.
this is an excerpt from a newspaper i suscribe to
they dont have online, but its the Oklahoma Observer and the writer of the piece is Frosty Troy.
"most recently AA talked of closing one of three maintenance facilities, including Tulsa, and walked away with a pot of gold from Tulsa ($22 million) Ft Worth ($25 million) and Kansas City ($81.5 million). American didnt stop there, putting the heat on the OK Corporation Commission for a special electric rate. The Commission wisely turned thumbs down. The airline already gets a vastly reduced Tulsa water rate and other goodies. "

how can this be justified? it cant, AA cant turn a profit, so they are raking these 3 cities over the coals. period.
 

chess9

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Apr 15, 2000
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gistech1978:

I agree, generally, with your thinking. But these are tough times and something needs to be done. All those right wing chamber of commerce types are the ones who will do what it takes to get and keep the jobs. We need those S.O.B.s. :)

On the other hand, America may just have to swallow really hard and prepare for even more job losses.

-Robert
 

rahvin

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Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: chess9
gistech1978:

I agree, generally, with your thinking. But these are tough times and something needs to be done. All those right wing chamber of commerce types are the ones who will do what it takes to get and keep the jobs. We need those S.O.B.s. :)

On the other hand, America may just have to swallow really hard and prepare for even more job losses.

-Robert
We cannot protect our own market and proclaim free trade. For example, the textile limits bush imposed on China US cost us over a billion dollars in farm exports. The solution isn't to protect our own market, it's to create jobs locally without spending more money than the jobs will generate doing it. Personally I would rather see the goverment spend the 3billion they could spend getting AMD to come stateside to hire people directly because it would probably be cheaper for the tax payer and would generate the same amount of employement. I don't understand anyone that would support the loss of 3 billion in tax payer revenue to aquire a few thousand jobs that won't add that much money to our economy.
 

rjain

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May 1, 2003
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Originally posted by: rahvin

The question you should be asking is, is the few thousand jobs that plant will generate worth the $3 billion in incentives the government gave them? I think once you answer that question you can decide who was foolish and who was smart.
What about the jobs for the people who service and supply the factory? Obviously, shipping costs would give local suppliers an edge, so that plant is now more likely to buy wafers and chemicals from German plants if they can manufacture them at competitive costs. Also, we can make the same argument with AMD being the supplier and attracting people who buy large quantities of AMD chips. Dunno if that one's a big deal, tho, with assembly being so labor-intensive that it's probably much cheaper to send the parts to China. Still, Solectron has a facility in Cali, so it must have some merit.

Also, the fact that there's a fab there with people already relocated and working there will encourage others to build fabs there and steal away the AMD employees. The same kind of deal that is magnified many times in Wall Street and Silicon Valley.

Edit: Note that the question wasn't whether the idea was good in absolute, but relative to spending the same money on the Iraq War, so the whole discussion above is rather moot.
 

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