AMD A10-5800K preview - iGPU side only

[SPBHM]

this is funny, so someone runs some games on the limit of their GPU and now "i5 and A10" are equal for gaming... prepare for a "shock" when they are both tested in more CPU intensive games/settings/scenario.


also please stop comparing IGPs when IGPs are irrelevant (for anyone who wants higher performance than a 6570 DDR3)

 

[Hacp]

On hand hand the AMD fanboys claim it's easier to just have 1 chip and also that no one actually sells a pentium + HD7750 so the AMD setup is much easier and in the next paragraph the come with over clocking. Makes no sense. Anyone who overclocks will be able to build his pentium + discrete system.

1) Pentiums can not overclock(sb or ivy).
2) There is a market for chips like these. Not every gamer is a 8xAA max all settings type of gamer. Many people just want to play the game at a reasonable frame rate at 720p. The new chips will be able to do that.

Now, in 2-3 years, when the Igpu becomes outdated and can't play games at 720p with 40+ frames, they can disable to iGPU, increase the clocks, and buy last year's top GPU for around 90 dollars,all on the stock HSF. The chip starts at 4ghz so overclocking .4 ghz on the stock fan within the range of reason.

This is not a niche market. I'd say person who buys an i5K cpu with the latest GPU is in a niche market.Someone who spends on a midrange CPU and GPU is mainstream. Think Athlon 939 with 6600gt. Was ~100 for the CPU and 150 for the GPU back when it was popular.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

1) Pentiums can not overclock(sb or ivy).
2) There is a market for chips like these. Not every gamer is a 8xAA max all settings type of gamer. Many people just want to play the game at a reasonable frame rate at 720p. The new chips will be able to do that.

Now, in 2-3 years, when the Igpu becomes outdated and can't play games at 720p with 40+ frames, they can disable to iGPU, increase the clocks, and buy last year's top GPU for around 90 dollars,all on the stock HSF. The chip starts at 4ghz so overclocking .4 ghz on the stock fan within the range of reason.

This is not a niche market. I'd say person who buys an i5K cpu with the latest GPU is in a niche market.Someone who spends on a midrange CPU and GPU is mainstream. Think Athlon 939 with 6600gt. Was ~100 for the CPU and 150 for the GPU back when it was popular.

Yes, yes it is. If it wasn't Intel wouldn't be outselling AMD by such a huge margin.

If you were to follow what a lot of gamers here say, 90% of people want to game on their computers which is just LOL. Maybe 10% do, if that. Most people game on consoles.

And the IGP is already outdated. For the same price you can get a Pentium and an HD 6670 DDR5 and enjoy higher gaming performance from the get-go.

 

[Hacp]

Yes, yes it is. If it wasn't Intel wouldn't be outselling AMD by such a huge margin.


And the IGP is already outdated. For the same price you can get a Pentium and an HD 6670 DDR5 and enjoy higher gaming performance from the get-go.

Yes, you'll get a pentium that can't overclock and doesn't have HTT and will do worse than the new chips in single and multithreaded aps.

If you were to follow what a lot of gamers here say, 90% of people want to game on their computers which is just LOL. Maybe 10% do, if that. Most people game on consoles.

Yet the most successful video game ever in terms of revenue and profit just happens to be a computer game

 

[inf64]

I guess they forget that Pentium Gs have none of the following: no Turbo,no unlocked multiplier(stuck at stock forever ,poor owners) , no AVX support,no AES support, no SMT (so you are owned badly in MT scenarios vs even 2M "faildozers",badly). Basically Pentium is a POS SB leftover that intel sells to those who don't know better. Those who know and want to buy intel will give more money but get an actually good CPU such as i3 (even though these are also limited by locked multiplier and even lack of AVX support in some cases).

 

[AtenRa]

Core i3 has AVX but no AES.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Yes, you'll get a pentium that can't overclock and doesn't have HTT and will do worse than the new chips in single and multithreaded aps.

This is incorrect. Refer back to this:

All incorrect, of course. The Pentium DOES have higher single-threaded performance and will give you comparable to higher gaming framerates. As a point of comparison:

The Pentium G850 is 5% slower in gaming than the Phenom II X4 980, which is clocked stock at a whopping 3.7GHz and is based on the superior (in comparison to Bulldozer/Piledriver) K10.5/Stars architecture. Unless AMD managed to make up for the ~20-30% IPC+module design deficit with Piledriver, there's zero way an A10 will be faster than a Pentium in gaming. And since Piledriver is but a mere architectural refresh of Bulldozer, it's safe to assume that clock-for-clock, core-for-core Stars will still be 10%+ faster.

If you want Bulldozer/Piledriver to merely match the Pentium in gaming, you need to overclock it. A Pentium G850 is a mere $69 on Amazon.

And it's funny that AMD fans, of all people, are the first ones to mention overclocking and then have the nerve to say that this isn't for a niche market. That's pure BS because almost no one overclocks, and if you have an ounce of common sense you'd also know overclocking raises power consumption and therefore you need a third-party HSF. If we're talking OEM systems they can't be overclocked, and the chances of someone wanting to game on an OEM system are slim, not to mention if you get a system with an Intel CPU you can just pop in a graphics card and enjoy higher CPU and GPU performance.

If you buy an AMD APU, you're buying two mediocre components on a single die. That's why they're selling them for so low.

 

[Edgemeal]

Yes, yes it is. If it wasn't Intel wouldn't be outselling AMD by such a huge margin.

Only in notes and servers, Intels desktop market isn't that big of a margin, last I read (Q2 reports) AMD had 43% of the x86 desktop market, I would have guessed much less.

 

[Phynaz]

It is pretty clever of AMD to do this. Now the web will be seeded with reviews that can only highlight and showcase the positive features of the CPU while being intentionally devoid of the negative comparisons that would have been carried out in a regular review.

I agree, this is really good marketing.

Also, as the doc from AMD says, this gets web sites twice the hits, as there are two reviews for the same product.

 

[Phynaz]

Another bad thing about this approach is that if you highlight all the good stuff now, then you have nothing but the bad stuff to show next week when the APU is actually launched.

Good point, I hadn't thought of this.

 

[AtenRa]

Fastest iGPU in the market : Check
Fastest OpenCL in its price segment : Check
Lowest idle power : Check
Unlocked Multiplier : Check
Future Proof socket : Check
Hybrid CrossFire : Check
AVX, AES, XOP : Check
$130.00 price point : Check

Sorry folks, its not an Intel CPU :biggrin:

 

[Hacp]

This is incorrect. Refer back to this:



If you want Bulldozer/Piledriver to merely match the Pentium in gaming, you need to overclock it. A Pentium G850 is a mere $69 on Amazon.

You forget that the piledriver cores will have 12-15% higher performance at the same clocks, and are clocked at .2 higher base and .4 higher turbo. The AMD cpu will still match the Pentium in single threaded aps, and beat the pentium in multithreaded aps hands down.

And it's funny that AMD fans, of all people, are the first ones to mention overclocking and then have the nerve to say that this isn't for a niche market. That's pure BS because almost no one overclocks, and if you have an ounce of common sense you'd also know overclocking raises power consumption and therefore you need a third-party HSF. If

Again, you don't need a third party heatsink/fan to overclock, especially when you're talking about a realistic 15% overclock with these chips.

we're talking OEM systems they can't be overclocked, and the chances of someone wanting to game on an OEM system are slim, not to mention if you get a system with an Intel CPU you can just pop in a graphics card and enjoy higher CPU and GPU performance.

No, we're not talking OEMS. We're talking about people who play games for the gameplay, not for graphics. People overclock to get the most out of their money. They can say they got a better value by spending less on a low end chip and getting near the same performance as a higher end chip.

 

[Stoneburner]

HTPC tests please.

 

[Phynaz]

Only in notes and servers, Intels desktop market isn't that big of a margin, last I read (Q2 reports) AMD had 43% of the x86 desktop market, I would have guessed much less.

I'll take your number as true, I haven't looked it up. But one thing to keep in mind is that is unit share, and not the all important revenue share.

 

[Olikan]

If you buy an AMD APU, you're buying two mediocre components on a single die. That's why they're selling them for so low.

yes, they are very bad compared to intel + discret...(LOL, even AMD+discret)

but they are at the same time, dirt chip...
making it actually a good product, for every one that don't want to spend more than 150 bucks...

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

You forget that the piledriver cores will have 12-15% higher performance at the same clocks, and are clocked at .2 higher base and .4 higher turbo. The AMD cpu will still match the Pentium in single threaded aps, and beat the pentium in multithreaded aps hands down.



Again, you don't need a third party heatsink/fan to overclock, especially when you're talking about a realistic 15% overclock with these chips.

No, we're not talking OEMS. We're talking about people who play games for the gameplay, not for graphics. People overclock to get the most out of their money. They can say they got a better value by spending less on a low end chip and getting near the same performance as a higher end chip.

Compared to Bulldozer? No, they will not. Piledriver is only an architectural update for Bulldozer. IPC increases will be in the lower-than-10% region.

And it won't match it in single-threaded because Intel has a 50-60% lead in IPC. A Pentium G850 is clocked at 2.9GHz and an A10-5800K at 3.8-4.2GHz. That's 31-42% higher, and since obviously frequency scaling is not 100%, Intel will keep a healthy lead in single-threaded performance.

And the persons you're speaking of make up a completely insignificant part of the market. Again, they can just buy a Pentium and HD 6670 DDR5. If you want to overclock you'll need a better motherboard (more power phases), better power supply and a better heatsink and fan than if you were not to. That raises the price by around $50 at least, at which point you can just get an i5 or an i3 plus the same HD 6670 DDR5 and enjoy better performance in all fronts.

 

[Olikan]

Only in notes and servers, Intels desktop market isn't that big of a margin, last I read (Q2 reports) AMD had 43% of the x86 desktop market, I would have guessed much less.

double post...but

amd have 43% marketshare for....bobcat against atom

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Again, you don't need a third party heatsink/fan to overclock, especially when you're talking about a realistic 15% overclock with these chips.

Yes, yes you do. The included heatsink is crap. I don't want a fan whirring at 3000RPM screaming anywhere near me.

A 15% overclock will increase power consumption by at least 10% if on stock voltage.

 

[Mallibu]

Can you read or not? First of all I said 4.5Ghz 5800K would be equal (roughly) to 4.7Ghz Fx4100. Then I calculated how much faster is Fx4100 @ 4.7Ghz Vs Fx4100 @ stock the results of which we have in that chart. The difference is exactly 27%. Then I multiplied both numbers that FX4100 produced (in the chart) by 1.27 and got the estimated perf. of 4.5Ghz 5800K (which is equal to 4.7Ghz FX4100). It is all very simple and based on what THG already benchmarked. I have no idea how you cannot understand this simple concept.

And yes , 4.5ghz on stock cooler is not at all unreasonable,especially when you disable the ondie GPU and OC only the CPU cores. After all, 4.5Ghz is just 7% over the stock Turbo 5800K offers. SO yes ,the cores can do this very easily. Heck even old FX4100 can OC on stock cooler with stock Vcore to ~4.3-4.4Ghz. With PD it will be even easier task to achieve.

Your method is wrong and leads to incorrect results. Instead of multiplying on a graph about relative performance, hold onto normal comparisons. CPU performance of 5800k @ 4.5ghz is ~ FX 4100 @ 4.7 Ghz which gets stomped by an IB i5@4 ghz. Don't know what is so hard for you to get.:awe: Oh, also have fun at 4.7 ghz @ stock cooler temp-wise and noise-wise. My phenom 965 @ stock speed cooler sounded like an airplane.

 

[Soulkeeper]

The L2 in the Bulldozer architecture acts like the L3. The L3 in Zambezi or Vishera acts like a glue for the the L2. This problem is fixed in Steamroller where there is no L3 on any version. Also, you won't see the Fusion platform and Server platform use the same socket till 2015.

Do you have a source for this info ?

 

[SPBHM]

Fastest iGPU in the market : Check
Fastest OpenCL in its price segment : Check
Lowest idle power : Check
Unlocked Multiplier : Check
Future Proof socket : Check
Hybrid CrossFire : Check
AVX, AES, XOP : Check
$130.00 price point : Check

Sorry folks, its not an Intel CPU :biggrin:

fastest iGPU, true, still, at best as good as a 6570 DDR3 ($50) card, which might be enough for some, OK.
OpenCL? really? it needs to gain relevance first,
idle power looks good, but it would be nice to see some more testing (against the i3 3220)
unlocked multi is great, but there is the possible added cost for overclocking (coming with the added power usage, like cooling)
Future Proof, it's hard to judge without knowing how good the next FM2 CPU is going to be, and how compatible the current MBs are, but it's certainly something positive,
Hybrid CF? do I need to post the TPU review again? currently it's not working decently, and it's probably always going to be facing driver issues from the crossfire with 2 very different GPUs, and the overall performance is far from amazing,
AVX, AES, XOP; cool, how useful are these right now for most users?
$130 is OK, but there are other options at the same price,


I will agree that now that I have some power usage numbers, trinity is looking like a good option, so I'm waiting for more reviews (of CPU performance) and overclocking (and MB prices) to better understand how good it is

 

[Hacp]

Compared to Bulldozer? No, they will not. Piledriver is only an architectural update for Bulldozer. IPC increases will be in the lower-than-10% region.

Look at Toms Hardware Benchmarks from July 14th on piledriver. It shows 12-15% improvements. I'm basing my numbers on a verified source who actually tested the hardware. You're basing your number on speculation.

I'm using numbers for the benchmark that you posted. In it, the Intel G860 Pentium had an average fps of 162.2% better than an A4 CPU. The Fx4100(3.6ghz, 3.8 turbo, 4 cores) was 149.0% better than a A4 CPU. Now, the top end A10 has a frequency of 3.8, 4.2 turbo, 4 cores. We'll just say that frequency increases the performance by 5%. It should be more, but we'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

Now multiply in a 12% overall performance increase and you get 149.0*1.05*1.12= 175.224% for the A10, which is higher than the Pentium G860. Again, I'm using numbers you posted and educated guesses based on tests done on the actual product.

And the persons you're speaking of make up a completely insignificant part of the market. Again, they can just buy a Pentium and HD 6670 DDR5. If you want to overclock you'll need a better motherboard (more power phases), better power supply and a better heatsink and fan than if you were not to. That raises the price by around $50 at least, at which point you can just get an i5 or an i3 plus the same HD 6670 DDR5 and enjoy better performance in all fronts.

I've overclocked low end chips with Matx mobos that cost me 50 bucks before. It works, I just took the computer out of commission after 6 years of service. On the stock Heatsink fan as well. You are grossly exaggerating.

 

[Hacp]

Yes, yes you do. The included heatsink is crap. I don't want a fan whirring at 3000RPM screaming anywhere near me.

A 15% overclock will increase power consumption by at least 10% if on stock voltage.

Ok, so the chip isn't for you. It is probably good for many others who would gladly trade some noise to play their game. They're probably wearing headsets and can't hear any noise when they're playing either.

 

[beginner99]

And it's funny that AMD fans, of all people, are the first ones to mention overclocking and then have the nerve to say that this isn't for a niche market.

The will always come up with a new excuse. Like now they say it does not have AVX and in the AVX2 threads they say it takes years for an new ISA to be relevant and hence AVX2 will not matter at all when in fact it will be the end of AMDs APU/ HSA dream.

And like gaming requires AES extensions. It's irrelevant for that.

That's pure BS because almost no one overclocks, and if you have an ounce of common sense you'd also know overclocking raises power consumption and therefore you need a third-party HSF. If we're talking OEM systems they can't be overclocked, and the chances of someone wanting to game on an OEM system are slim, not to mention if you get a system with an Intel CPU you can just pop in a graphics card and enjoy higher CPU and GPU performance.

If you buy an AMD APU, you're buying two mediocre components on a single die. That's why they're selling them for so low.

Final nail in the coffin of AMD fanboys.

 

[alexruiz]

For the same price you can get a Pentium and an HD 6670 DDR5 and enjoy higher gaming performance from the get-go.

How about you give us a link showing a pentium and HD6670 DDR5 costing the same as the A10-5800K? Another one of your exaggerations, same as the "average IB OC is 4.6 GHz"?

The HD6670 has gone as low as $45 AR, but those have always been DDR3 versions. The DDR5 versions are barely cheaper than the HD6770.