AMD 7970 v Nvidia GTX 770

[SirPauly]

Anyone dumb enough to enable PhysX when running an AMD card deserves what they get.

Your post is about as useful as saying that knives should be banned because in certain situations you can end up cutting yourself.

I loathe to be a nitpicker but in Hawken, discovered with PhysX enabled, one may enjoy the particles debris with the CPU and was very welcomed.

Zogrim noticed as well:

As for CPU execution of PhysX effects, CPU can operate particle debris with surprisingly decent performance (40-50 fps),

http://physxinfo.com/news/10642/gpu-physx-in-hawken/

On high was a different story with turbulence effects but the particle debris added a lot of fun and AMD owners could enjoy this.

 

[Black Octagon]

I loathe to be a nitpicker but in Hawken, discovered with PhysX enabled, one may enjoy the particles debris with the CPU and was very welcomed.

Zogrim noticed as well:

http://physxinfo.com/news/10642/gpu-physx-in-hawken/

On high was a different story with turbulence effects but the particle debris added a lot of fun and AMD owners could enjoy this.

Fair enough, I wasn't aware of that case, nor that PhysX was possible via CPU.

But my point remains. Silverforce was critiquing AMD cards for their unsuitability at running an NVIDIA feature. That is just a poor argument, plain and simple

 

[Silverforce11]

Anyone dumb enough to enable PhysX when running an AMD card deserves what they get.

Your post is about as useful as saying that knives should be banned because in certain situations you can end up cutting yourself.

Yeah but if they don't enable PhysX, are they really playing the game MAXED? Obviously they are not, and losing in graphics quality!! So why have an expensive GPU when you cant run games maxed out?

It's more akin to saying guns should be banned, because apparently they kill people, and its actually NOT people killing people..

@ Toyota, no seriously man, in all my years in PC gaming I have never had a driver issue with 3d accelerators. Prior to it, heaps of problems with MS DOS and shoddy VGA drivers, I had a hell of a time to get the first Soundblaster to work with Wing Commander.. but modern 3d drivers causing games to crash (which is not a problem with the game itself requiring patches)? Never, and I've used NV as long as I have ATI/AMD. Currently I am playing World of Tanks a lot, and the forum is filled with complaints about NV drivers randomly crashing in that game.. running fine on my 670.

 

[Elfear]

one of the many reason I personally will not go AMD is that they seem to have issues with older games. I dont think Far Cry will even play properly last time I checked. the times I have used AMD gpus and apus I have had way too many issues.

I don't play many older games but since we just played Far Cry for a LAN I'll say that it plays great on my 7970. UT2004, HL2, COD4, Diablo II, and Starcraft I've also confirmed to work. Of course there are hundreds of older games so your mileage may vary.

I don't agree with you! The GTX 770 introduction MSRP of 399 was very welcomed and will see if the market can sustain it! The GTX 760 introduction MSRP of 249 was very welcomed and will see if the market can sustain it.

The launch prices were good because it put pressure on AMD to lower prices but now that you can pick up 7970s for such a good deal Nvidia needs to follow suit.

Absolutely, the GTX 770 with x8 AA, over-all, offers 20 percent more performance at 1080p and 14 percent more performance at 1600p than a HD 7970, based on Computerbase' findings!

Wait, why are you comparing the 770 to the 7970 rather then the 7970GE?

 

[powruser]

The Sapphire 7970 GHz edition deal is over at newegg, is back up to $459.99 ($439.99 after $20 rebate). That kinda sucks because that was a really good deal for those looking for a 7970 GHz edition.

 

[SirPauly]

Wait, why are you comparing the 770 to the 7970 rather then the 7970GE?

Because the deal offered by RS was for a HD 7970!

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=AT-H7970CB

 

[Elfear]

The Sapphire 7970 GHz edition deal is over at newegg, is back up to $459.99 ($439.99 after $20 rebate). That kinda sucks because that was a really good deal for those looking for a 7970 GHz edition.

That is too bad the deal is over. The Vapor-X is a great card.

The deal RS posted is almost as good. It's only a few percent slower than a GHz model for $360. I have that same card and it has unlocked voltage, a great cooler, and overclocks very well.

Because the deal offered by RS was for a HD 7970!

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=AT-H7970CB

Ah. Well to be fair that card is clocked at 1000Mhz while the stock card is at 925Mhz. It will perform closer to a true GHz card than a stock 7970. If you don't overclock and play with 8xAA, I can kinda see your point.

 

[tential]

Yes I must live in fantasy land.. its weird downunder here.

I never have issues with GPU vendor drivers. Clean install everytime a new GPU is put in, smooth sailing since my Rendition Verite and Voodoo.

As such, I will happily buy whatever brand that offers the best value.

Yes, this is true, but still, I find Nvidia to be better driver wise. I just got a 7950, and the driver difference with Nvidia is noticeable. The "Clean install" thing isn't necessary at all with Nvidia. Either is a reboot. Both are necessary with AMD (or definitely highly recommended I guess).

I just like my NVidia drivers better, and they're easier, but the price for AMD at the time was very good and I wanted to GPU mine.

 

[thilanliyan]

Yes, this is true, but still, I find Nvidia to be better driver wise. I just got a 7950, and the driver difference with Nvidia is noticeable. The "Clean install" thing isn't necessary at all with Nvidia. Either is a reboot. Both are necessary with AMD (or definitely highly recommended I guess).

I just like my NVidia drivers better, and they're easier, but the price for AMD at the time was very good and I wanted to GPU mine.

I disagree. Both nVidia and AMD driver installs have been painless for me for the last 3-4 generations at least. The last time I had a driver install problem was with a ATI All-in-Wonder card where I had to install the Creative SB drivers first before the AIW drivers or I'd get blue screens...this could of course be attributed to the Creative drivers as well. Since then I have not had any driver install problems. As for issues once installed, I have had more with the nV 8800GTS 640 than any other card I owned. After that card I don't remember the last time I had any showstopper driver bugs from any camp and I've owned a 8800GT, 4870, GTX460, 6950, and 7950 since then.

 

[Carfax83]

Yeah but if they don't enable PhysX, are they really playing the game MAXED? Obviously they are not, and losing in graphics quality!! So why have an expensive GPU when you cant run games maxed out?

As has been said multiple times, you have AMD to blame for that, since AMD's stance is that they don't support proprietary standards...

And yet, they don't want to expend the resources into making Bullet physics more comparable to PhysX in terms of capability, performance and refinement.

 

[sushiwarrior]

Yes, this is true, but still, I find Nvidia to be better driver wise. I just got a 7950, and the driver difference with Nvidia is noticeable. The "Clean install" thing isn't necessary at all with Nvidia. Either is a reboot. Both are necessary with AMD (or definitely highly recommended I guess).

I just like my NVidia drivers better, and they're easier, but the price for AMD at the time was very good and I wanted to GPU mine.

Clean install is absolutely not necessary with AMD.

Not rebooting is just silly, if you're going to say another brand is better because you're going to have to reboot a FEW times... then does your opinion really matter for anyone else

I install AMD and Nvidia drivers almost constantly and both are equally simple - Nvidia has more annoying ads, and usually more UAC prompts, and tends to take a bit long. AMD allows the full uninstall option which is nice, and installs faster IMO with less UAC prompts, but has a tendency of saying it installed properly when there was an error. Both have been equally painless IMO.

 

[blackened23]

Regarding physx, I really don't see physx as a big deal in a purchasing decision, considering there's usually 1-2 titles per year utilizing it. 2011 only had one title: Batman: AC IIRC. It's something I could easily live without. It's a nice perk, sure, but it's not a make it or break it type of thing - it wasn't a decision making factor whatsoever when I bought my 780 or the 680s prior to that.

 

[ICDP]

Yes, this is true, but still, I find Nvidia to be better driver wise. I just got a 7950, and the driver difference with Nvidia is noticeable. The "Clean install" thing isn't necessary at all with Nvidia. Either is a reboot. Both are necessary with AMD (or definitely highly recommended I guess).

I just like my NVidia drivers better, and they're easier, but the price for AMD at the time was very good and I wanted to GPU mine.

I found a clean install is the only way to ensure you don't get problems with either Nvidia or AMD. Going from AMD to Nvidia resulted in a total loss of MSAA ability in quite a few games. The only fix was to do a driver clean of all AMD and Nvidia software and start again.

Apart from that I do agree that Nvidia drivers have more useful options, such as Direct X Triple Buffering and the Render Ahead options. This isn't a big deal because RadeonPro does allow all options required.

 

[SirPauly]

Regarding physx, I really don't see physx as a big deal in a purchasing decision, considering there's usually 1-2 titles per year utilizing it.

Borderlands 2, Hawken, PlanetSide2, WarFrame, Metro Last Light with Rise of the Triad, Witcher 3 and Batman Origins to look forward to.

My constructive nit-pick was content but as of late some momentum with PhysX SDK 3+

 

[Silverforce11]

I think it should be good in Witcher 3 and Origins. PhysX is horrible in Hawken, to a point where it was beyond distracting and actually interfered with vision, which for a fast FPS, is a no no. Planetside 2 was beyond bad.. I still haven't tried MetroLL yet.

 

[f1sherman]

I think it should be good in Witcher 3 and Origins. PhysX is horrible in Hawken, to a point where it was beyond distracting and actually interfered with vision

smoke, fire, dust everwyhere, debris falling and rocket in face might do just that

but those PhysX sparks are getting old a bit.

Anyway it looks like Nvidia is not willing to roll over, and TWIMTBP looks stronger than ever.

 

[ocre]

I disagree. Both nVidia and AMD driver installs have been painless for me for the last 3-4 generations at least. The last time I had a driver install problem was with a ATI All-in-Wonder card where I had to install the Creative SB drivers first before the AIW drivers or I'd get blue screens...this could of course be attributed to the Creative drivers as well. Since then I have not had any driver install problems. As for issues once installed, I have had more with the nV 8800GTS 640 than any other card I owned. After that card I don't remember the last time I had any showstopper driver bugs from any camp and I've owned a 8800GT, 4870, GTX460, 6950, and 7950 since then.

Carmack disagrees with you
http://www.pcgamesn.com/why-nvidia-carmack-s-choice

cheese:

hahahaha.
What a masterpiece, LOL!!!!

anyway, from the article

Carmack thought of AMD’s range of hardware. “On a hardware level, AMD is often as good as or better than Nvidia, but Nvidia drivers are consistently superior.” explained Carmack.

Just saying..........





i thought it was pretty funny.


We need to be careful when posting images that at the very least bear a strong resemblence to inflammatory memes. I know that that was not your intention -- just sayin'...
-- stahlhart

 

[tential]

Clean install is absolutely not necessary with AMD.

Not rebooting is just silly, if you're going to say another brand is better because you're going to have to reboot a FEW times... then does your opinion really matter for anyone else

I install AMD and Nvidia drivers almost constantly and both are equally simple - Nvidia has more annoying ads, and usually more UAC prompts, and tends to take a bit long. AMD allows the full uninstall option which is nice, and installs faster IMO with less UAC prompts, but has a tendency of saying it installed properly when there was an error. Both have been equally painless IMO.

I simply said I prefer Nvidia driver install/drivers. Not that I chose a brand/a brand is better....

No need to get defensive.

 

[blackened23]

i thought it was pretty funny.

I just hope Carmack releases an actual game that isn't a complete embarrassment and mere shadow of what his former games used to be. You know, games that aren't colossal turds like Rage with textures more fit to belong on the Nintendo 64.

Straight from the N64:

 

[UaVaj]

The Sapphire 7970 GHz edition deal is over at newegg, is back up to $459.99 ($439.99 after $20 rebate). That kinda sucks because that was a really good deal for those looking for a 7970 GHz edition.

like all smokin deal. short lived. good for those who took advantage of it at $350 after MIR.

now $440 after MIR. ouch!

at this price point. 770 all day any day. and 4gb on top of that. and forget that "iffy" MIR.

 

[Elfear]

like all smokin deal. short lived. good for those who took advantage of it at $350 after MIR.

now $440 after MIR. ouch!

at this price point. 770 all day any day. and 4gb on top of that. and forget that "iffy" MIR.

The Sapphire Dual-X is a great card and is only $370AR. Cheapest 4GB 770 (Zotac) is $450. Cheapest good 4GB 770 (Gigabyte Windforce) is $460. Not sure why you'd say "all day any day".

 

[UaVaj]

dual x is 950/1000 gpu n 5700/5800 memory. now for $376 MIR.
not bad. however not the same as GHZ.

vapor x is 1000/1050 gpu n 6000 memory. was for $350 MIR. now $440 MIR.
this "was" one smokin deal.

-----

7970 vapor-x 3gb $440 MIR vs 770 windforce 4gb $466
no brainer decision. 770 all day any day.

7970 dual-x 3gb $376 MIR vs 770 winforce 2gb $406 vs 770 windforce 4gb $466
single gpu = 7970
multi gpu = 770

 

[SirPauly]

To blanket price/performance based on cherry picking and temporary deals isn't very objective!

 

[RussianSensation]

To blanket price/performance based on cherry picking and temporary deals isn't very objective!

Since we have already seen HD7970 1Ghz for $310 and HD7970 GE for $350 and the deals lasted quite a while, current prices for GTX770/7970GE are overpriced. Let's set aside 770 for a moment. HD7970GE's MSRP was $499 when it launched June 21, 2012 but when after-market 7970GEs launched in July 2012, they went for $469-479. Fast forward and 1 year later, the same cards are going for $395-440. Irrespective of 770's pricing right now, HD7970 and 7970GE are overpriced. Taking 770 and 7970GE together and comparing them to 7950/GTX760, they are still overpriced.

Whoever jumped on that 1Ghz 7970 deal is the real winner. Based on Xbitlabs' recent review:

"Overall, the GeForce GTX 770 is an average 3% faster than the Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition across all the tests." ~ Source

That 1Ghz 7970 with slightly underclocked memory is another 3% slower, which means just 6% slower than 770 for $310.

one of the many reason I personally will not go AMD is that they seem to have issues with older games.

Ironically HD7970GE is better in OpenGL games than GK104. Many older games are OpenGL games. As far as Far Cry goes, what issues did you have with AMD cards? The weak performance in FC titles was attributed to HD4870/4890 series, especially Far Cry 2. That has been fixed a long time ago with HD5870 and forward.

You didn't mention what happens to NV's performance in "games no one plays". What I mean is less popular games in your Stream library. On the driver side, the argument would be a lot more valid for NV if their cards actually performed well in random games "no one plays". The opposite is true. NV's cards lose badly in non-AAA games. Why is that?

Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon
Dark
HL Black Mesa
Carrier Command
The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing
Dead Island Raptide
Neverwiner Dungeons & Dragons
Warframe
Firefall

AMD's 7970GE continues to outperform 680 without any trouble outside of the most popular games and by large margins. That tells me NV primaril spends their time focusing on the most popular games while AMD's drivers are more consistent overall. What happens if I want to play a game no one heard about? It gives me more comfort that AMD's 7970GE will trounce 680/770. This isn't based on intuition by real world gaming performance in less popular titles where 680 trails by a long shot.

Real world data shows AMD's cards perform faster in less popular games NV doesn't specifically target. Add to that latest GE titles where NV needs 780 to compete (GRID 2 and COH2) and I don't really understand why people keep saying NV's drivers are better. Scientific evidence shows otherwise. Stating NV's control panel looks better or complaining about restarting the PC after a complete driver install is one of the weakest arguments for NV's superior drivers. Most people prefer NV's drivers since they have used NV for the last 10 years and are reluctant to switch. NV already had 2 drivers that killed their GPUs. So much for their superior driver record.

 

[SirPauly]

Since we have already seen HD7970 1Ghz for $310 and HD7970 GE for $350 and the deals lasted quite a while, current prices for GTX770/7970GE are overpriced. Let's set aside 770 for a moment. HD7970GE's MSRP was $499 when it launched June 21, 2012 but when after-market 7970GEs launched in July 2012, they went for $469-479. Fast forward and 1 year later, the same cards are going for $395-440. Irrespective of 770's pricing right now, HD7970 and 7970GE are overpriced. Taking 770 and 7970GE together and comparing them to 7950/GTX760, they are still overpriced.

Whoever jumped on that 1Ghz 7970 deal is the real winner. Based on Xbitlabs' recent review:

"Overall, the GeForce GTX 770 is an average 3% faster than the Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition across all the tests." ~ Source

That 1Ghz 7970 with slightly underclocked memory is another 3% slower, which means just 6% slower than 770 for $310.

Imho,

There are OC HD 770's as well that offer more out-of-box performance than reference designs.

Temporary deals are nice for shrewd shoppers, with nice timing, but to blanket price performance based on this isn't very objective. Clearly price/performance for the GTX 770 and GTX 760 is not a detriment when compared to the competition -- ironically, if anything, it is a strength over-all.