AMD A10-7850K preview at Asus A88X PRO

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FlanK3r

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Sep 15, 2009
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#1
We seen first APU Llano two and half years ago. This APU was AMD 12h family, very similar to 10h AMD family as all Phenoms II/Athlons II stars CPUs. Performance of Llano APUs was not bad, specially iGPU was great, but Phenoms II were better alternative. The FM1 socket had one year longevity.


After this AMD presents 15h family do desktop. New Bulldozer chips with good multithread performance, but not good single thread performance and high power comsumption. Zambezi BD was full of bugs, so AMD worked at new Piledriver cores and edhanced Zambezi in same time. At October 2012 coming new APU, to FM2 socket, AMD Trinity. This APU has similar performance as Llano, but with better iGPU part and with better power consumption with good overclocking ability. Next 10 months and to FM2 coming light refresh with better P-state and higher clocks - AMD Richland. I must to say, I liked A10 Richlands. Awesome OC, good scaling with voltage, still low power consumption after OC. These two 15h APUs are FM2 chips, but working also in FM2+.


Today is the D day from AMD, second generation of 15h APU is here, AMD Kaveri with Steamroller B. Chips are manufactured at 4Q 2013 and today are ready for sale and for reviews of

course :). Whats new here? Kaveri is AMD most advanced APU ever, with very good IPC (instruction per clock). We can talking about new GCN iGPU architecture inside, about new 28nm SHP process, HUMA controller, HSA support, AMD Trueadio, PCIe 3.0 and configurable TDP.


APU die size is 245mm, almost the same as in Richland/Trinity. But there is 2.41 bilion tranzisotrs! This is almost double more than before! This is because SHP process, higher

density at die size. SHP is "mixed" bulk and SOI. So good for iGPU, good for CPU tranzistors, but worse for the highest clock. Thats why Kaveri clocks are -400 MHz lower than with Richland.



Configurable TDP is one interesting part for notebooks segment. But working very well in desktop (we can know it from Haswell). There is slide from 65W and 45W part and performance in 3D Mark Firestrike with iGPU. Richland 65w is A8-6500, 45W is A8-6700T. The drop in score is around 250 points. But what Kaveri? Kaveri 65W is A8-7600. We can change TDP of CPU in BIOS for 45W at the same model. And performance? Wow, only few points lower than before!


Diagram of Steamroller B Kaveri. CPU cores with shared L2, IO part, iGPU part with up to 8 units and HUMA controller at left.


New chipset A88X is almost the same as A85X for FM2. One difference is PCIe 3.0, if we using Kaveri chip, and AHCI update. I have only A85x screenshot for representation...A78 and A55 are next chipsets of FM2+.



Kaveri including up to 12 compute cores. Why? There is (in 7850K) 4 CPU cores and 8 GPU compute cores of GCN. So programmable for parallel compute. Simply pure CPU performance clock to clock is up to 20% better than Piledriver core! Wow. How about improving seems AMD! But of course, the clocks of Kaveri are -400 MHz lower and after all is Kaveri slighty better than Richland A10-6800K (around 5% average at CPU part).
GPU part is very good. The gain is similar as from Llano to Trinity. But there is GCN, DX11.2+Mantle and new TrueAudio. The top R7 iGPU has 8 gpu units with 512 stream processors, 32 texture units and 16 ROPs.


The main stone of Kaveri is again one module. This module has two cores with shared L2 cache 2MB, few pipelines and some specialized units (128 FMAC and MMX). L1D cache is now higher - 96KB and 3-way. Dont forget about Kaveri isntruction set - FMA4/3, AVX, AES, XOP.
 

FlanK3r

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Sep 15, 2009
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#2

iGPU part is 47% of all die size. Again GCN concept as Hawai example working with DDR3 2133 MHz native (but it working with 2666 MHz OK at kaveri). iGPU part support Mantle, DX11.2, AMD Trueaudio, Eyfinity or acceleration UVD and working VCE. GPU part and CPU part can working together for compute - heterogeneous. So GPU and CPU have equal flexibility to create work. HSA compute are writing in opencl or C++ or few next language. This languages named as HSAL. HSAL is supporting now by few programs, example Photoshop, Libre
Office, Gimp etc. HSA are there great for saved time here. There is few examples of HSA.









Now we are back to pure iGPU performance in gaming. Finally some modern games at FullHD without lagging!



Or popular LOL game


Kaveri seems strong with dedicated card too, Im sure, better than Piledriver.


iGPU features as Mantle and TrueAudio are next benifits.
Whats Mantle exactly? Its new alternative to DX. But with benefits from GCN architecture for higher FPS (up to 40% boost!). Simply we can play games with worse cards than before. Next good idea is, you dont need Windows 8 for latest gaming effects! This will be working in theory with Windows XP too! At least with Windows 7 at 100%.AMD Trueaudio is less stress for CPU and better sound quality in games. Sound was limit of modern games. Now not must be. In iGPU parts are few audio coprocessors. And again programeable :).
 

FlanK3r

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Sep 15, 2009
305
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#3

Today AMD launched 3 models of Kaveri. The top model A10-7850K, the A10-7700K and great TDP model A8-7600. All specs are in tab. So :
*CPU contains a new core Steamroller B on 28nm SHP process with clocks to 3.7 / 4 GHz
*CPU cores are now more than 4, support the new ISA instructions, FMA4 / 3, AVX, AES, XOP
*shared L2 cache has a capacity of 2MB for one module (dual-core)
*the processor has a integrated PCIe 3.0 controller
*GPU part of the GCN architecture, core up to 720 MHz and up to 512 stream processors
*rendering effects up to 8x AF AA/16x
*Support Displayport 1.2, AMD Eyefinity, support for 4K video, support for UVD and VCE
*CPU and GPU together and communicate with each other, native support for DDR3 memory is 2400 MHz with AMP profile
*TDP APU is configurable in the range of 45, 65 and 95 W
*Support A88X chipset, A78 and A55, belonging socket FM2 +
*support the calculation of HSA, AMD TrueAudio a so-called API (DirectX 11.2/Mantle)
*support the involvement of dual graphics accelerators

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/ilustrace3/flanker/Kaveri/balen%C3%AD.jpg[img]

[img]http://pctuning.tyden.cz/ilustrace3/flanker/Kaveri/TDP_bios.png
TDP for change please?:)


Now going to test system :). I used AMD Gamer memory 2133 MHz, Asus A88X PRO with the last BIOS, big Corsair AX 1200 PSU, SSD Kingston HyperX 120GB and A10-7850K CPU. For comparison few others - A10-6800K, A8-3870K, FX-4300+FX-6300 and mostrum Haswell i7-4770K :) ( I have not core i3).




The gold, the new, the A88X PRO.


something is inside....:)
 

FlanK3r

Senior member
Sep 15, 2009
305
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#4
So, ready for preview tests? I am :)

Superpi is old benchamrk, this is pure x87 without help instruciton set. This programs are dead todays, but it is good for comparison simillar architecture.


*kaveri is impressive here. With the lower clocks beat all AMD CPUs.

AIDA memory tests




*In AIDA is little improvement with Kaveri, specially in read

Cinebench R11.5


*With -400 Mhz clocks slightly win for Kaveri, not bad again.

Fritzchess benchmark - multithread with hard load of chess simulation


*almost +400 points for Kaveri with lower frequency is very nice, specially here.

Wprime 1024M


*wow, simply wow....There is crazy performance gain, more than 100s quicker and this 2CU/4C APU won with FX-6300!

x264FHD benchmark, 1080P


* more than 0.5 FPS in 1080P is not nothing, this benchmark is very hard for every FPS up in CPU encoding

3D Mark vantage Performance test


* Kaveri can fly here. Huge improvement.
 

FlanK3r

Senior member
Sep 15, 2009
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#5
3D Mark 11 Performance


*After this score, I cant believe. Over 2400 points at stock. This score had my Richland after CPU/iGPU and memory OC (46xx Mhz CPU, 11xxMHz iGPU and over 2500 MHz memory!) !

3D Mark Fire Strike


*there is more than 100 points, not bad, but I think with new drivers could be better

Aliens vs Predator DX11 1920x1080, high details, 0x AA, 16x AF.


*its is hardly playable, but without comfort. For 30FPS I must set 0x AF and low/medium details without teselation ON.

Far Cry 2, DX10 1920x1080, very high details, high physic, 0x AA


* +4 FPS at FHD is not really bad. Believe, at 1280x1024 will be higher FPS gain!

For review I had not much time. So only this preview. I believe, you will like review and in future bring some more tests, OC and more photos of board for you. And you know what?

Do you heard about Asus 4-way optimization? If not, its simply way for auto OC with set of power state/idle mode, save some energy and VRM controll, intelligent regulation of fans without noise. Look at this nice auto overclocking!


Michal "FlanK3r"
 
Oct 26, 2013
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#6


That is pretty astonishing comparison and performance for the Kaveri with a popular business app.

Thanks for the great preview!
 

Homeles

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2011
2,585
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#7
That is pretty astonishing comparison and performance for the Kaveri with a popular business app.

Thanks for the great preview!
If it's not Microsoft Office, it's not popular. Still a huge speedup, just be aware that their market share is tiny.
 
Oct 26, 2013
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#8
If it's not Microsoft Office, it's not popular. Still a huge speedup, just be aware that their market share is tiny.


This graph showing adoption rate is before millions of Chromebooks have started to include the software (along with millions of students with either laptops or PCs or Ipads). Versions now run the software in a browser.

The most recent reviews from Sourceforge show good ratings from users so that will drive even higher adoption for the free software.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/libreoffice.mirror/
 

Homeles

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2011
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#9
Yikes, only 15 million cumulative? My point stands.
 

thilanliyan

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Jun 21, 2005
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#10
12 cores? I wonder if it will actually be advertised as such instead of a 4 core, which it really is.
 

Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
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#12
A10-7850K is unexciting, especially at launch price. It's competing with entry level Intel quad cores or i3+dGPU in that price segment. It will game better out of the box but that is easily remedied by a dedicated GPU.

Going by Anandtech's review the A8-7600 at 45W TDP is pretty competitive at its price point. Really can't see wanting a Kaveri for anything but an efficient basic desktop or htpc but it looks to be a nice bump from Richland within that segment.
 
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FlanK3r

Senior member
Sep 15, 2009
305
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#13
With respect, Anadntech CPU reviews, specially practice test are bad, I remember great Anandtech in 2008-2010 time, now is it worse...And others webs as Hardwarecanuks, Tomshardware or hardware.fr with Techreport are better and better in CPU reviews.
 

escrow4

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2013
3,321
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#14
** Looks at my 4770 [office allrounder] **

** Looks at Kaveri **

** Laughs maniacally **

APU's are stuck in that nowhere land, as Techreport succinctly puts it:

"Gamers who actually care about graphics performance are better off with discrete video cards that deliver better visuals and smoother frame delivery, while those who don't care about gaming are better served by Intel chips with higher per-thread performance and lower power consumption (which typically leads to lower noise levels.) APUs occupy this awkward middle ground for so-called casual gamers who want something better than an Intel IGP but not as good as a halfway-decent graphics card. As Jerry Seinfeld would say, "who are these people?" Seriously, I've never met one."

Source: http://techreport.com/review/25908/amd-a8-7600-kaveri-processor-reviewed/13
 

Slomo4shO

Senior member
Nov 17, 2008
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#15
The 7850K is an utter disappointment. $175? What was AMD thinking? Can pickup a 760K and a HD 7770K for the same price... There is not a single niche this chip can occupy at this price point...
 
Feb 2, 2009
12,875
166
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#16
The 7850K is an utter disappointment. $175? What was AMD thinking? Can pickup a 760K and a HD 7770K for the same price... There is not a single niche this chip can occupy at this price point...

That's true but,
760K = 100W TDP
HD7770K = 80W TDP

Total of 180W TDP vs 95W TDP for the Kaveri :whiste:

edit: not to mention that OEMs will prefer the Kaveri 99,99999 times for having lower TDP, less heat, smaller case, smaller PSU, less cost = higher margins etc etc.
 
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Slomo4shO

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Nov 17, 2008
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#17
not to mention that OEMs will prefer the Kaveri 99,99999 times for having lower TDP, less heat, smaller case, smaller PSU, less cost = higher margins etc etc.
It doesn't matter what the OEMs prefer, it always comes down to consumer demand...

Also, the 7850K is not an OEM only product. Lastly, either build will fit into an ITX case and even the CX430 can handle the 7770K paired with the 760K and its about the cheapest PSU available for custom builds.
 
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May 15, 2012
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#19
That's true but,
760K = 100W TDP
HD7770K = 80W TDP

Total of 180W TDP vs 95W TDP for the Kaveri
:whiste:

edit: not to mention that OEMs will prefer the Kaveri 99,99999 times for having lower TDP, less heat, smaller case, smaller PSU, less cost = higher margins etc etc.
The ordinary forums user/PC User usually do not understand anything, that is very important in the "big company OEM PC configuration business".:biggrin:
 
Last edited:
Mar 27, 2009
12,833
22
106
#21
That's true but,
760K = 100W TDP
HD7770K = 80W TDP

Total of 180W TDP vs 95W TDP for the Kaveri :whiste:

edit: not to mention that OEMs will prefer the Kaveri 99,99999 times for having lower TDP, less heat, smaller case, smaller PSU, less cost = higher margins etc etc.
I have to question if the Athlon x4 760K really draws the same power as the full APU version. (the iGPU counts for quite a bit of silicon area that no longer needs to be powered.)
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,909
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#22
I have to question if the Athlon x4 760K really draws the same power as the full APU version. (the iGPU counts for quite a bit of silicon area that no longer needs to be powered.)
It probably doesn't. Then again these are the reject chips. That said TDP is not power consumption and pretty much any PSU that powers the kaveri build is going to power the athlon + 7770 build. Plus the dgpu build can still be more efficient in terms of fps/watt.





Then again TDP is only a rough measure of power consumption.

A10-6800k using 92 Watts more than the i3? Seems legit. More than the a10-5800k (13 W more) at the same TDP. FX 4350 using 31 W less than the 8350 at the same 125W TDP?

As for power on an APU vs. cpu + dgpu build remember that the APU, with its CPU + igp is using a lot more of its TDP under gaming loads than the CPU or GPU are (generally under much higher loads). The athlon x4 under load may only draw 60W on its 100W tdp, which is around what you would expect vs. an APU which blows through more of its 100W TDP budget. Likewise for instance graphics cards are generally rated at more than they consume under gaming workloads.
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,220
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#23
That's an impressive GPU - more impressive than most Ananders speculated it would be! ;)

Equal to a 270X.... that's not bad at all!

An ITX box, all-in-one, or pre-built with one of these would really do quite well! (It's not necessarily the best value-per-dollar, but it's a decent performer.)
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,426
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#24
So now reviews are rejected and cherry picked samples from multiple reviews (spot the irony) are applied in force to save AMD's PR?

Who would have guessed? ^^
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
3,980
114
126
#25
APU's are stuck in that nowhere land, as Techreport succinctly puts it:

"Gamers who actually care about graphics performance are better off with discrete video cards that deliver better visuals and smoother frame delivery, while those who don't care about gaming are better served by Intel chips with higher per-thread performance and lower power consumption (which typically leads to lower noise levels.) APUs occupy this awkward middle ground for so-called casual gamers who want something better than an Intel IGP but not as good as a halfway-decent graphics card. As Jerry Seinfeld would say, "who are these people?" Seriously, I've never met one."

Source: http://techreport.com/review/25908/amd-a8-7600-kaveri-processor-reviewed/13
Yeah that sums it up pretty well.

The 7850K is an utter disappointment. $175? What was AMD thinking? Can pickup a 760K and a HD 7770K for the same price... There is not a single niche this chip can occupy at this price point...
exactly.

besides that one can clearly see it's limited by RAM bandwidth and the CPU. Just look at the low res figures were Iris Pro is mostly better. I bet this is a CPU bottleneck.
 
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