AMD A10-5800K preview - iGPU side only

[Mallibu]

Im not the one to promote Celerons for Gaming

Yeah it's worst. You were promoting FX for gaming when even a Pentium G620 is better in games. So please stop accusing others of fanboism, you're making people burst in laughter.
Your main argument to buy FX was "Let's buy worst CPU's and invest that money to better GPUs". So what is wrong with the guy's suggestion? Isn't a 77750 better GPU?

 

[Abwx]

Yeah it's worst. You were promoting FX for gaming when even a Pentium G620 is better in games.

That s not true at all , unless the G620 perform on par with a i3 ,
or better if it it must be really faster.

http://www.hardware.fr/focus/57/amd-fx-8150-patch-quelles-performances.html

 

[alexruiz]

Yeah it's worst. You were promoting FX for gaming when even a Pentium G620 is better in games. So please stop accusing others of fanboism, you're making people burst in laughter.
Your main argument to buy FX was "Let's buy worst CPU's and invest that money to better GPUs". So what is wrong with the guy's suggestion? Isn't a 77750 better GPU?

In the games where the FX was slower, it was playable.
The pentium is not even playable in these ones.

Because you also don't know how to read either, here are again:
How is that pentium doing?

"Monster" pentium on BF3

"Monster" pentium on BF3 again

 

[LogOver]

In the games where the FX was slower, it was playable.
The pentium is not even playable in these ones.

Because you also don't know how to read either, here are again:
How is that pentium doing?

BF3 - GTX 550 + Celeron G530, Low 1920x1200
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-K9fnDmvhw&feature=related

BF3 Celeron G530 + GTX 460, High 1920 x 1080
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IciX5XaaBUc

Skyrim - HD 6770 + Celeron G530, Medium/High 1920x1080
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGqCbm5NhXU&feature=related

 

[Mallibu]

In the games where the FX was slower, it was playable.
The pentium is not even playable in these ones.

Because you also don't know how to read either, here are again:
How is that pentium doing?

Please stop posting random support threads. I can find you literaly thousands of posts with people owning the x,y,z cpu having problems in x,y,z games. They arent helping your credibility and they mean absolutely nothing.

 

[alexruiz]

BF3 - GTX 550 + Celeron G530, Low 1920x1200
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-K9fnDmvhw&feature=related

BF3 Celeron G530 + GTX 460, High 1920 x 1080
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IciX5XaaBUc

Skyrim - HD 6770 + Celeron G530, Medium/High 1920x1080
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGqCbm5NhXU&feature=related

Did you watch the videos yourself, or just linked the first ones you found?

Just watching the first 40 seconds on video 2, big stutter at ~22 seconds and at ~34 seconds. And those are non combat scenes. I'll take the time to watch it complete later and compile all the stutter points.

Video one, despite what he claims that "it is the camera" has also several interruptions in the gameplay in the first minute. If it was the camera, it would blur, not freeze the image. Will watch complete and compile stutter points.

If you think that is playable, I'll accept it, but then, that means ANYTHING can be considered playable

 

[AtenRa]

This is a Trinity(APU) thread, can you Intel fanboys talk about your crappy Celerons in another thread ???

 

[alexruiz]

Please stop posting random support threads. I can find you literaly thousands of posts with people owning the x,y,z cpu having problems in x,y,z games. They arent helping your credibility and they mean absolutely nothing.

I'll ask you this also. Do you know how to read? Did you even read those threads?
I know it is beyond your capability, but I'll also repeat it: they are meaningful because of methodology to trace the issue, and discover what was causing it.

Quote again for you.

Let me ask you again: Do you know how to read?
For what you wrote, it is obvious you didn't read those posts. Yes, it is 2 forums posts, but a google search reveals a ton of them. I know this is beyond your comprehension, but those forums posts used good methodology to troubleshoot. Use a dictionary to find what methodology is.

''In my tests when I disabled 2 cores on my i5-2500k (making bf3 2 threads) I also got the stutter. So it seems BF3 requires more than 2 threads / cores to run effectively."


What do you find as wrong with that root cause tracing? Nothing. He pinpointed the cause of the stutter.

About every other game is the world will BE playable in an AMD CPU, specially with a discrete video card. Or want to distort the perception and argue that 43fps in an RTS is "crap", but "heavy stutter" is "not unplayable"? Another one of your exaggerations as the "99.99%"?
The "60fps or bust" crowd will hang you alive for the "heavy stutter is not unplayable"

ps. Yes, 2 forums posts to prove my point, amazing. How many could you gather to prove that a celeron can play BF3 MP? Same situation as your 50000 games list? Is zero more amazing than 2?

Credibilty? well, you are beyond the point of no return, so nothing will convince you. But honest users looking for a good realistic answer should not end like the OP of that post, who had to waste $55 on a CPU that won't cut it.

"Upon further testing of my g630 I can fully concur. I built this system entirely because review sites and reviewers (like linus) espouse the unnecessary need for quad core for gaming. Well, seeing as I planned to only game at 1680x1050 on this machine (something a 7770 can handle nicely) I set out to build it with just a g630. Lo and behold I am choked.

Even SP chokes so I really do not know where everyone is getting this stuff from. I CAN run around on an empty kharg island and not get sick due to the low frames but thats about the limit. I always assumed that running the higher resolutions makes a difference on the cpu but in BF3 it really doesn't. Turning the bastard down to 1280x800 on my 24" dell made no difference at all. Same CPU load, though obviously much lower gpu.

Sigh. It looks like if I want to play BF3 even at 1680x1050 on 64 man maps, quad core it shall be. I was hoping I could get away with a $55 cpu but no such luck!"

 

[inf64]

"Powerful" Celerons vs QC A10s in modern games.. My God. We have touched the bottom now .

 

[LogOver]

Just watching the first 40 seconds on video 2, big stutter at ~22 seconds and at ~34 seconds.

No stutter there. I guess your cpu is not able to play the video properly.

 

[LogOver]

"Powerful" Celerons vs QC A10s in modern games.. My God. We have touched the bottom now

Of cause, it`s better to play modern games on crappy IGP, than on Celeron + proper GPU.

 

[alexruiz]

No stutter there. I guess your cpu is not able to play the video properly.

LOL. It can decode mkv 1080p videos juts fine, so my hardware is capable.
Could be my network
I'll watch later and provide feedback.

 

[Mallibu]

I'll ask you this also. Do you know how to read? Did you even read those threads?
I know it is beyond your capability, but I'll also repeat it: they are meaningful because of methodology to trace the issue, and discover what was causing it.

Quote again for you.



Credibilty? well, you are beyond the point of no return, so nothing will convince you. But honest users looking for a good realistic answer should not end like the OP of that post, who had to waste $55 on a CPU that won't cut it.

"Upon further testing of my g630 I can fully concur. I built this system entirely because review sites and reviewers (like linus) espouse the unnecessary need for quad core for gaming. Well, seeing as I planned to only game at 1680x1050 on this machine (something a 7770 can handle nicely) I set out to build it with just a g630. Lo and behold I am choked.

Even SP chokes so I really do not know where everyone is getting this stuff from. I CAN run around on an empty kharg island and not get sick due to the low frames but thats about the limit. I always assumed that running the higher resolutions makes a difference on the cpu but in BF3 it really doesn't. Turning the bastard down to 1280x800 on my 24" dell made no difference at all. Same CPU load, though obviously much lower gpu.

Sigh. It looks like if I want to play BF3 even at 1680x1050 on 64 man maps, quad core it shall be. I was hoping I could get away with a $55 cpu but no such luck!"

If we judge CPUs by one game (BF3 mp) we can also judge all AMD cpu's by Starcraft 2 and extract that "AMD cpus are making games unplayable".
So outside your little BF3 MP (must be the most referenced game from AMD fans ) a Pentium G620 will be absolutely fine, and even faster than an FX8150 in games (not all times, but most times).
So, since the main argument by Aten-Ra and the whole company of AMD supporters was "Buy worst CPU and get a better GPU", doesn't it apply to this case? Instead of buying the A5800 ain't it better to get a good enough CPU (g620 and get 7750 as your GPU? Isn't that going to get you overall better performance in games?

 

[Abwx]

So outside your little BF3 MP (must be the most referenced game from AMD fans ) a Pentium G620 will be absolutely fine, and even faster than an FX8150 in games (not all times, but most times).

According to Hardware.fr tester the pentium have stutters in games
that are not GPU limited once the game use more than two threads,
the problem being obvious when 4 threads are used.

He conclude that for games dual cores without HT are to be discarded.

 

[alexruiz]

If we judge CPUs by one game (BF3 mp) we can also judge all AMD cpu's by Starcraft 2 and extract that "AMD cpus are making games unplayable".
So outside your little BF3 MP (must be the most referenced game from AMD fans ) a Pentium G620 will be absolutely fine, and even faster than an FX8150 in games (not all times, but most times).
So, since the main argument by Aten-Ra and the whole company of AMD supporters was "Buy worst CPU and get a better GPU", doesn't it apply to this case? Instead of buying the A5800 ain't it better to get a good enough CPU (g620 and get 7750 as your GPU? Isn't that going to get you overall better performance in games?

You have a good point. The argument is valid, buy cheaper CPU and get get better GPU, that is how we have done it. But let's go through the details. A review linked here:
xbits labs take on the A10-5800k shows the starcraft score for the A10-5800k at 43 fps. The "60 fps or bust" crowd might not like it, but starcraft is an RTS, not a shooter. 43fps falls within the perfectly playable.

On the other hand, "Heavy stutter" does not sound as playable. Yes, subjective, and until someone with a celeron / pentium provides hard numbers, we won't know for sure exactly how unplayable it is.

 

[AtenRa]

So, since the main argument by Aten-Ra and the whole company of AMD supporters was "Buy worst CPU and get a better GPU", doesn't it apply to this case?

No because you are always CPU limited with the Celeron, that was not the case with the FX CPUs, not to mention they can OC.

Instead of buying the A5800 ain't it better to get a good enough CPU (g620 and get 7750 as your GPU? Isn't that going to get you overall better performance in games?

First of all A10-5800K is an APU, you have to compare it against an Intel APU at the same price, that Intel APU is the Core i3 3225.

Secondly, if you compare an Intel CPU + Discrete GPU you have to do the same for the AMD system. For a few bucks more than the Celeron you can have the A6-3670K + a Discrete GPU and you will be able to play even BF3 in MT, why buy the Celeron ??

 

[LogOver]

Yes, subjective, and until someone with a celeron / pentium provides hard numbers, we won't know for sure exactly how unplayable it is.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-a8-3870k_7.html#sect0

 

[SPBHM]

I think there is truth on the reports of the Pentiums having troubles with stuttering,
this makes pretty clear:

the Pentium is slow to render some frames multiple times,

g2120 = dual core ivy bridge at 3.1GHz without HT
3225 = dual core ivy bridge at 3.3GHz with HT


Intel should enable HT on their low end dual cores (and maybe compensate with lower clock, less cache l3 to justify the lower price)

 

[frozentundra123456]

No because you are always CPU limited with the Celeron, that was not the case with the FX CPUs, not to mention they can OC.



First of all A10-5800K is an APU, you have to compare it against an Intel APU at the same price, that Intel APU is the Core i3 3225.

Secondly, if you compare an Intel CPU + Discrete GPU you have to do the same for the AMD system. For a few bucks more than the Celeron you can have the A6-3670K + a Discrete GPU and you will be able to play even BF3 in MT, why buy the Celeron ??

The whole direction of this thread was started because the AMD contingent claimed that the A10 apu alone was sufficient for gaming while others proposed that a discrete card is needed for a satisfactory experience. So now you want to add a discrete card to the A10. Can you make up your mind?

 

[TerryMathews]

The whole direction of this thread was started because the AMD contingent claimed that the A10 apu alone was sufficient for gaming while others proposed that a discrete card is needed for a satisfactory experience. So now you want to add a discrete card to the A10. Can you make up your mind?

And I still say that the iGPU is sufficient for non hardcore gamers.

 

[LogOver]

Intel should enable HT on their low end dual cores (and maybe compensate with lower clock, less cache l3 to justify the lower price)

This pentium is better then A10 APU in some other games. Just to complete the picture:

 

[Idontcare]

This pentium is better then A10 APU in some other games. Just to complete the picture:

Why/How on earth do things get so bad for some of those systems? What is causing such huge delays in the frame? Is it really processing time or is there something else about the system in general that is causing it to lag so much?

 

[Abwx]

Why/How on earth do things get so bad for some of those systems? What is causing such huge delays in the frame? Is it really processing time or is there something else about the system in general that is causing it to lag so much?

Looking at the framerates/CPU it looks like both games are
more or less single threaded , for some reason..

http://techreport.com/review/23662/amd-a10-5800k-and-a8-5600k-trinity-apus-reviewed/9


http://techreport.com/review/23662/amd-a10-5800k-and-a8-5600k-trinity-apus-reviewed/8

Edit : thoses game were "optimized".....

Driven by 3rd generation Intel® Core™ processors, you can enjoy immersive22 gaming on titles that are optimized for Intel HD Graphics21, including: Star Wars: The Old Republic, Call of Duty*: Modern Warfare* 3, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, and Batman: Arkham City.

http://m.intel.com.au/content/intel-au/en_au/technology/hd-graphics.touch.html

 

[Idontcare]

Edit : thoses game were "optimized".....

Ah, therein lies the answer. So there were some specific optimizations to be made to make those spurious low frame rendering events not occur.

Still though, I am curious as to what exactly causes such a delay. Is it truly on-processor as in a cache bottleneck or the pipeline stalling out with branch mispredicts? Or is it something even more silly like bus contention causing a delay in getting data from the CPU to the GPU?

It is just such a binary situation when looking at those two graphs. Truly the have's versus the have not's. I can't help but wondering what special pixie dust the Intel chips have that the AMD chips are lacking for that to be the case.

It can't simply be a case of "IPC is too low" otherwise it would simply increase the minimum FPS linearly across the board, but it doesn't. The AMD systems truly get markedly lower lows in those games versus the Intel rigs. Like they have a poorly written driver that is causing DPC's or something silly like that.

 

[bononos]

Looking at the framerates/CPU it looks like both games are
more or less single threaded , for some reason..
.............

Edit : thoses game were "optimized".....

http://m.intel.com.au/content/intel-au/en_au/technology/hd-graphics.touch.html

Even if the games were single threaded, the performance gap seems to be way out of proportion. Very odd.

Are the optimizations referring to the igp only? Why not enabled on all pc's and require 'optimized' s/w (igp driver?)

Driven by 3rd generation Intel® Core™ processors, you can enjoy immersive22 gaming on titles that are optimized for Intel HD Graphics21, ........
21 Built-in visual features are not enabled on all PCs and optimized software may be required. Check with your system manufacturer. Learn more at www.intel.com/go/biv.
22 With Intel® HD Graphics 4000 Only.