AMD 6900 reviews thread (UPDATED)

[Vdubchaos]

So who won...

Nvidia AND AMD

BOTH

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Ha, I just noticed Techspot and Legionhardware are using the same exact graphics of the same exact games with the same exact numbers. Very... weird. Well, not exact. The color schemes are slightly different.

Compare Catalyst 10-10 or 10-11 to Cat 10-12. Performance dropped for the HD 5870 and was mixed for HD 6870 (mostly up). So i would say they got their "aggressive optimizations" under control and they got their driver for HAWX 2 fixed. There is a big improvement for ALL Radeons with Cat 10-12 over the last driver set.

Since the architecture is improved, especially DX11 games will show the most improvement over their last generation.

And Nvidia also has room for improvement with their drivers; possibly less than AMD, but the performance delta will not change that much

I'm mostly concerned with how the 6900 performs over the 5870 (and 6870, to an extent). Across several reviews there are times where the 6970 shows a really big improvement, and then there are games which show no or minimal improvement. I would have expected Hawx 2, a DX11 game, to be one to show a big improvement. But across various reviews, yours included, there isn't much of a performance jump from a 6870 to a 6970. Now I wonder if this is a driver issue, or as I understand it maybe there is still some kind of hardware bottleneck somewhere.

In any case, these kinds of results for the 6970 are impressive over the 6870 and 5870:
http://www.techspot.com/review/348-amd-radeon-6970/page10.html

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

So who won...

No one. We are left with old tech that's been refreshed and we're paying a premium too. 5XX series and 69XX series is basically like 8800->9800.

 

[apoppin]

I'm mostly concerned with how the 6900 performs over the 5870 (and 6870, to an extent). Across several reviews there are times where the 6970 shows a really big improvement, and then there are games which show no or minimal improvement. I would have expected Hawx 2, a DX11 game, to be one to show a big improvement. But across various reviews, yours included, there isn't much of a performance jump from a 6870 to a 6970. Now I wonder if this is a driver issue, or as I understand it maybe there is still some kind of hardware bottleneck somewhere.

In any case, these kinds of results for the 6970 are impressive over the 6870 and 5870:
http://www.techspot.com/review/348-amd-radeon-6970/page10.html

Of course, the delta between the HD 6xx0 series and the HD 5000 series will grow wider as AMD improves on their drivers. i believe i noted several occasions where it appeared that drivers are holding back the 69x0s.

There is less of a HW bottleneck with HD 6900 than HD 6800 and the 5000 series is getting a bit outdated for DX11 games.

As to HAWX 2, *all* of the Radeons got a solid boost over the previous drivers. However, i need to take a closer look at the DX11 shadows. i think there will be further rebalancing and more significant improvement for 69x0 series.

 

[notty22]

Well there are alot of reviews that put the gtx 570/6970 pretty even.
The AMD cards in some reviews pull the same or more power and same with temps.
IMO, it seems this is the epitome of 40nm, as good as it can get from different engineering approaches/ teams.
Charlie at SA has a technical accounting of Cayman, of course he's beating the drum how AMD is making money and Nvidia can't.
Some things never change

 

[Wreckage]

Charlie at SA has a technical accounting of Cayman, of course he's beating the drum how AMD is making money and Nvidia can't.

Of course when you look at the financial statements for both companies you can see how he's full of poop. Charlie hurts AMD more than he helps.

 

[apoppin]

Well there are alot of reviews that put the gtx 570/6970 pretty even.
The AMD cards in some reviews pull the same or more power and same with temps.
IMO, it seems this is the epitome of 40nm, as good as it can get from different engineering approaches/ teams.
Charlie at SA has a technical accounting of Cayman, of course he's beating the drum how AMD is making money and Nvidia can't.
Some things never change

They are pretty even. In my performance summary you can set the GTX 570 alongside the HD 6970 and check out the stronger performance of the Radeon in older games and at high resolution against the GTX 570's stronger performance in DX11 games (generally, depending on tessellation)

Charlie? Charlie ??

The same guy who said that Fermi was broken and completely unmanufacturable on the 40 nm process?
^_^

Evidently he was saying what AMD really believed about GF100; they did not expect GF110 and were putting HD 6970 (originally) against a GTX "485" with 512 shaders.

 

[solofly]

Wreckage,
I saw you wanted Just Cause 2 for cheap. Here's you chance...

http://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/8190/

I paid 30 bucks for this game a week ago and it's worth every penny, enough said. Don't miss out, one day left.

Sorry guys about my off topic post...

 

[Mistwalker]

Nvidia AND AMD

BOTH

Honestly, this.

The 580 is an atrocious value (especially at $500) but if you want the best single-GPU performance, Nvidia has it.

But the real price/performance victories start with the the 570, which competes well with the 6970--for less money!--and offers SLI as an upgrade. Then AMD delivers incredible CF scaling and the 6850/6950 CF combos are arguably the best options in the lineup for any but the most die-hard single-card-only user.

The 6850/6950/570/460 are all great values IMHO (and have also brought fantastic short term deals on 5800 and GTX 470 cards). With these cards primarily shining in multi-card setups it can end up seeming underwhelming for numbers jockeys, but we consumers have solid options from either camp at several price points.

Factor in the upcoming 560 and 6990 and I think there is room for prices to come down as competition heats up.

 

[Zargon]

what deals on 58xx?

they were better last week than they are now as far as I can find...

 

[apoppin]

what deals on 58xx?

they were better last week than they are now as far as I can find...

GTX 480 and HD 5870 are EoL'd .. pretty soon there will be no deals on them left.

This launch will clear all of the old stock

 

[Termie]

I've decided already, getting a 6970 by the end of this month

Really? Compared to your 5850 at 5870 clocks, you'll only have a ~30% improvement:

"Then there's the card that the Radeon HD 6970 is effectively replacing, the HD 5870. Based on our 1920x1200 benchmark data across 14 games the Radeon HD 6970 was on average 24% faster" - http://www.techspot.com/review/348-amd-radeon-6970/page14.html

You'd get much more from a crossfire setup, and that's what I'm considering. With the HD5850 now going for $180, I really don't see how a $370 HD6970 makes much sense. There's no way you'll come out ahead money-wise or performance-wise.

This brings me to my next point - I think it's kind of shame that jumps in generations now only net us 25% performance. Even the 4870 to 5870 was better than that, although far short of the 100% improvement that the specs would have suggested. The 5870 at its original $380 MSRP was a game-changer, no doubt. The 6970 is not, at the same price.

 

[Wreckage]

Wreckage,
I saw you wanted Just Cause 2 for cheap. Here's you chance...

http://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/8190/

I paid 30 bucks for this game a week ago and it's worth every penny, enough said. Don't miss out, one day left.

Sorry guys about my off topic post...

Yeah I bought it 2 days ago thanks for the heads up though.

It's not totally offtopic, this game was benchmarked on these cards and people who get these cards should check this game out.

 

[Termie]

what deals on 58xx?

they were better last week than they are now as far as I can find...

GTX 480 and HD 5870 are EoL'd .. pretty soon there will be no deals on them left.

This launch will clear all of the old stock

The 5870 went up in price, probably in part because it performs so well against the more expensive 6950. The 5850 has continued to go down in price. It's now solidly in the $180AR range at Newegg, and thus the best value under $200.

 

[Axon]

I give the slight edge to Nvidia in the high end market, given that the 570 is so good. The $300 price point is clearly all AMD's for now. We'll see what the GTX 560 is all about. I would think nvidia will price that card there, or put it around $220-250 and put a 565 model at $300.

 

[DaveSimmons]

This brings me to my next point - I think it's kind of shame that jumps in generations now only net us 25% performance. Even the 4870 to 5870 was better than that, although far short of the 100% improvement that the specs would have suggested. The 5870 at its original $380 MSRP was a game-changer, no doubt. The 6970 is not, at the same price.

I blame them being stuck at 40nm longer than expected, so the 6xxx and nv 5xx didn't have a shrink to help with lower power and higher speed.

Still, it's about 2.5 years since the 48xx launch and the 6950 offers a very nice improvement over the 4870-512MB that cost me $300 back then, while using a little less power under load.

Who won? Not AMD or nv, we did. Hurray for competition.

 

[Mistwalker]

what deals on 58xx?

they were better last week than they are now as far as I can find...

They do come and go, some of them as recent as four days ago, but as the 5800 cards are phased out I imagine there will be a couple more deals before they're totally gone.

No one. We are left with old tech that's been refreshed and we're paying a premium too. 5XX series and 69XX series is basically like 8800->9800.

I suppose it's all perspective, but keeping in mind everyone was stuck on 40nm and the 6900 series hasn't had a chance to stretch its legs quite yet...

The 8800 was the card to get, period, nothing else touched it. Now with fantastic SLI/CF scaling from both camps, what we have this time around are options, and many of them are quite decent. Also: long overdue improvements to cooling/noise.

The 6970 is probably the only loser as it didn't live up to the (possibly inflated) expectations of many. While it would be nice to see more massive jumps from one generation to the next, what they squeezed from the same manufacturing process is impressive, and with consoles directing PC game development your average gamer doesn't even need more than a 460 anyway.

I do hope we are wow'd by Antilles, or our next chance for jaw-dropping improvements will have to wait for 28nm.

 

[notty22]

They are pretty even. In my performance summary you can set the GTX 570 alongside the HD 6970 and check out the stronger performance of the Radeon in older games and at high resolution against the GTX 570's stronger performance in DX11 games (generally, depending on tessellation)

Charlie? Charlie ??

The same guy who said that Fermi was broken and completely unmanufacturable on the 40 nm process?
^_^

Evidently he was saying what AMD really believed about GF100; they did not expect GF110 and were putting HD 6970 (originally) against a GTX "485" with 512 shaders.

Reading the forum at SA, some of the regulars are reacting like they are in denial. Some of them seem knowledgeable so I was curious what might be said. It seems some have latched on to most reviewers using 'wrong' drivers. They point to a revision number, or term used in the setup comments and scream the reviewer screwed up.

I'm sorry, I have to believe that AMD got A the review card to the reviewer, and B clearly tells them what driver to use.
Is this mostly true ?

 

[Zargon]

GTX 480 and HD 5870 are EoL'd .. pretty soon there will be no deals on them left.

This launch will clear all of the old stock

yeah, people keep saying the 5870 just price dropped...but did it? I dont see it being cheaper :biggrin:


edit: termie: good call on the 5850, doesnt suit my needs so I had ignored it

 

[Janooo]

Yeah I bought it 2 days ago thanks for the heads up though.

It's not totally offtopic, this game was benchmarked on these cards and people who get these cards should check this game out.

What's interesting is that at high res and settings 6970 is faster than 580.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...899-amd-radeon-hd-6970-hd-6950-review-24.html

 

[Mistwalker]

What's interesting is that at high res and settings 6970 is faster than 580.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...899-amd-radeon-hd-6970-hd-6950-review-24.html

The power of 2GB vs 1.5GB?

 

[Zargon]

that would be my guess


wonder what my 4850x2 would go for now....100 bucks?

 

[apoppin]

Reading the forum at SA, some of the regulars are reacting like they are in denial. Some of them seem knowledgeable so I was curious what might be said. It seems some have latched on to most reviewers using 'wrong' drivers. They point to a revision number, or term used in the setup comments and scream the reviewer screwed up.

I'm sorry, I have to believe that AMD got A the review card to the reviewer, and B clearly tells them what driver to use.
Is this mostly true ?

AMD made sure the reviewers got the drivers right .. there are only two sets - the preview for the CCC and the release drivers for the HD 69x0

Heck, they even sent out a memo to make sure the toggle switch was in the right position; my HD 6950 arrived set on an earlier BIOS

i am sure that some fans will believe that every reviewer got green-taped "slow cards" and that a "magic" driver will fix it next month so that it will beat up on the GTX 580.
:biggrin:

 

[Wreckage]

What's interesting is that at high res and settings 6970 is faster than 580.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...899-amd-radeon-hd-6970-hd-6950-review-24.html

Well having 2gb of memory helps, it also does not say whether they had the CUDA effects for JC2 enabled or not.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950-cayman,2818-14.html

 

[Stoneburner]

Both cards are excellent values, but AMD really screwed up by comparing this to r300. U invoke a legend you better live up to it.